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Thread: Oops, darn it...

  1. #1681

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    "Stick came out of the torque tube during take off." How did that happen???
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  2. #1682
    wireweinie's Avatar
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    Bolt came out of stick. That's why it needs a safety of some sorts such as a cotter pin or nyloc, etc

    Web
    Life's tough . . . wear a cup.
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  3. #1683
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    Which accident did the bolt come out?

    I was jacking with my PTT and had my stick in and out several times. Put it in along with the nut and bolt. Took off and going around the pattern I pulled it out. I hadn't gotten it far enough in for the bolt to go in the stub. Got it back down on the stub to land but I was pushing that sucker down the whole time. I double and triple check that thing now.
    Steve Pierce

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  4. #1684
    Steve's Aircraft (Brian)'s Avatar
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    Oops, darn it...

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Pierce View Post
    Which accident did the bolt come out?

    I was jacking with my PTT and had my stick in and out several times. Put it in along with the nut and bolt. Took off and going around the pattern I pulled it out. I hadn't gotten it far enough in for the bolt to go in the stub. Got it back down on the stub to land but I was pushing that sucker down the whole time. I double and triple check that thing now.
    The one I posted..

    That is almost exactly what happened to Mike except his stick was a bit weird in that it had a pie cutout 90 degrees to the bolt hole on a straight control stick.. He put it in with the cutout and did not have the bolt hole lined up...

    Brian


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  5. #1685

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    Quote Originally Posted by BC12D-4-85 View Post
    Another long timer Alaskan goes west: https://www.asias.faa.gov/apex/f?p=1...,BARROW,N5454E

    Personal friend and parked next to me at the floatpond. Tens of thousands of Alaskan hours since early '70's from Ketchikan to Barrow. Passenger survived I'm told.

    Good by Jim you'll be missed and thanks for the mentoring.

    Gary
    Condolences, Gary. Sad deal. Hope the survivor recovers well.

  6. #1686
    Gordon Misch's Avatar
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    Basically the step turns the gear tube column is two shorter columns that each can take far more compression without buckling.
    Only in one plane. Note that the failure was in a plane roughly perpendicular to the one formed by gear leg and step.

    Re jury struts, they do stabilize the lift struts on both axes. PA-12 style more so than PA-18 style.
    Gordon

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  7. #1687

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    Since the step is not a pin joint and therefore transfers moment through the u-bolt clamp it does take bending loads on other planes. The degree of reaction varies based on load direction but it is there nonetheless. While an analyst would throw out it's contribution for purposes of design, in real life it is not negligible.

    As you correctly mention jury struts have transverse members linking the two struts in fore and aft direction added to the primary vertical. The transverse direction combined with the moment of inertia of the streamlined struts does stabilize in that direction, which is secondary to the vertical buckling.

  8. #1688
    SJ's Avatar
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    A little action in KC today..

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z8EMYqcl_t0

    Lost an engine on takeoff and could not make it safely back to the airport.
    "Often Mistaken, but Never in Doubt"
    ------------------------------------------
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  9. #1689
    Doug Budd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Pierce View Post
    Which accident did the bolt come out?

    I was jacking with my PTT and had my stick in and out several times. Put it in along with the nut and bolt. Took off and going around the pattern I pulled it out. I hadn't gotten it far enough in for the bolt to go in the stub. Got it back down on the stub to land but I was pushing that sucker down the whole time. I double and triple check that thing now.
    Dad was flying my uncles cub and landed at his ranch and picked up Scott Hare. Dad’s runway is really short with a dog leg in the middle and a tall long hill at the end. As he was taking off the stick came out he grabbed the stub to keep control and handed Scott the stick , as soon as they were out of harm’s way Scott handed Dad back the stick. Dad said he was lifting on the stick to help it get off faster LOL


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  10. #1690
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    https://youtu.be/5Fgqg7LuAi4


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  11. #1691
    CamTom12's Avatar
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    Oops, darn it...

    Looks like a twin bonanza. I really like those planes, glad he got it down safe!

    EDIT: I just read on beech talk, twin bo. Engine failure, prop wouldn’t feather and airplane wouldn’t maintain altitude.

    Great job aviating by that guy!

  12. #1692
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    Quote Originally Posted by CamTom12 View Post
    Looks like a twin bonanza. I really like those planes, glad he got it down safe!

    EDIT: I just read on beech talk, twin bo. Engine failure, prop wouldn’t feather and airplane wouldn’t maintain altitude.

    Great job aviating by that guy!
    indeed. In one of the still pictures you can clearly see the right propeller stopped and not feathered.

    Great decision making and flying.

    MTV

  13. #1693

  14. #1694

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    How many systems and alarms need to be ignored and bypassed to land one of them gear up?
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  15. #1695
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    How many systems and alarms need to be ignored and bypassed to land one of them gear up?
    Just One,.... the brain....

    Anecdotally, I believe many of the accidents over the past ten to twenty years are firmly planted in the loose soil of poor airmanship. Technology has allowed us to forget the important things.

    Carl Sagen said it best;
    “We've arranged a global civilization in which most crucial elements profoundly depend on science and technology. We have also arranged things so that almost no one understands science and technology. This is a prescription for disaster."

