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Thread: Oops, darn it...

  1. #2681
    BC12D-4-85's Avatar
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    It appears they did the right thing and followed the north lake shore's terrain/vegetation...then turned south over the lake so close to the airport. Passing snow squall? I like to periodically look back from where I came when flying in flat light or with a featureless terrain like a lake nearby. If it closes in behind then the return options are reduced. There will be more why's from them soon enough.

    Gary

  2. #2682
    BC12D-4-85's Avatar
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    Now here's one to think about....an airline accident with no damage to the plane just a crew member. That must have hurt.

    https://www.asias.faa.gov/apex/f?p=1...ONOLULU,N832AA

    Gary
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  3. #2683
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    Quote Originally Posted by Troy Hamon View Post
    The rock island in the photos is not the big island on the map, but it must be nearby. Based solely on the appearance of the airplane and the lack of relevant accident tracks, it looks like the impact might have been directly into the rocks, with a debris field of pieces that came off and traveled over the snow. Amazing to have survivors if that is, in fact, what happened.
    That’s what looks to me as well. Might have slid into the snow, but hit the rock? Ouch, and agreed….amazing anyone survived.

    Someone is living right.

    MTV

  4. #2684
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    https://www.eastidahonews.com/2022/0...ith-her-smile/

    Terrible WX the last several days, snow, high winds, etc., no doubt a factor.

  5. #2685
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    Quote Originally Posted by courierguy View Post
    "Ugly miserable bastard that nobody liked killed in plane crash". Why would that be an any less appropriate headline? Why would it be in any way less relevant to the circumstances of the accident? Is anyone keeping data on whether popular or unpopular people are more likely to be killed in flying accidents?

    Sorry, but headlines like this give me the creeps.
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  6. #2686
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    [QUOTE=frequent_flyer;825032]"Ugly miserable bastard that nobody liked killed in plane crash". Why would that be an any less appropriate headline? Why would it be in any way less relevant to the circumstances of the accident? Is anyone keeping data on whether popular or unpopular people are more likely to be killed in flying accidents?

    Sorry, but headlines like this give me the creeps.[

    The loss of a fellow airman pains me deeply. Media headlines trouble you? Good God, Man…..you really need to find a cave and take up residence. Who cares?

    A pilot, a genuinely adventurous young person, who devoted tremendous effort and expense to get into the seat of that Caravan has perished. God bless her, and I hope we are all devastated by her loss.

    This is a forum for aviators. This young woman was one of us.

    Please take your hatred of the media elsewhere.

    MTV
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  7. #2687
    frequent_flyer's Avatar
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    For those interested in the circumstances of the BYI accident the track log can be seen here - https://flightaware.com/live/flight/N928JP
    and the RNAV IAP can be found here - https://aeronav.faa.gov/d-tpp/2203/00068R20.PDF

    There appears to have been a late decision to fly the RNAV approach. The first attempt followed the published missed approach procedure. The second attempt seems to have ended at the accident site which is on the approach course and less than half mile from the runway threshold. The MDA for this IAP is 4560 ft.
    Last edited by frequent_flyer; 04-15-2022 at 08:30 AM.

  8. #2688
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    Quote Originally Posted by courierguy View Post

    Remember, this is not a FAA accident report,
    rather its an article paying tribute to a local person,
    who sounds like a bright active adventurous young woman any of us would have been happy to have known.
    Nothing at all wrong with that.
    And I didnt see any glaring errors in the aspects of the article either.
    Cessna Skywagon-- accept no substitute!
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  9. #2689
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    Snowing again last night and right now, one of the longest "springtime" snow events (pretty much all week) I've seen in the last 45 years in SE Idaho. I can't imagine the pressure of being a working pilot trying to get freight delivered in conditions like these.
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  10. #2690
    BC12D-4-85's Avatar
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    If any icing involved + Caravan = caution. See Supplement #1 in the POH. Example, but may not be current: https://www.martinaire.com/wp-conten...pplement-1.pdf

    Gary
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  11. #2691
    Speedo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by frequent_flyer View Post
    https://aeronav.faa.gov/d-tpp/2203/00068R20.PDF

    There appears to have been a late decision to fly the RNAV approach. The first attempt followed the published missed approach procedure. The second attempt seems to have ended at the accident site which is on the approach course and less than half mile from the runway threshold. The MDA for this IAP is 4560 ft.
    Perhaps not. Her route was TCH V101 BYI. Then end of V101 is MALTT. The ground track on FlightAware looks to me as if she flew to MALTT and then to the IAF at MUTOE. This doesn’t look like a late decision to fly the RNAV approach.
    Speedo

  12. #2692
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    Quote Originally Posted by Speedo View Post
    Perhaps not. Her route was TCH V101 BYI. Then end of V101 is MALTT. The ground track on FlightAware looks to me as if she flew to MALTT and then to the IAF at MUTOE. This doesn’t look like a late decision to fly the RNAV approach.
    Yes, that fits. Thanks for the correction.

