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Thread: Oops, darn it...

  1. #1721
    www.SkupTech.com mike mcs repair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Based on the violent nature of that video, I am quite surprised and happy they were able to get out.

    all GOOD, to all bad in a split second......

  2. #1722
    BC12D-4-85's Avatar
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    Same old video but does show anyone can do it - hole or not: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EzPSjBPAlMQ

    Gary

  3. #1723

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oliver View Post
    Grabbed this image;

    Attachment 49896
    I had not managed to get that good of a look at the damage spot...that is truly spooky, as was already said.

  4. #1724
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    Quote Originally Posted by BC12D-4-85 View Post
    Same old video but does show anyone can do it - hole or not: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EzPSjBPAlMQ

    Gary
    There are many lessons to be learned in looking at this video for those who pay attention. Water is a powerful force. Glassy water operations are not to be treated casually.
    N1PA

  5. #1725
    www.SkupTech.com mike mcs repair's Avatar
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    Wrong fuel added before crash of Alaska forestry plane that injured pilot and 3 firefighters, NTSB says



    https://www.adn.com/alaska-news/avia...ers-ntsb-says/

  6. #1726
    BC12D-4-85's Avatar
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    Wrong fuel....lots of chances to question that one. It even smells different when mixed.

    Gary
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  7. #1727

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    Isn’t Jet A a type of “aviation gasoline?”

  8. #1728
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    This type of accident happens all too frequently. If pilots would just observe the refueling operation, I believe 99% of these accidents could be prevented.

  9. #1729

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Heinrich View Post
    Isn’t Jet A a type of “aviation gasoline?”
    Jet fuel is kerosene based not gasoline.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

  10. #1730

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    Quote Originally Posted by dgapilot View Post
    Jet fuel is kerosene based not gasoline.


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    I’m guessing that an 18 year old kid pumping gas for the first time on a flight line wouldn’t know that.

    And after 45 years of looking I still haven’t been able to find that bucket of pneumatic fluid or the 20 feet of flight line my sergeant sent me after.
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  11. #1731

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    I would not simply accuse an 18YO of being one who might pump wrong fuel. Recently I am seeing more than a few 40 somethings that have no clue what fuel would go in what plane. Around here the payscale is so low that the quality of line workers is not real high above the tarmac.
    The 100LL can be self serve which most GA pilots will do for the price break. The Jet A is full serve only which leaves the duty to someone who did not get trained well and may have never been near an airplane anytime in their life. They are here cause it is a job. More than a few of these guys have no clue about what powers a plane and they generally were not outside when the plane taxied in so they never heard what it sounded like. Being there is a very good chance most of these hires might have never had there feet off the ground such as climbing a ladder might not offer them any comfort resulting that they will not go up high enough so they will see the markings around the filler.
    Just think, one of these untrained workers being confronted with single point fueling for the first time. To me that is a frightening prospect. It happens.
    I see a very high turnover at our local FBO, the girls seem to be much more aware of their duty as well as stay around longer.
    Regards, Charlie
    Super Coupe E-AB build in process
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  12. #1732

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    Painting with a pretty broad brush here, not all 18 year olds, or 40 year olds, or 60 year olds are the same.. This is a problem as old as when turbines were first introduced. I’m responsible for what fuel is put in my airplane.
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  13. #1733
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    Quote Originally Posted by mam90 View Post
    Painting with a pretty broad brush here, not all 18 year olds, or 40 year olds, or 60 year olds are the same.. This is a problem as old as when turbines were first introduced. I’m responsible for what fuel is put in my airplane.
    Agreed! Big difference between dragging the hose to your own airplane and walking away while 'the truck' comes out and fills it for you.
    Way to many human variables in the world. Remember the campaign to remove the 'Turbo' decals from turbocharged piston engine nacelles because it was to much like the word 'turbine'?

    Web
    Life's tough . . . wear a cup.
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  14. #1734
    BC12D-4-85's Avatar
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    Note the NTSB prelim re Forestry plane fueling: https://app.ntsb.gov/pdfgenerator/Re...relim&IType=LA

    Maybe both involved were unsure what Prist is used for and what Jet A means.

