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Thread: Oops, darn it...

  1. #1121
    Alex Clark's Avatar
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    I think there are two Point Martin's in Alaska. Not sure which one this was.

    Date: 05-JUL-19
    Time: 21:00:00Z
    Regis#: N3907K
    Aircraft Make: PIPER
    Aircraft Model: 18
    Event Type: INCIDENT
    Highest Injury: NONE
    Aircraft Missing: No
    Damage: MINOR
    LOCATION
    City: POINT MARTIN
    State: ALASKA
    Country: UNITED STATES
    DESCRIPTION
    Description: LANDING GEAR COLLAPSED AFTER LANDING ON BEACH

  2. #1122
    Alex Clark's Avatar
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    Plane down in Tutka Bay across from Homer:
    https://www.ktuu.com/content/news/Al...512953381.html



    No word yet on who or what. Ambulance just blasted out to the end of the spit.

    This photo is from the web cam looking in that direction right now. Smoke in the bay and in the mountains around Tutka.

    UPDATE:


    No one was injured in a plane crash near the mouth of the Tutka Bay near Homer, the Coast Guard said Friday.

    The de Havilland DHC-2 Beaver crashed “under unknown circumstances” as it was taking off from Tutka Bay Lodge, authorities said. It was unclear exactly when the crash happened.

    Seven people were aboard the Beaver, said Petty Officer Amanda Norcross of the U.S. Coast Guard 17th District. All seven were rescued and brought back to Homer, Norcross said. No injuries were reported.

    UPDATE #2 News agencies not in agreement...


    One person was injured in a plane crash near the mouth of Tutka Bay, located across Kachemak Bay from Homer, the Coast Guard said Friday.

    The de Havilland DHC-2 Beaver was carrying four adults and three children when it crashed “under unknown circumstances” as it was taking off from Tutka Bay Lodge, authorities said. The plane never actually left the water, said Petty Officer Amanda Norcross of the U.S. Coast Guard 17th District.

    All seven people were rescued by a good Samaritan vessel and brought back to Homer, Norcross said. One person needed immediate medical assistance.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by Alex Clark; 07-19-2019 at 04:02 PM.

  3. #1123
    www.SkupTech.com mike mcs repair's Avatar
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  4. #1124
    www.SkupTech.com mike mcs repair's Avatar
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    Oops, darn it...

    Deleted

  5. #1125
    Alex Clark's Avatar
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    The Alaska news media.. an ever evolving story.... or none at all...


    UPDATED AGAIN:

    https://www.adn.com/alaska-news/avia...-troopers-say/
    Last edited by Alex Clark; 07-19-2019 at 11:46 PM.
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  6. #1126

  7. #1127
    www.SkupTech.com mike mcs repair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skukum12 View Post
    I searched for an update on the March 2019 missing 172 near Rainy, nothing. Was the pilot/plane found?
    found it

    https://www.adn.com/alaska-news/avia...-alaska-range/

  8. #1128

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    Plane's engine quits, he lands (safely, and without apparent damage) in an Idaho field. Big whoop right? But check it out, it appears to be a turbo prop TBM of some sort, a go fast, bringing this safe off airport landing up to an entire different level. Kudos to the pilot, even if it turns out he did something stupid like run out of fuel, he continued to fly the aircraft. This event got one minor blip in the local media, then fell off the radar, another plus for the pilot. https://www.localnews8.com/news/kifi...nty/1097965876
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  9. #1129
    Flying Dave's Avatar
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    While I applaud the landing it looks like a Kodiak, which is along way from a TBM. The wing on the top is the first hint... lol...

  10. #1130

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flying Dave View Post
    While I applaud the landing it looks like a Kodiak, which is along way from a TBM. The wing on the top is the first hint... lol...
    Was a Kodiak per FAA incident report last weekend. 2017 year. Heard it maybe was not tied to aircraft issue. So?
    John

  11. #1131
    mvivion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by john schwamm View Post
    Was a Kodiak per FAA incident report last weekend. 2017 year. Heard it maybe was not tied to aircraft issue. So?
    John
    Quest, maker of the Kodiak is now owned by Daher, manufacturer of the TBM. So, technically, both the KodiAk and TBM are Daher aircraft,.

    MTV

  12. #1132

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    So I was right? haha... My turbo prop ID skills are not good I admit! But it did strike me as somewhat unusual, being a pretty big and somewhat fast bird, to be involved in an off airport "event" and come through it unscathed, very cool. I'm still a bit puzzled by how it received such little local news coverage, nice to see for a change, no "the pilot is lucky to alive."

    We had a crop duster go down a couple weeks ago, right behind the range I live on. The non pilot print reporter stated it had "lost it's lift," unknowingly perhaps cutting right to the chase, as one way or the other he for sure lost his lift judging by the picture. Minor injuries.
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  13. #1133

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    Mike,
    Daher has not closed on the sale for Quest yet.
    Scheduled for end of the year, so for now Kodiak is not in the TBM family.
    John

  14. #1134
    gdafoe's Avatar
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    Interestingly it is in the Daher display at Oshkosh.
    Gerald

  15. #1135
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    https://aviationweek.com/business-av...quest-aircraft

    Daher, the producer of TBM single-engine, pressurized turboprop, is expanding its product line with the acquisition of Quest Aircraft Co., manufacturer of the Kodiak 100, a bush plane also powered by a single Pratt & Whitney Canada PT6 engine. The acquisition is expected to close by the end of 2019. Based in France, the Daher Group ultimately plans to introduce technologies and function into the Kodiak aircraft that “have contributed to the successes achieved by ...