  13. #2693
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    If you look at the kml file in Google earth, her approach was spot on the first time and she went missed at approximately 4375 msl.
    Appears to be procedure on missed and second approach was virtually identical to the first except the last 3 pings were a touch lower than the first approach.
    (The last ping was on the ground so you can’t count that as part of the glidepath)

    A deeper comparison shows the rate of descent continues at a higher rate on the second approach.
    First approach from 6125-4375’, vertical drops were 1000,1000,975,913,128. (I assume this is vertical difference between pings)
    Second approach at roughly same point is 643, 984, 946, 663, 750, 857. I would disregard the last one as invalid, but you can see the trend of continuing down without change.

    Weather was 2.5 in snow. Perhaps she broke out from the ovc and went visual. Hard to know.

    Without intimate knowledge one theory might be she contacted one of the towers, silos, or wires in the flight path. Structures are very evident in Google earth leading up to the final location.




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  14. #2694
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    If you zoom in on these two tower photos I believe you’ll see a difference. This is located on the building adjacent to the impact point.
    Click image for larger version. 

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  15. #2695
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    Icing? Could have caused an event on the second approach. Just guessing, you guys know more then I will ever know

  16. #2696
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    Click image for larger version. 

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  17. #2697
    BC12D-4-85's Avatar
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    ^^^^Note to self: Do not contaminate electronics. Soil yourself first. End of Message. Time for a 709 checkride?

    Gary
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  18. #2698

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    Hmmm. A non-lethal, albeit expensive, oops about which a chuckle is not "sick" humor.
    But I'll wager that stiffer language than "darn it" was employed!
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  19. #2699
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    It's dangerous enough having to look out for other airplanes and birds while burning avgas. How do we protect against attackers from below? These two were very lucky.
    https://boston.cbslocal.com/2022/04/...rdner-airport/
    N1PA
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  20. #2700
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    This event made the ABC national news. A similar thing happened when I was instructing at Bayport on LI. There was a guy taking shots with a pellet gun. I think he hit my J3 once but couldn’t be positive because the divot was on the bottom of the elevator and could have been a rock that did it.

    But then, the other instructor was landing in a 152 and heard the shot hit the plane. The guy lived in the last house at the threshold of 36. The instructor called on the Unicom and said “Andy just shot us”. Now the owner of the school was a guy who had given most of the aviation division cops their ratings. So one phone call resulted in five police cars and a Bell 407 showing up. That helicopter hovered in Andy’s back yard, then one side yard, then the other. I think it took him a week to find all his patio furniture. He stopped shooting. We could never prove it was him, but it was pretty clear it was.

    Rich
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  21. #2701
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    This stuff does happen. I know of a helicopter that came back with an aluminum shaft arrow stuck in the tail boom. Scary, but a nice shot.

    Web
    Life's tough . . . wear a cup.

  22. #2702
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    Quote Originally Posted by wireweinie View Post
    This stuff does happen. I know of a helicopter that came back with an aluminum shaft arrow stuck in the tail boom. Scary, but a nice shot.

    Web
    Actually this guy Andy used to shoot arrows too, but never hit anything. We would find them on the field once in a while. Again, never had any proof but we were pretty sure.

  23. #2703
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    Several years back a passenger in a 737 was hit in the leg by a bullet as the aircraft descended into Raleigh Durham airport in NC.

  24. #2704
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    Just a couple days ago, a mile after takeoff and just a couple hundred feet up, on the mountainside I live on, I had to divert a bit to avoid flying over several parked pickups, turkey hunters. No use giving anyone ideas.
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  25. #2705

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    I've got a neighbor (Ed) who's known to shoot at folks who get too close to his place. Hasn't hit anybody so far as I know, but this county is special so you can't really be sure. But he's about 5 miles off the end of the runway - uphill - so I haven't had to go out of my way to avoid him so far. But since one well placed bullet can be a bummer I will continue to avoid him when I can.

    But in civilization where y'all live, getting shot at ain't cool. Something needs to happen about that. I was not happy to see that the FAA had suspended their investigation - and apparently the FBI was not involved. I was of the understanding that any crime committed on a civil registered aircraft was a federal offense. I think the FBI ought to be out there working it hard. Folks shooting at other folks for no reason should not be tolerated!
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  26. #2706
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedOwlAirfield View Post
    - and apparently the FBI was not involved. I was of the understanding that any crime committed on a civil registered aircraft was a federal offense. I think the FBI ought to be out there working it hard. Folks shooting at other folks for no reason should not be tolerated!
    That has always been my understanding as well. Though in practice the FBI runs the other way. I had an incident when a passenger was out of control harassing other passengers. The cabin crew could not control him, so I made an emergency enroute landing having the police meet the plane. (I heard from a friend the incident was on the national news.) The FBI showed up to interview passengers, but beyond that they did nothing. I actually kicked the FBI agent off the plane because he was wasting our time. The local police arrested the unruly passengers and placed him in jail for a week. I have a cousin in law who was an FBI agent, he looked into the case for me. He is the one who told me the FBI did nothing and the local police did their deed.
    It's a long story not worth repeating here.
    N1PA
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  27. #2707
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    When I was a kid in CAP, one of the guys in my squadron was at solo encampment in Waseca Mn and his CFI got shot by a .22 thru the door, cut him up the rib cage but didn’t penetrate. Lots of blood. Landed no problem.

