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Oops, darn it...

Farmboy said:
I thought this was fake, so I moved on. Then I saw it again, and from a somewhat more “reputable” source.
If it’s real, I would prefer it to be fake.

https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/270409
Click to expand...
Look at it frame by frame. The airplane is strutless, meaning all the wing loads are carried in the center section. Also it is an agriculture dispersal plane and they carry some really strong and corrosive chemicals. I suspect the center section had been eaten away by the chemicals. Perhaps the critical area is in a hidden location? One needs to pay close attention to cleanliness and structural integrity in these machines. Who knows how conscientious the operators in Brazil may be?

Remember when the wing came off a Chalks airline Mallard in Miami? Corrosion in a crack in the spar.
 
skywagon8a said:
Look at it frame by frame. The airplane is strutless, meaning all the wing loads are carried in the center section. Also it is an agriculture dispersal plane and they carry some really strong and corrosive chemicals. I suspect the center section had been eaten away by the chemicals. Perhaps the critical area is in a hidden location? One needs to pay close attention to cleanliness and structural integrity in these machines. Who knows how conscientious the operators in Brazil may be?

Remember when the wing came off a Chalks airline Mallard in Miami? Corrosion in a crack in the spar.
Click to expand...

I was told that a certain winglet mod on Air Tractors shortens the life limit on the wings. This plane has winglets. Maybe combined effects?

MTV
 
Basic practices not followed: no mechanical anchoring installed between the bundle and the fuel line. Simply install an adel clamp on each and then bolt both clamps together. If you are in a hurry, tie the bundle to the fuel line with Koro Seal lacing and the knot between them will hold them apart. Either way it stops the rubbing motion between the bundle and the tube that occurs with vibration.

And then no one looked at it during inspections?

Making my profession look bad.

Web
 
Rudder post: Inspect the affected area for external and internal corrosion or signs of stress before complete replacement? These things tend to snowball then roll downhill and grow quickly.

Gary
 
NTSB has no mention of possible gust lock or non-gust lock tiedown practices.

…just sayin, and wonderin…….
 
Instead of rudder replacement, why not internally sleeve the rudder post with tube of 4130 down past the hinge point. I did this on my 180 cub during rebuild. Easy to do.
 
Here's two NTSB investigation Dockets re the rudder failures above. Have a look at the pictures that show the damaged areas and metal analysis. Download the "View" files and read. The Laboratory Factual Reports indicate "The fatigue originated from corrosion pits on the exterior surface---." "Additionally, rudders A, B and C had faceted features and surface roughness consistent with being grit blasted...consistent with olivine abrasive blasting media." They also noted the angular features (some scratches) would also tend to locally increase the stress in the rudder post. They discounted the effect of propeller blade frequency as a source of failure.

Edit: Also didn't really bad the top beacons installed on some. Read the reports and pop some corn. This isn't over.

https://data.ntsb.gov/Docket?ProjectID=101415
https://data.ntsb.gov/Docket?ProjectID=103552

Gary


 
Last edited:
Don’t know for sure, but if it was up near Lynx peak, the CAP may not have been able to get near it due to low clouds and high winds. That area is pretty jagged as far as peaks go and we had some sporty winds down here for a few days. And I do believe it had a 121.5, otherwise they’d be able to ID the aircraft owner based on the coded 406 transmission.

Kudos to the pilot IMO for getting himself taken care of, and kudos for the searchers for keeping it up.


Sent from my iPhone using SuperCub.Org
 
I’d guess he was gone long before they started looking for the plane. Also, triangulating a signal would likely require better weather above the mountains than your buddy coming straight up the drainage under the clouds.


Sent from my iPhone using SuperCub.Org
 
Should have shut off the ELT upon departing. Might have prevented some of the cost and possible collateral damage

Gary
 
Well, while that’s true, who knows what was going on in their heads at the time.

On the other side, I’d bet if during that 4 days, someone would have said something on social media about a 121 ELT going off in the Talkeetnas, they could have figured it out pretty quick and either went straight to it, or lowered the priority.

