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Thread: Oops, darn it...

  1. #1361
    www.SkupTech.com mike mcs repair's Avatar
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    Oops, darn it...

    Slow and cold way to die...

    https://www.ktuu.com/content/news/NT...564177591.html

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  2. #1362
    www.SkupTech.com mike mcs repair's Avatar
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    better written version of events... https://www.ktva.com/story/41257209/...factual-report

  3. #1363
    BC12D-4-85's Avatar
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    Factual Report for N323KT DHC-2 8/4/18: https://app.ntsb.gov/pdfgenerator/Re...=HTML&IType=FA

    Investigation Docket: https://dms.ntsb.gov/pubdms/search/h...9AA0BBC3BC51DE

    If you have the time read the lengthy interview transcripts. There's an interesting ops onion getting peeled there: https://dms.ntsb.gov/pubdms/search/d...960&mkey=97999

    Gary
    Last edited by BC12D-4-85; 10-31-2019 at 10:25 PM.

  4. #1364
    www.SkupTech.com mike mcs repair's Avatar
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    good read

    .......All roads lead back to one company and that company dominates Alaska’s aviation environment in numerous ways, not all of them good. The list of Frontier Alaska/Era Alaska/Ravn Alaska/Ravn Air Group accidents and incidents is, frankly, staggering. In August 2008, a Piper Navajo crashed in Aniak and a Cessna 207 crashed in Kongiganek, and in October 2008, a Cessna 208 crashed in Bethel. In February 2009, a Navajo crashed in Nome, and in March, a Navajo crashed in Buckland. In January 2011, a Cessna 208 crashed in Kipnuk; in November 2011, a Cessna 207 crashed in Kwigillingok. In November 2012, a DeHavilland Dash 8 suffered an uncontrolled 5,000-foot descent over Soldotna, and in December 2012, a Cessna 208 crashed in Meykoryuk. In May 2013, a Cessna 207 crashed in Newtok; in October 2013, a Beech 1900 crashed in Homer; in November 2013, a Cessna 208 crashed in St. Marys and a Beechcraft 1900 crashed in Deadhorse. In April 2014, a Cessna 208 crashed in Kwethluk; in May 2014, a Cessna 208 crashed in Aniak. In August 2016, a Cessna 208 crashed in Russian Mission; and in October 2016, a Cessna 208 crashed in Togiak. In April 2018, a Cessna 208 crashed in Atqasuk; in October 2018 a Beechcraft 1900 crashed in Gambell. And in October 2019, the Saab 2000 crashed in Dutch Harbor....
    https://www.adn.com/opinions/2019/10...al-air-carrier

  5. #1365
    mvivion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike mcs repair View Post
    Thats quite a record, for sure. It always amazes me that these kinds of statistics don’t seem to effect passenger loads, even in villages where there are clearly other options.

    MTV

  6. #1366

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    Quote Originally Posted by mike mcs repair View Post
    “crashed” is used very loosely here- in my opinion, several of the listed incidents don’t meet the severity of “crash”... someone who doesn’t know better is going to read that and think every one of those was a wadded up heap, which is far from accurate..
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  7. #1367

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    I quit flying on Ravn. I probably averaged 40 flights a year with them for several years.

    I figured after all those flights incident free my time was up.

    No worse then AIA was with the twatters though.

  8. #1368

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    AAI... ah, those were the days.
    Mark
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  9. #1369

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex Clark View Post
    Courier Guy;
    Regis#: N201BJ
    Aircraft Make: MOONEY
    Aircraft Model: M20J
    LOCATION
    City: AMERICAN FALLS
    State: IDAHO

    Description: AIRCRAFT CRASHED UNDER UNKNOWN CIRCUMSTANCES IN A FIELD, AMERICAN FALLS, ID.
    INJURY DATA
    Total Fatal: 1
    Owner Name: WHEELER ROBERT J
    Sadly, only today did I find out that Robert J. Wheeler was “Jon Wheeler”, a hangar neighbor and treasurer of our hangar association. All of the press listed him as from California when in fact he lived in Massachusetts just south of the New Hampshire border and flew out of KASH. Rest In Peace Jon.
    Mark

  10. #1370

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    Sorry for your loss.
    Thanks mam90 thanked for this post

  11. #1371
    Alex Clark's Avatar
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    MTV ..
    It always amazes me that these kinds of statistics don’t seem to effect passenger loads, even in villages where there are clearly other options.
    They killed off the competition from Homer to Anchorage, so now we only have Ravn.... or drive the 225 mile road miles up to Anchorage and 225 road mile back home.

