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Oops, darn it...

Very lucky to have hit the water, ground and other aircraft so close. Would have been fireball on land a few feet away.
Classic too slow, sinking, then downwind turn.
 
Troy Hamon said:
I have taken off from Lake Hood in similar conditions with a similar load, though boxes of tools were substituted for some of the passengers. I am amazed in watching that video at how early he was off the water. The wind didn't look to be strong enough to be airborne that early, let alone as high up as he got. But without the actual numbers, just puzzling it out loud based on what little I know. What I see in that video doesn't make sense at all.[/QUOTE
Small children, small adults, day trip.

Tourists that were healthy and undersized- it happens once a year.:p
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Another oops. This one a 747 freighter. Under tow, the tow connection broke, the plane was headed to run of off the ramp and down the slope next to the ramp until a truck took one for the team and blocked the nose gear.
 

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stewartb said:
Another oops. This one a 747 freighter. Under tow, the tow connection broke, the plane was headed to run of off the ramp and down the slope next to the ramp until a truck took one for the team and blocked the nose gear.
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That's a NO NO. There is always supposed to be a person in the cockpit to step on the brakes when one of these is under tow. Someone is going to be in trouble for this.
 
skywagon8a said:
That's a NO NO. There is always supposed to be a person in the cockpit to step on the brakes when one of these is under tow. Someone is going to be in trouble for this.
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It would not be the first time there WAS someone in the cockpit but aircraft systems were configured incorrectly resulting in no brake pressure. Doesn't need a big airplane to get this wrong, Can be done in CubCrafters aircraft too (but not for quite the same reasons)
 
frequent_flyer said:
It would not be the first time there WAS someone in the cockpit but aircraft systems were configured incorrectly resulting in no brake pressure. Doesn't need a big airplane to get this wrong, Can be done in CubCrafters aircraft too (but not for quite the same reasons)
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Just sniff the air in that cockpit. You'll find out if someone was riding dead brakes or not.

Web
 
Troy Hamon said:
I have taken off from Lake Hood in similar conditions with a similar load, though boxes of tools were substituted for some of the passengers. I am amazed in watching that video at how early he was off the water. The wind didn't look to be strong enough to be airborne that early, let alone as high up as he got. But without the actual numbers, just puzzling it out loud based on what little I know. What I see in that video doesn't make sense at all.
Click to expand...

Troy
I think the video is very deceiving, I believe he took off on the SE runway and the video starts after he was off the water. Load was six people, lunch, and fuel. If you look at the trees you can see a big gust was happening, Most likely a strong gusting quartering tailwind like Cubplot2 mentioned when he was over the slow taxi channel heading east. Not a simple or routine takeoff. I think the changing/gusting wind was a big factor but not the only factor. The plane landed 525 feet from my 180. DENNY
 
Hi Denny.

Yes, based on the wind on the water it looks like he would have been cleared to take off SE with an E option. Unless it is blowing over 30 or his people were super light, he should have been on the water until near Airmen’s point. But it looks as if he lifts off well before that. Although the beavers I operate are gross at 5600 so maybe he is operating lighter than I am assuming. Anyway, a step turn and east takeoff with a south or southeast wind should not be particularly challenging if he is operating commercially. I wasn’t in the plane. What doesn’t make sense to me is what happened inside that airplane.

And he and his passengers, and you and all the other tenants over in that commercial finger, are incredibly fortunate that when it came unhooked at the end it ended up in the water and not on land.
 
Whatever happened the pilot was offered the load and flight. Maybe not a choice that person would have routinely accepted. The Beaver didn't like the conditions and responded like those that fly them know can happen. At some point in this event somebody needed to either reject the flight, or pay particular attention based on earlier experiences...or they too will become passengers.

Gary
 
DENNY said:
I think the changing/gusting wind was a big factor but not the only factor. The plane landed 525 feet from my 180. DENNY
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This is the exact scenario we argued about all those years ago about downwind turns.
You can see something happen just as he levels the wings. Whether it was from a windshear caused by the buildings or a simple gust of wind, it's a perfect example of what happens when you are right on the edge.
 