And on that note, why would you not let the community know? A plane had an ELT going off for 4 days in the mountains, pretty close to Palmer/Wasilla. Most people know lots of other pilots here and everyone could have checked on each other, and maybe found someone that was missing. That would at least give a bunch of info to narrow or expedite the search.

I’m just thinking out loud.


Sent from my iPhone using SuperCub.Org
 
EdH said:
Well, while that’s true, who knows what was going on in their heads at the time.

On the other side, I’d bet if during that 4 days, someone would have said something on social media about a 121 ELT going off in the Talkeetnas, they could have figured it out pretty quick and either went straight to it, or lowered the priority.

And on that note, why would you not let the community know? A plane had an ELT going off for 4 days in the mountains, pretty close to Palmer/Wasilla. Most people know lots of other pilots here and everyone could have checked on each other, and maybe found someone that was missing. That would at least give a bunch of info to narrow or expedite the search.

I’m just thinking out loud.


Sent from my iPhone using SuperCub.Org
Click to expand...

I will keep my comments about the Alaska CAP to a minimum, but for years they and the 'rescue' center have been very unforthcoming about missing aircraft. To make it worse, they can not seem to find a missing plane to save their soul.

All procedure and military like policy, zero common sense and interest in situation reality.
 
BC12D-4-85 said:
Yes. Another Taylorcraft for recovery-restoration. The pilot and help gots some 'splainin' to do

Edit: More public news> https://radiokenai.com/unsecured-aircraft-found-overturned-in-hatcher-pass-on-thursday/

Gary
Click to expand...
Under the circumstances the ELT was likely the last thing on his mind. And if S&R didn't mention to the public they were looking for an airplane's ELT which was beeping for 4 days, that's on them. The pilot would have heard and remembered he hadn't checked his ELT. The airplane is from Palmer, were any inquiries made there by S&R for a missing airplane?

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aktango58 said:
I will keep my comments about the Alaska CAP to a minimum, but for years they and the 'rescue' center have been very unforthcoming about missing aircraft. To make it worse, they can not seem to find a missing plane to save their soul.

All procedure and military like policy, zero common sense and interest in situation reality.
Click to expand...

I agree, if we had waited for RCC to get off their duff and actually come get my friend he would be dead. We found him, called RCC and they said 30 minutes, after 3 hours we hauled him into town. We waited because we thought a stretcher, helicopter straight to the hospital was worth the 30 minute wait, it was worth an hour wait but after 3 hours we hauled him into town and drove him to the hospital. That was many years ago, maybe things have changed but I seriously doubt it. They should have been honest with us and told us how long its going to take, that is what really upset everyone involved.
 
I can't speak to other CAP Squadrons, but in Fairbanks once notified they would have done their best from my experience. In this case the CAP, State F&W Troopers, Army National Guard, and ground search parties were involved in the search at some point for several days. Why the pilot didn't notify them is unknown. "The Alaska State Troopers and Alaska Wildlife Troopers would like to remind pilots to notify the FAA if they are planning to leave an unsecured aircraft in the Alaska wilderness or if they crash but can self-rescue through a private party".

Gary
 
National Guard, CAP, Troopers have difficulty finding the plane in 4 days. The guy's buddy drops in and picks him up same day. :roll:
 
Crash said:
National Guard, CAP, Troopers have difficulty finding the plane in 4 days. The guy's buddy drops in and picks him up same day. :roll:
Click to expand...

guys buddy was probably flying around with him and was on scene when it happened. Due to mechanical issue was unable to land? looks more like flat light, hit a drift or ridge and wiped out the gear and went on its back.
 
^^^^Apparently the weather got worse after the crash that made searching or seeing difficult> "Eight CAP volunteer aircrew members searched for a total of five hours over multiple days, often being hampered by high winds and low visibility due to severe weather in the area, and also conducted a 13-hour ground search in an attempt to identify and locate the beacon"

His Aero 3000's and gear were really ripped sideways and up. Probably either the bungees hyperextended and the safety cables let go, the third gear struts separated from the main "A" (common for them that old to be internally corroded or the lower bolt simply shears), or the truss tower got busted. Just bungees and safety cable holding it all together with not shock unit.

Gary
 
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