    When Grant was here for competition, the prices were much lower.
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  12. #1372
    Alex Clark's Avatar
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    BOUNDED ?????

    IDENTIFICATION
    Date: 02-NOV-19
    Time: 16:45:00Z
    Regis#: N718CC
    Aircraft Make: CUB CRAFTERS
    Aircraft Model: CC11
    Event Type: INCIDENT
    Highest Injury: NONE
    Aircraft Missing: No
    Damage: UNKNOWN
    LOCATION
    City: PALMYRA
    State: PENNSYLVANIA
    Country: UNITED STATES
    DESCRIPTION
    Description: AIRCRAFT BOUNDED ON LANDING WHICH CAUSED A PROP STRIKE, PALMYRA, PA.
    INJURY DATA
    Total Fatal: 0
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  13. #1373
    Alex Clark's Avatar
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    The old going through a fence with a J3 caper...

    Date: 28-OCT-19
    Time: 19:00:00Z
    Regis#: N7009H
    Aircraft Make: PIPER
    Aircraft Model: J3C`
    Event Type: ACCIDENT
    Highest Injury: NONE
    Aircraft Missing: No
    Damage: SUBSTANTIAL
    LOCATION
    City: GRAND BAY
    State: ALABAMA
    Country: UNITED STATES
    DESCRIPTION
    Description: AIRCRAFT LANDED HARD VEERED OFF RUNWAY AND WENT THROUGH A FENCE, GRAND BAY, AL.

  14. #1374

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    How does a small airline company with that kind of accident/incident record afford or even obtain flight insurance?
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  15. #1375
    www.SkupTech.com mike mcs repair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Heinrich View Post
    How does a small airline company with that kind of accident/incident record afford or even obtain flight insurance?
    Multiple company names and certificates....


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  16. #1376

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    Hell fellow aviators!
    My 180 Hp super Cub is about to be ready and flown for the First time sinne rapair!
    my question is What helmet would be good to use, when flying the First tour, and maybe later on. Im infocenter...
    Thanks Bill.Brine thanked for this post

  17. #1377

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    Quote Originally Posted by jokerswe2008 View Post
    Hell fellow aviators!
    My 180 Hp super Cub is about to be ready and flown for the First time sinne rapair!
    my question is What helmet would be good to use, when flying the First tour, and maybe later on. Im infocenter...
    If you don’t trust the work, don’t fly it. If you trust the work, you shouldn’t need a helmet! I used to run a repair station where all we did was insurance repairs. Never even considered wearing a helmet for test flights.


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  18. #1378
    www.SkupTech.com mike mcs repair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jokerswe2008 View Post
    Hell fellow aviators!
    My 180 Hp super Cub is about to be ready and flown for the First time sinne rapair!
    my question is What helmet would be good to use, when flying the First tour, and maybe later on. Im infocenter...
    The main thing that will kill you on one is reversed elevator cables. Triple check the movement against flying examples


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  19. #1379
    CenterHillAg's Avatar
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    Put your hand on the stick with your thumb standing straight up. Every control surface your thumb is “pointing” towards should be deflecting up when you point at it. Easy control check.
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  20. #1380
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    Test flew a rebuild on Thursday. Checked and double checked proper control deflection when I hooked them up, when I safetied them and as I taxied out. All was good.
    Steve Pierce

    Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects.
    Will Rogers

  21. #1381
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    Quote Originally Posted by CenterHillAg View Post
    Put your hand on the stick with your thumb standing straight up. Every control surface your thumb is “pointing” towards should be deflecting up when you point at it. Easy control check.
    Thumbs up controls up


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  22. #1382
    Gordon Misch's Avatar
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    My buddy and I discovered reversed ailerons on a restoration project. Several sets of knowledgeable eyes had missed it and it was a pain to rectify cuz the wings were covered (not a Cub).