  16. #1696
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    Latest status report prior to anything official. Does not look good for the crew decisions. There is a huge amount of banter on the jet aviation forums, this is a good factual summary of facts known.

    https://youtu.be/OZ0LY7ma1cA
    Last edited by Scooter7779h; 05-25-2020 at 11:14 AM. Reason: add text
    =========
    PA-12 fan
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  17. #1697

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    I keep having the lyrics of the Grateful Dead's version of "Casey Jones" going through my mind.
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  18. #1698

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  19. #1699
    www.SkupTech.com mike mcs repair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mot View Post
    I’m hearing wrong fuel. Jet A


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  20. #1700
    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    Sure tore it up! you would think that an Aero Commander would be able to land in the water without doing so much damage.
    N1PA
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  21. #1701
    Speedo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike mcs repair View Post
    I’m hearing wrong fuel. Jet A


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    Who refueled them?
    Speedo

  22. #1702

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    drivin that train..........
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  23. #1703
    Speedo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Sherwood View Post
    drivin that train..........
    High on cocaine, Casey Jones you better watch your speed
    Speedo

  24. #1704
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    206 and Beaver both on floats mid-air. Lake Coeur d’Alene on Sunday afternoon.

    https://www.spokesman.com/stories/20...ng-to-downed-/

    Both of these airplanes have high instrument panels with a lot of blind space which makes it difficult to see another plane. Witness reports seem to indicate that this was another case of "no-see-um". Keep your heads on a swivel Guys. All of those electronic gadgets including the FAA's ADS-B are no substitute for those Mach 1 eyeballs. Particularly on a nice Sunday afternoon.
    N1PA
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  25. #1705
    courierguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skywagon8a View Post
    206 and Beaver both on floats mid-air. Lake Coeur d’Alene on Sunday afternoon.

    https://www.spokesman.com/stories/20...ng-to-downed-/

    Both of these airplanes have high instrument panels with a lot of blind space which makes it difficult to see another plane. Witness reports seem to indicate that this was another case of "no-see-um". Keep your heads on a swivel Guys. All of those electronic gadgets including the FAA's ADS-B are no substitute for those Mach 1 eyeballs. Particularly on a nice Sunday afternoon.
    A lot of the YouTube flying video's have a POV from pretty much the pilot's eyeballs, and it amazes me how crappy the over the nose viz is out of many planes. Good viz, it's something I look for now (?) in any video I watch. The RANS S-7S I fly is at the top in this regard, I'm spoiled. Whenever a different engine is used, and the cowling is modded to accommodate the (usually) larger engine, losing viz seems to be never mentioned or considered.
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  26. #1706

  27. #1707
    akavidflyer's Avatar
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    Is that just staining in the bottom of the floats? Looks like some electrolysis going on and the big patch ripped off the bottom would certainly ruin anyone's day. Glad they were both able to get out.
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  28. #1708
    www.SkupTech.com mike mcs repair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by akavidflyer View Post
    Is that just staining in the bottom of the floats? Looks like some electrolysis going on and the big patch ripped off the bottom would certainly ruin anyone's day. Glad they were both able to get out.
    Looks like it popped at a bulkhead then folded back.... there probably more to the story that happened some other location.....


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  29. #1709
    BC12D-4-85's Avatar
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    The tough no-see-um's are when the other plane moves little sideways relative to the observer. Just get bigger until .....

    Gary

  30. #1710

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    My eyes think they see a repair patch that tore out. From the color of the floats that one did not come on land very often.
    Regards, Charlie
    Super Coupe E-AB build in process

  31. #1711
    www.SkupTech.com mike mcs repair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike mcs repair View Post
    "aircraft caught float on water landing and became inverted, anchorage, ak."

  32. #1712

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    Quote Originally Posted by mike mcs repair View Post
    Looks like it popped at a bulkhead then folded back.... there probably more to the story that happened some other location.....
    I was wondering whether there is something on the bottom of the lake that might have caused that hole during the accident sequence. It looked like a shallow area based on the way the aircraft settled up high initially after the accident. So I wondered whether the digging of the floats carried the floats down far enough to cause that damage as the float went under.
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  33. #1713
    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    The picture here https://www.ktuu.com/content/news/nt...571636881.html shows what appears to be a big hole with perhaps a torn out patch peeled back. IF so, something like this could create an enormous instant amount of drag with the potential to capsize. Particularly if the pilot is unaware. If he knew, he possibly could land slow and tail low enough to get down right side up. The edges of the hole appear to be straight indicating a torn out patch rather than a new hole. Also there is a border of clean metal around the hole.
    N1PA
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  34. #1714

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    The pilot took off from Red Shirt Lake prior to landing - take off was normal as observed by my co-worker. I was on the ground at the hood strip when it happened. Here's a screen shot video from a livestream of Lake Hood - it's very blurry in the actual crash.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1G3HrgMft4w
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  35. #1715
    akavidflyer's Avatar
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    I am gonna guess corrosion played a big part in this.

  36. #1716
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    Those float bottoms look pretty spooky to me.....

    MTV
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  37. #1717
    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    I wonder what that black triangle shape is just ahead of the tear out? An opening which let in a large amount of impact water which ripped out the big square? The shape of the tear out seems to indicate that the large water force came from inside. Did that black triangle open up scooping in water?
    N1PA
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  38. #1718
    BC12D-4-85's Avatar
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    In the video (set the playback speed at 0.25 in the lower right under Settings) at 0:11 sec the compromised left float sinks lower than the right and can be seen throwing a large side wake above the surface. The plane then turns sharp left, digs in the right float front, and rolls the right wing down followed by the left. I like Sky's note of the hole in front pressurizing the compartment and blowing out the larger opening. Just a guess of course.

    Gary

  39. #1719

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    Grabbed this image;

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	CEF208A4-BAC0-44F0-BC24-2854B4CB2CDA.jpeg 
Views:	103 
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ID:	49896
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  40. #1720
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    Based on the violent nature of that video, I am quite surprised and happy they were able to get out.
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