    One of the old LtCols in my first C130 unit used to fly the Goodyear blimp. Said they found arrows in it more often than you would think.


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  28. #2708
    BC12D-4-85's Avatar
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    Paint AMAZON on the wing bottom and they might quit the AAA firing

    Gary
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  29. #2709
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    I don't know where you've been me lad, but I see you won first Prize!

  30. #2710
    BC12D-4-85's Avatar
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    Better links for N9725Z>

    https://data.ntsb.gov/Docket?ProjectID=102605

    GAry
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  31. #2711
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    Thank you
    I don't know where you've been me lad, but I see you won first Prize!

  32. #2712
    BC12D-4-85's Avatar
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    Very sorry to all for the loss. It appears they are suggesting the right wing as an initial failure point (possibly among others like the empennage). It was a replacement wing and had been repaired and modified via STC. Now they'll likely run the metallurgy tests to look for prior stress.

    Gary

  33. #2713
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    Quote Originally Posted by BC12D-4-85 View Post
    Very sorry to all for the loss. It appears they are suggesting the right wing as an initial failure point (possibly among others like the empennage). It was a replacement wing and had been repaired and modified via STC. Now they'll likely run the metallurgy tests to look for prior stress.

    Gary
    The thing that haunts me is the right and left elevators jammed in opposite directions. And the torquing of the empennage.

    Could a wing separation do that? I have no idea.



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  34. #2714
    BC12D-4-85's Avatar
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    Read Docket Item #1 for airframe description and pictures: https://data.ntsb.gov/Docket?ProjectID=102605

    Note:
    "The outboard half of the right aileron from WS 154 to WS 208 separated from the airplane and was found in the debris field. The balance weights remained attached. There was a section of the aileron upper skin missing between WS 188 and 198 that was attached to the outboard aft wing piece"

    "The right and left trim actuators were separated from the lower surface of the horizontal stabilizer. The attach bolts were intact and installed in the trim actuators and the brackets were deformed and fractured consistent with upward movement of the leading edge of the horizontal stabilizer relative to the actuators"

    "The right elevator torque tube flange was fractured and separated from the center bell crank with torsional deformation consistent with the right elevator deflected trailing edge up with respect to the left elevator"

    At the end of flight the aircraft in a right turn descent may have closely met Vno (139 KIAS) and approached Vne (160 KIAS) with the Landes LW-3600 wheel penetration skis installed. Those limits are applied because that model of ski has been known to potentially stretch the bungees and extend down causing excessive drag and control issues.

    Now the why may be found.

    Gary
    Last edited by BC12D-4-85; 05-03-2022 at 11:58 PM.

  35. #2715

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    Any guess who this is? How many 87 year old gals are CFI's who fly around in T-carts.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~

    Location:
    Goose Bay



    Type: Aircraft Crash



    Dispatch Text:
    On May 16, 2022, at 4:55 pm, the Alaska State Troopers were notified of a plane crash near the Goose Bay Airport. Alaska State Troopers and Alaska Wildlife Troopers responded to the area and located a 1978 Taylorcraft F-19 overturned in the mudflats east of the Goose Bay Airport. Both the pilot, a 33-year-old female, and the passenger, an 87-year-old female who was also a certified flight instructor, were able to evacuate the plane after it crashed and were walking toward the shore. The Central Mat-Su Fire Department performed a high-angle rope rescue to safely hoist the passenger from the mudflats. The pilot, with the assistance of some good samaritans, was able to hike to a landing near the airport. The pilot departed the scene without requiring medical treatment, and the passenger was transported to a Mat-Su area hospital for minor injuries. The NTSB was notified of the crash. The plane was carried out with the tide and has not been recovered.



    Posted on 5/17/2022 8:22:40 AM by DPS\ajmcdaniel
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  36. #2716
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  37. #2717
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    how is it that anything is posted by the FAA within hours, yet they are months behind on everything else.
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  38. #2718

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    Oops, darn it...

    Quote Originally Posted by mvivion View Post
    National Guard spokesman said first helo impacted and a portion of its rotor blade took down the second. Not sure how he figured that out so fast, but….

    MTV

    Only one that I known of!


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  39. #2719
    Lisa Martin LMartin's Avatar
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    How is it that nobody wants to work for the FAA 🤷*♀️


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  40. #2720
    55-PA18A's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StalledOut View Post
    <strong>Any guess who this is? How many 87 year old gals are CFI's who fly around in T-carts.<br>
    <br>
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~</strong><br>
    Posted on 5/17/2022 8:22:40 AM by DPS\ajmcdaniel
    .

    Heidi ?
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