    Bottom line for me, high speed taxi test of control response is a must.
    Gordon

    N4328M KTDO
    My SPOT: tinyurl.com/N4328M (case sensitive)
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  23. #1383
    www.SkupTech.com mike mcs repair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gordon Misch View Post
    My buddy and I discovered reversed ailerons on a restoration project. Several sets of knowledgeable eyes had missed it and it was a pain to rectify cuz the wings were covered (not a Cub).

    Bottom line for me, high speed taxi test of control response is a must.
    (reversed ailerons, not on a cub) seen that also, test flight crash on a neighbors plane with a "professional" test pilot..... same day one of my projects was to test fly..... postponed that test a day... bad juju happening ...

  24. #1384
    wireweinie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike mcs repair View Post
    (reversed ailerons, not on a cub) seen that also, test flight crash on a neighbors plane with a "professional" test pilot..... same day one of my projects was to test fly..... postponed that test a day... bad juju happening ...
    Sedan?

    Web
    Life's tough . . . wear a cup.

  25. #1385
    www.SkupTech.com mike mcs repair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wireweinie View Post
    Sedan?

    Web
    It was blue. Lots of snow. Saved pilot. Maybe. Don’t remember the brand. Maybe Stinson. 2006 or 7? at birchwood


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  26. #1386
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    Hmm? There seems to be TOO many of us who know of a crash caused by reversed controls. The original owner of my airport (Cranland) test flew a Swift with the ailerons reversed upside down into a sand pit. Fortunately for him he only broke a collar bone. That happened almost 60 years ago and made a big impression upon me. Every airplane which goes back together gets repeated control checks. And I still worry.
    N1PA
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  27. #1387

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    Decades back an IA I almost worked with, he was frustrated about a plane he was putting back together, he kept saying the elevator cables were the wrong length. He was so frustrated to the point when I stopped by and near instantly I said the cables were crossed, rigged backwards. After a few tries he was amendment the cables were NOT CROSSED!
    I could not get him to understand the cables themselves did need to cross each other to be rigged right, he claimed they had to be parallel.
    I never did visit him again nor do any projects with him. I think he either finally figured it out or someone got through to him since I never heard about it again.
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  28. #1388
    wireweinie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike mcs repair View Post
    It was blue. Lots of snow. Saved pilot. Maybe. Don’t remember the brand. Maybe Stinson. 2006 or 7? at birchwood


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    I think I know that one.

    Web
    Life's tough . . . wear a cup.

  29. #1389
    Eddie Foy's Avatar
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    Speaking of reversed controls. When I went thru my 69 c-180, I removed all of the bell cranks in the tail for the flight controls. I machined some new bushings for some of them. I was VERY careful to verify the correct movement of the elevator and rudder after reassembly. During taxi tests the plane was a beast to handle. It finally dawned on me that the tailwheel steering was reversed. That will happen if you put the bell crank in rotated 180 degrees. My IA didn't find it but he is pretty much useful only for signing off my work. When I re-installed the bell cranks, it handled like a dream as the tailwheel was not fighting the rudder. Feces occurs!
    "Put out my hand and touched the face of God!"
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  30. #1390

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    In the mid '80's, I was a Pterodactyl ultralight dealer, trainer, pilot, you name it. I had segued into the 'dac as before it came along I was a Manta hang glider dealer, trainer, etc., and the 'dac used the same exact wing, an innovative rigid wing, that folded for transport...., the best of both worlds. One farmer customer wanted one with the control stick on the right, and throttle on the left. The exact opposite of all the others (about 35 at that point) I had built and test flown. He was adamant, and as there was no extra hardware involved or extra labor to set it up that way I built it up the way he wanted and delivered it to his small town rural airport.

    My method of operation back then, was to deliver the fully assembled ultralight to my customer, and then test fly it for the first time in front of them, and also start their training. The stick being on the right wouldn't be any problem for me, I told him, a few seconds before the first liftoff and immediate pilot induced pitch oscillations combined with rapid throttle excursions. The damage to the landing gear was easily repaired, my customer relations took longer, he just couldn't understand how I could screw up that bad, knowing full well it would be opposite of what I was used to. This is something I think about any time I get anywhere near the flight controls (and I have major aileron mod coming up), once was enough.