    Gary

  15. #1735

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    Quote Originally Posted by wireweinie View Post
    Agreed! Big difference between dragging the hose to your own airplane and walking away while 'the truck' comes out and fills it for you.
    Way to many human variables in the world. Remember the campaign to remove the 'Turbo' decals from turbocharged piston engine nacelles because it was to much like the word 'turbine'?

    Web
    Yes, I remember when those decals were being pulled. If I remember correctly, USAIG was providing free 100 octane only fuel port decals as part of that campaign. Humans will always be the biggest variable for sure.
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  16. #1736
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    Hey, if it could happen to Bob Hoover......just sayin.

    MTV
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  17. #1737

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    I’ve always been one of the “it CAN happen to me” guys... mainly because a lot of it has....
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  18. #1738

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    Not exactly a NTSB report but we can learn from other countries as well. The link below is to a Dutch midair between two Supercubs while training for formation flying. Sad and tragic outcome for the pilot and passenger in one of the planes. The picture gives a strong indication as to what happened.

    https://www.onderzoeksraad.nl/en/page/14562/mid-air-collision-two-piper-super-cubs-oudemolen-near-willemstad-21


    The Dutch accident website is good; easy to navigate and you can subscribe for updates in individual accidents. As a benchmark, it is interesting to see that accidents over 2 to 3 years old can still be in “Investigate” status.
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  19. #1739
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    Super Cub & Beaver mid-air near Fairbanks today.

    Tragic

    https://mustreadalaska.com/plane-cra...ep-gary-knopp/
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  20. #1740
    www.SkupTech.com mike mcs repair's Avatar
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    https://www.adn.com/alaska-news/avia...tna-ntsb-says/


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  21. #1741
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    Quote Originally Posted by tedwaltman1 View Post
    Super Cub & Beaver mid-air near Fairbanks today.

    Tragic

    https://mustreadalaska.com/plane-cra...ep-gary-knopp/

    Not even close to fairbanks, it was in Soldotna

  22. #1742
    www.SkupTech.com mike mcs repair's Avatar
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    https://mustreadalaska.com/confirmed...h-in-soldotna/


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  23. #1743
    www.SkupTech.com mike mcs repair's Avatar
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    https://www.ktuu.com/app/2020/07/31/...h-in-soldotna/


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  24. #1744
    www.SkupTech.com mike mcs repair's Avatar
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    https://www.ktuu.com/app/2020/07/31/...h-in-soldotna/


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  25. #1745
    BC12D-4-85's Avatar
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    Hi wing - low wing? Sad and it's only July.

    Gary

  26. #1746
    Scooter7779h's Avatar
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    It was a SuperCub and a Beaver. Both high wing. News has wrong N number. Still sad.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	midair_7-31-20.jpg 
Views:	149 
Size:	194.9 KB 
ID:	50275



    Quote Originally Posted by BC12D-4-85 View Post
    Hi wing - low wing? Sad and it's only July.

    Gary
    =========
    PA-12 fan

  27. #1747
    BC12D-4-85's Avatar
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    Crazy hip shooting news sources...NTSB (now FAA) as quoted first it was an Aztec and Beaver (hence my comment low vs his wing), now it's (maybe) a PA-12 and Beaver. Either way a bad deal for all.

    Gary
    Last edited by BC12D-4-85; 07-31-2020 at 09:07 PM.
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  28. #1748

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    Clint Johnson (NTSB); you could not ask for a more consummate, knowledgeable professional. We are fortunate to have him heading our Northern NTSB and trying to help us all.

  29. #1749

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    This is a video from yesterday of Carbon Cub nose over in a river. The pilot really takes full responsibility and dissected his mistakes which is great. A lot can be learned. For what it’s worth, the production quality of the video looks great.

    https://youtu.be/QJrVUZKcxrU

  30. #1750
    BC12D-4-85's Avatar
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    Why land on water with tires? I did it a few times with a C-185 on 8:50's only because the water rose up on a 600' strip and I had a camp and crew to evacuate. Learned my lesson but given a choice or "hold my beer" You Tubes, why?

    Gary

  31. #1751

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    Quote Originally Posted by BC12D-4-85 View Post
    Why land on water with tires? I did it a few times with a C-185 on 8:50's only because the water rose up on a 600' strip and I had a camp and crew to evacuate. Learned my lesson but given a choice or "hold my beer" You Tubes, why?

