Oops, darn it...

[mvivion]

There has been documented discrepancies between AK maps and GPS position. But anyone out there in the weather or the dark (shudder) thinking they can pick their way through terrain by GPS is on a fools errand.

MTV

[BC12D-4-85]

I recall a few low WX events following cars on the highway in a Cub. It was an experiment at the time not to become routine.

Gary

[tempdoug]

There has been documented discrepancies between AK maps and GPS position. But anyone out there in the weather or the dark (shudder) thinking they can pick their way through terrain by GPS is on a fools errand.

MTV

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bIuPYWbHsjY i watch this one all the time.

[BC12D-4-85]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bIuPYWbHsjY i watch this one all the time.

What happened at the end? T&G or stop the SIM?

[CharlieN]

Not wanting to be overly critical,
Is that landing for real, he was high, fast very late to touch down and went off the end of the runway. Not sure I would be impressed by that flying.

[tempdoug]

Not wanting to be overly critical,
Is that landing for real, he was high, fast very late to touch down and went off the end of the runway. Not sure I would be impressed by that flying.

real or not, its just interesting.

[mvivion]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bIuPYWbHsjY i watch this one all the time.

That’s a pretty wide valley to descend into, compared to many in AK. 50 meters can get you dead in a lot of terrain.

MTV

[Eddie Foy]

We did approaches like that all the time at AA in South America. Weaving down the valleys, IMC, at night. That is one reason why I am day vfr only now.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bIuPYWbHsjY i watch this one all the time.

[Eddie Foy]

The film is obviously sped up.

Not wanting to be overly critical,
Is that landing for real, he was high, fast very late to touch down and went off the end of the runway. Not sure I would be impressed by that flying.

[windknot54]

Not wanting to be overly critical,
Is that landing for real, he was high, fast very late to touch down and went off the end of the runway. Not sure I would be impressed by that flying.

That is the instrument approach to NZQN - Queenstown, New Zealand. I'm pretty confident the aircraft landed safely.

[tempdoug]

That’s a pretty wide valley to descend into, compared to many in AK. 50 meters can get you dead in a lot of terrain.

MTV

then you wont get me on it.

[mam90]

Some pretty remarkable approaches out there these days.

[mike mcs repair]

lower the requirements, then blame the plane when you bend it & kill......

https://www.adn.com/alaska-news/avia...et-in-the-air/

[mike mcs repair]

Air ambulance dispatcher didn’t know 2 companies had already declined flight that turned deadly, report says

[BC12D-4-85]

NTSB: https://app.ntsb.gov/pdfgenerator/Re...=HTML&IType=FA

I wonder if the terrain was burned and blackened prior to the crash from this summer's fire? Might just be a local post crash fire in the picture, but if not the terrain may have been obscured.

Gary

[eskflyer]

Yes that terrain was very blackened prior to. from the wild fire this summer.

JP

[BC12D-4-85]

Hopefully someone took a pic from the air of the scene soon after. Maybe hard to tell what terrain was there if snow patches and darkened trees at night in limited vis.

Gary

[eskflyer]

In my mind , it does not matter what the scene looks like. The fact is a IFR aircraft flew into a trench VFR in IMC at night cant see the cloud bottoms / layers , IF it was too bad to go over the top DONT FREAKIN GO!

JP

[Gordon Misch]

The procedure is NA at night. I've heard of an unpublished workaround from a buddy who is - wouldn't ya know - a former Reeve Aleutian captain.

[mam90]

While I absolutely do not believe that Security has a serious culture problem, the following article shows that culture problems still exist.

https://www.verticalmag.com/news/nts...utm_content=V1

[amoxness]

Well this is disheartening news from the Girdwood pacer crash earlier this year. Significant alcohol impairment in the pilot/CFI (5.5 times the legal limit) and some impairment in the student pilot/owner (1.5 times the limit).

https://www.adn.com/alaska-news/avia...t-report-says/

[flywhatever]

This a real sad deal for Security. Some real good aviators over there. Because of this accident there inevitably will be a lot of questions and answering. But, additionally, there needs to be a spot light on the medivac service(s) that called around looking for an operator to operate the mission. I have been told by many pilots and flight nurses, that Providence etc, will call around to find an operator and will not tell the operator that other operators have declined the trip. This is so wrong. They are pushing the urgency solely for the $$$$$ and not the safety, obviously implied by the operator that turned the trip down. Three operators were called on for this trip to Seward, this late in the day.

[tempdoug]

i was personal to a med flight from minot, nd to minneapolis minn at night. tailwind. 45 minutes, it was needed. afterwards i seen the bill, wasnt cheap, this case insurance covered it. ive also heard of peoples insurance not covering any of it, breaking them, and most likely couldnt pay.they work there tails off to have insurance but they wont cover a medvac, something for everyone to look into, i know the state was looking into costs for medvacs and relation to insurance companys, medvacs, we need them, but to have someone get hurt doing it, man. so if a med flight has a non insured flight, with a life threatning need, how do they get paid? and if you have a state or government or insured backed flight do they prefer these more than the others. that was a couple of years ago the state brought that up at the legislature session, but never did hear what happened. at our local airport thats my top 3 priorities is medvac access 24/7, everything else we will get by, it will go along with the access. how do medvacs handle noninsured vs covered in your areas? they cant do a lot of non paid for flight and do insureds push them harder?? just asking.