  31. #1391

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  32. #1392
    www.SkupTech.com mike mcs repair's Avatar
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    https://www.alaskapublic.org/2019/11...vorable-winds/


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  33. #1393

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    You have to wonder how fast his "taxi" speed was...

    https://news4sanantonio.com/news/loc...ntonio-airport

  34. #1394
    BC12D-4-85's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike mcs repair View Post
    And Alaska Airlines still spins it as an incident (https://blog.alaskaair.com/alaska-ai...r-flight-3296/)

    "Nearly one month ago, PenAir Flight 3296 was involved in an incident when the aircraft overran the runway at Dutch Harbor, Alaska, which resulted in a loss of life and injuries to others onboard. Our thoughts remain with the those affected by this incident."

    Gary
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  35. #1395
    www.SkupTech.com mike mcs repair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BC12D-4-85 View Post
    And Alaska Airlines still spins it as an incident (https://blog.alaskaair.com/alaska-ai...r-flight-3296/)

    "Nearly one month ago, PenAir Flight 3296 was involved in an incident when the aircraft overran the runway at Dutch Harbor, Alaska, which resulted in a loss of life and injuries to others onboard. Our thoughts remain with the those affected by this incident."

    Gary
    didn't notice that..

    so not an "incident" by so many parameters

  36. #1396

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    Atta girl...
    Quote Originally Posted by Anne View Post
    You're welcome, everyone! But since I'm basically lazy, I hope y'all fly safe so I don't have to post many more of these reports.

    Anne.

  37. #1397

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    Me thinks, they've been allowed to get too big. RAVN, Penair, Haglund, Frontier? Too big for their britches and FAA oversight. They should be shut down with an accident record as they have...16 accidents in the last 10-15years? Some with fatalities? Come on!!! But...they're too big and they service all the villages.It would just be crazy if there was no operator to haul the food, the peeps, etc. They've gotten too big...Years ago, before Neil Burke carved up the mail, to anyone that had a certificate, there was only one operator out of Bethel...That was SEAIR...we had all the work...and I don't remember an accident record such as this. We had 13 twin otters, a sky van and some turbo beavers and other stuff.. we got the job done and with no bent metal or....
    Quote Originally Posted by mike mcs repair View Post

  38. #1398

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    Ohhh, you're cracking me up...AIA bad bad outfit...lots of good pilots came from there though...the ones that survived...
    Quote Originally Posted by StalledOut View Post
    I quit flying on Ravn. I probably averaged 40 flights a year with them for several years.

    I figured after all those flights incident free my time was up.

    No worse then AIA was with the twatters though.

  39. #1399

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    Checklist item: Are the controls free and CORRECT? In the heavy metal, some planes you can't see the ailerons, hence there are gauges to check for proper movement. All other airplanes it is visual...Don't just wiggle the controls without looking...Years ago, there were two beavers that took off in one week. One on floats, one on wheels. That winter there'd been an AD the operators had to inspect for with the ailerons...both pilots in the spring, Controls free and CORRECT? They obviously just wiggled the controls without looking...both died...
    Quote Originally Posted by mike mcs repair View Post
    The main thing that will kill you on one is reversed elevator cables. Triple check the movement against flying examples


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  40. #1400

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    [QUOTE=flywhatever;759540]Me thinks, they've been allowed to get too big. RAVN, Penair, Haglund, Frontier? Too big for their britches and FAA oversight. They should be shut down with an accident record as they have...16 accidents in the last 10-15years? Some with fatalities? Come on!!! But...they're too big and they service all the villages.It would just be crazy if there was no operator to haul the food, the peeps, etc. They've gotten too big...Years ago, before Neil Burke carved up the mail, to anyone that had a certificate, there was only one operator out of Bethel...That was SEAIR...we had all the work...and I don't remember an accident record such as this. We had 13 twin otters, a sky van and some turbo beavers and other stuff.. we got the job done and with no bent metal or....[/QUOT

    SEAIR......Al Gay........”The Pilots Pal”...
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