    Gary
    He didn’t try landing on water. He had a takeoff and loss of power due to incorrect fuel selector setting as a result of not following his checklist. I think it is great to see this and a diagnosis from the person who causing. Checklists and procedures need to be followed. Distraction is always a problem.

    How many of the accidents mentioned in this thread were due to distraction or not following checklists? Possibly very many...

  32. #1752
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    I was pleasantly surprised to see Cory publish this and take full responsiblity. I had seen the raw footage a few days ago and wondered how he would handle it.

    I have met so many accident / incident pilots who blame everything and everybody else including the FAA on their accident and never take responsibility for the role they played in their event. It's definitilely one of the "hazardous attitudes".

    This kind of thing was the crux of why Steve Pierce wanted to do the "Stuff Happens" video on YouTube - "fun" requires even greater attention to detail than point A to point B. If you have not watched Steve's program, it is here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwcUfuTgXEE

    sj
    "Often Mistaken, but Never in Doubt"
    ------------------------------------------
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  33. #1753
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    I think Cory saw all the You Tube views we got with that video and nosed his airplane over to cash in on the new trend.
    Steve Pierce

    Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects.
    Will Rogers

  34. #1754

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    Not a Super Cub, but we had two SEATs in a mid-air out here 2 days ago. Two fatals.
    https://www.ktvn.com/story/42435299/two ... ng-efforts
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  35. #1755

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    Quote Originally Posted by slowjunk View Post
    This is a video from yesterday of Carbon Cub nose over in a river. The pilot really takes full responsibility and dissected his mistakes which is great. A lot can be learned. For what it’s worth, the production quality of the video looks great.

    https://youtu.be/QJrVUZKcxrU
    Im trying to wrap my head around the fuel starvation situation as presented here.
    Obviously the engine quit from lack of fuel, but “air bubbles in the system from the fuel pump” thing does not make sense.
    Id like to see how the system was plumbed. I think there’s more to the story..
    Cory, as well as other popular “YouTube” pilots, have often times demonstrated their complete lack of mechanical knowledge with regard to their aircraft.
    Not that you need to be an A&P to fly an aircraft, but basic systems knowledge, especially for off airport flying, should be right up there with flying skills.
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  36. #1756
    AkPA/18's Avatar
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    Never Plumb into the line going to the fuel valve. Always plumb into the wing tank or it will do exactly what it did.

    Edit. This post is not directed at Cory and I hate to see bent airplanes. It is just information for anyone else out there that has their belly tank plumbing going to the fuel valve line.
    Last edited by AkPA/18; 08-01-2020 at 11:47 AM.
    http://thrustline.com/

    Takeoffs are optional--Landings are mandatory
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  37. #1757

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    Quote Originally Posted by AkPA/18 View Post
    Never Plumb in to the line going to the fuel valve. Always plumb into the tank or it will do exactly what it did.
    “air bubbles in the site tube” lead me to assume he had the aux fuel line “T”’d into the one of the site tube fittings on left tank. Which shouldn’t result in fuel starvation, unless left wing tank was empty.
    Air bubbles in the brain would result in someone plumbing directly into the fuel valve/system as you suggested. Guess we got a pretty good demonstration of how that can end up.
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  38. #1758
    www.SkupTech.com mike mcs repair's Avatar
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    The way we did them is to plumb into the top of site gauge then you can see that it’s pumping. Or not.


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  39. #1759
    AkPA/18's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike mcs repair View Post
    The way we did them is to plumb into the top of site gauge then you can see that it’s pumping. Or not.


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    By far the best way
    http://thrustline.com/

    Takeoffs are optional--Landings are mandatory

  40. #1760
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    I believed they plumbed into the main fuel line from the tank to the valve. Pump pressure exceeded head pressure and the pump was pushing air and the net result is caught on video. I reliable source that was there said they replicated the exact same scenario on the ground. Needs to be plumbed like Mike said then you see the fuel going into the tank and you know when it is all transferred or so i am told by one of those old high time fish spotter pilots.
    Steve Pierce

    Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects.
    Will Rogers
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