S2D said:
This is the exact scenario we argued about all those years ago about downwind turns.
You can see something happen just as he levels the wings. Whether it was from a windshear caused by the buildings or a simple gust of wind, it's a perfect example of what happens when you are right on the edge.
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And, of course one should understand that, certainly while carrying passengers for hire, or if you value your own hide, you should NOT be operating right on that edge.
Accident report should read: Pilot failed to do some of that Pilot **** at the appropriate moment.

no rocket science here, just fly the plane.

MTV
 
We can armchair all we want but I think it goes way beyond this pilots mistake in this particular situation.
 
Llooked like the right wing was trying to stall in the first part of the turn and a gust or a lot of rudder brought that back up then maybe the fuselage blocked some of the next gust coming from 90 degrees off his right side and he lost it. It is super scary situation happening very I remember S2D screaming in my headset ( what are you doing ) when a gust and my poor decisions compounded to put me up on my left wing tip at 10 or so feet AGL. It was over and I got lucky before I had much time to do much of anything and couldn’t have found the PTT to answer if I had wanted to.
 
Utah-Jay said:
I’m a low time pilot, and never flown a Beaver…. But damn lower the nose
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At the point the wings are waggling, it was over.

Got some room in front??? Build airspeed THEN turn with heavy planes. If he had come out of there another 10MPH faster he would have bobbled, but a nose drop would have recovered. No reason not to climb at 90 in gusty conditions with that plane.

Not all the pax were big. Couple children and below normal tourist adult weights, but lots of fuel you can bet.
 
Minimum five hours RT, enroute wx big factor. Beaver will flight plan 25g/hr, most will take on fuel at King salmon or Port Alsworth.
 
Randyk said:
Minimum five hours RT, enroute wx big factor. Beaver will flight plan 25g/hr, most will take on fuel at King salmon or Port Alsworth.
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This raises a question in my mind. IF transients can "pick up fuel in Port Alsworth", how is the fuel transported to Port Alsworth at it's roadless location? It must be flown in with DC-6 or C-130 tankers? There isn't any barge access, is there?
 
skywagon8a said:
This raises a question in my mind. IF transients can "pick up fuel in Port Alsworth", how is the fuel transported to Port Alsworth at it's roadless location? It must be flown in with DC-6 or C-130 tankers? There isn't any barge access, is there?
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DC-4, DC-6 or C-113
 
It’s so strange. I don’t understand what would be in front of him to make him choose that risky turn. Control jam? I heard of an airplane this spring that had the elevator jam in the up position at take off. A roll to the left at a few hundred feet agl got it into level flight after the stall warning, shake and pilot stating , “Help me” quickly developed. Power management brought it safely in through a high speed landing. Turned out the mechanical failure was an unused iPad bracket that had spun around and jammed under the yoke and hooked into the trim window so that the elevator would not move either way.


Sent from my iPhone using SuperCub.Org
 
stewartb said:
Watch the aileron position. He didn’t turn downwind. He was fighting it. He lost.
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Can you please post a couple of screen snapshots showing this aileron deflection. The video I'm looking at has insufficient resolution to see control deflections.
 
Call me judgmental, ignorant, whatever, but I haven’t seen anything in any video of this event that wouldn’t have been solved by simply keeping the nose down, accelerating, and climbing shallow... I kinda thought that’s just what you do in a heavy plane, especially when gusty/squirrelly, but what do I know... All I really know is I’m extremely thankful no one was hurt any worse. Now back to analyzing minutia...
 
frequent_flyer said:
Can you please post a couple of screen snapshots showing this aileron deflection. The video I'm looking at has insufficient resolution to see control deflections.
Click to expand...

Speculating of course...see my post #2932 from ~0:08 to 0:13 sec. Note the light reflection on the left wing controls (deflected flap/aileron) vs the right flap only (aileron up?). It's dimly visible until 0:13 then brightens until the full left roll. Click on the video to see the full screen.

Gary
 
LMartin said:
It’s so strange. I don’t understand what would be in front of him to make him choose that risky turn.
Click to expand...

Exactly. This can't be the first time this plane has taken this trip under similiar conditions. So where was the oversight for these type operations.
You don't just put someone in the plane and let them have at it !!!!
 
Another factor to be investigated are the dual control trim settings prior to flight. Overhead are roller wheels which activate moveable tabs on the rudder and elevator.

Gary
 
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