[tempdoug]

wanted to add, i hate insurance companys, they go out of there way to tell you what your covered for, give out policys a inch thick on what your covered for, but nothing on whats not covered, you either have to try and guess the future and ask or be a pro at reading between the lines and taking the time to do it. this medflight deal is a big concern. look your insurance provider in the eyes and ask them if your covered for this or not, there not bashful at going after your cash. bottom line these air ambulance people do a heck of a job, and i wish them a very satisfying long life.

[tempdoug]

just had this happen but things turned out, not to bad.https://www.kfyrtv.com/content/news/...565618001.html

[hotrod180]

I was airlifted earlier this year from the Pt Townsend area to Seattle.
Airlift Northwest helicopter-- my first helo ride BTW but not much fun!
The bill was $30K. Yes, 30K-- for about a 40 mile flight.
The airplane owner's insurance covered it, but my own health plan does have medivac coverage.

BTW Airlift NW & other providers sell very reasonably priced medivac insurance.
What they don't really tell you, buried in the fine print it says that it is only to cover your deductible / copay--
your primary health insurance must have medivac coverage to begin with.

[cafi19]

wanted to add, i hate insurance companys, they go out of there way to tell you what your covered for, give out policys a inch thick on what your covered for, but nothing on whats not covered, you either have to try and guess the future and ask or be a pro at reading between the lines and taking the time to do it. this medflight deal is a big concern. look your insurance provider in the eyes and ask them if your covered for this or not, there not bashful at going after your cash. bottom line these air ambulance people do a heck of a job, and i wish them a very satisfying long life.

Actually, all insurance has conditions, exclusions and limitations. You DO need to read your policy BEFORE you need it so that you are informed, but I also tell people after an incident the first thing they should do is read the policy. Yes... insurance person here....but I understand the frustrations...especially in aviation insurance. So much less standardization than in other types.

cafi

[tempdoug]

my advice to people after a incident is to get a lawyer that knows insurance inside and out, theyve delt with issues, and dont say anything to anyone until then. theres adjusters carrying voice recorders, just beware. want to add, only if theres human flesh involved.

[Farmboy]

An unusual report of inflight breakup.

https://app.ntsb.gov/pdfgenerator/Re...=HTML&IType=FA


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[L18C-95]

The description seems similar to the quarter loop entry into a hammerhead turn. Although this is based on how the structure failed rather than a direct observation of the event. Not sure why going from around 3 1/2 or 4 G to around 0 G would result in a stabiliser failure. Pushing to - 2 to - 3 G would seem a more likely cause.


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[CharlieN]

Without more of that radar info I read this a bit differently.
Power on stall, plane enters into the stall, possibly a turn or two of a spin. Recovery in steep nose down with high power resulting in overspeed. Fear induced pullback of controls breaking the airframe.

[skywagon8a]

Mountainous terrain, clear air turbulence, overreacting to an upset? I've been in clear air turbulence at about 5500 feet over the Berkshire hills here in Massachusetts on a clear winter day in either my 180 or 185. It was a very unusual, uncomfortable feeling. It was not possible to determine what was happening. Just plain weird.

[CharlieN]

The only roll I have done in my C150 was over the Berkshires. Clear day, I had been getting bumped about some but nothing out of line for flying over some hills. Then the plane rolled better part of 90° and as much as I tried to right it I gave in and went with it. I was pleased I kept the nose attitude and not drop much if any altitude. Glad I did not have much stuff in the cabin.

[mike mcs repair]

An unusual report of inflight breakup.

https://app.ntsb.gov/pdfgenerator/Re...=HTML&IType=FA

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they fail to say what condition the prop and crank was in....
the one(only?) way to break the engine mounts off engine is a cracked crank(will over speed then as prop goes flat pitch and vibrate bad), or loose a chunk of blade....

[CharlieN]

It is interesting this has been on Kathryn's twice and this report and there is very little true information.
There is a mention of radar reported airspeed, but no heading nor altitude change.
I see no information about the engine/ prop. Where was it? As Mike brings up, condition, tell tales of failure. Did it throw a blade? Or was the prop on the engine and intact at impact?
For an NTSB final report that one is rather incomplete to the point it appears they did little to investigate this one.

[mike mcs repair]

And another medevac wreck. But with better outcome. https://www.ktuu.com/content/news/Pl...566493701.html someone forget to check fuel? Leave cap off???



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[mike mcs repair]

https://www.ktva.com/story/41493900/...medevac-alaska

SAME company charted it!

https://resolvemarine.com/wp-content...tus1-26-17.pdf

Unalaska looses another way in or out



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[mike mcs repair]

Kinda impressed!! not sure I'd send one to go take off and go fly home with only ONE wing damaged like that.... (I know it's been done with both wings cut off outboard of aileron bellcrank....)

pucker factor 10.... note the push pull rod for the aileron there... was probably exciting times till rest of aileron departed....

https://www.avweb.com/aviation-news/...uch-of-a-wing/

[skywagon8a]

Luuuuky! Long ago near here a Tri pacer was following the highway under some low clouds when the right wing caught the guy wire on a radio station tower. The wire broke off at one end and wrapped itself around the wing. The other end held. End of the road right then and there. I saw him fly by my house about ten minutes before the accident.

[CharlieN]

I liked when I read about that 172 the other day, He can fly.
Working a gas or oil line alone, writing down his notes and did not see the tower's cable. Flew that 10 miles or so without all the wing. I'd ride with him.