    N1PA
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  16. #1136
    www.SkupTech.com mike mcs repair's Avatar
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    Based in France, the Daher Group
    that might get expensive soon.....

  17. #1137
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    I thought that the Kodiak appeal was partly the strait forward easy to use and maintain aircraft. Now they want to make it more complicated?

    Heard a Caravan on floats went down north of Port Hardy, Some fatalities, sounds like ugly weather delayed search aircraft but the ferry was close and helped.


    Enough accidents this year guys, Hunting season is almost here, lets use caution!
    I don't know where you've been me lad, but I see you won first Prize!
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  18. #1138

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    Already expensive, think new one with most options is at least $2.5 now. The French connection will probably increase the prices, TBM spares are pretty costly I have heard.
    It is pretty cool to have the small factory in Sandpoint, ID building the Kodiak, they are built bush tough, to me far stronger and better quality than a Caravan.
    John

  19. #1139
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    Quote Originally Posted by john schwamm View Post
    It is pretty cool to have the small factory in Sandpoint, ID building the Kodiak, they are built bush tough, to me far stronger and better quality than a Caravan.
    John
    The original design approach was different. Cessna designed the Caravan to be a package hauler for FedEx with their initial order of 100 airplanes. They usually used long hard surface runways. The Kodiak was intended from the outset as a workhorse back country machine. I believe the initial intent was for missionary work.
    N1PA

  20. #1140
    mvivion's Avatar
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    Another Icon bites the......uh, water: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VKMbxBe2iRM

    Pretty ugly. Fortunately, no one killed.

    MTV
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  21. #1141
    hotrod180's Avatar
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    I'm curious about the apparent rash of Icon crashes.....
    is this like the rash of Cirrus crashes not too long ago?
    In other words, effective marketing resulting in newbies buying them,
    then crashing due to not knowing what they're doing?
    (kinda like the "forked-tail doctor killer" syndrome of old)
    Cessna Skywagon-- accept no substitute!
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  22. #1142
    mvivion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hotrod180 View Post
    I'm curious about the apparent rash of Icon crashes.....
    is this like the rash of Cirrus crashes not too long ago?
    In other words, effective marketing resulting in newbies buying them,
    then crashing due to not knowing what they're doing?
    (kinda like the "forked-tail doctor killer" syndrome of old)
    My understanding was that this was a demo flight. One would assume that a demo flight would involve someone with some experience. At least one previous accident with fatalities was flown as a demo flight, flown by Icon’s test pilot.

    I don’t think there’s anything wrong with the airplane, frankly, though I’ve never flown one. But their marketing early on was a bit sketchy: “A jet ski with wings”.

    But, yes, I suspect there may be similarities with early Cirrus accidents.

    MTV
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  23. #1143
    Eddie Foy's Avatar
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    Ugly! I yelled ABORT! five times!

    Quote Originally Posted by mvivion View Post
    Another Icon bites the......uh, water: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VKMbxBe2iRM

    Pretty ugly. Fortunately, no one killed.

    MTV
    "Put out my hand and touched the face of God!"
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  24. #1144
    CenterHillAg's Avatar
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    My theory is you either have an inherent trust of airplanes and their capabilities, or you fly it like it’s trying to kill you. So many of these accidents can be attributed to believing it has the power, STOL’ness, or bad wx capability for the pilot to make it out, so they take off none the wiser.

    I fly my working plane almost every day this time of year, it fits me like a well worn pair of boots and I feel that I’m one with it while working, but I don’t trust that cantankerous SOB for one second. Hope for the best, but plan for the worst.

  25. #1145
    Farmboy's Avatar
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    As mike said, and I tend to vocalise, the marketing plan is everything. Nothing backs up the marketing and until someone revamps the board of directors nothing will change.
    The scary thing is the “oh wow, gotta have one” reaction from newbies that have never flown in their life.


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  26. #1146
    Chicken Hawk's Avatar
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    350K, & a three year waiting list,I would say their marketing plan was extremely successful!
    The airplane does everything they said it would do. All NTSB reports have pointed to Pilot errors or weather conditions, which I consider to be a pilot judgement error.
    They never advertised it as a tree top trimmer.




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  27. #1147
    Farmboy's Avatar
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    Perhaps it does what they said, but it’s performance does not match my perception. The searey outperforms it all day.

    Discussed before, but so far a majority are owned/operated by Icon, with very few in personal ownership, after years of fanfare, investors and re-investments by more investors. With a re-organisation or two in the middle.



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  28. #1148

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    They aren’t designed as STOL airplanes. Apparently this guy thought he was in one.

  29. #1149

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    I just got back from OSH. One guy in our group went on a demo flight in the ICON. He was not impressed by the plane and was frightened by the company pilot. His flight was on a cooler day right after the storms passed but said the plane felt like the DA was very high.

  30. #1150

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    The crash shown looks all wrong, from the crosswind run up and take off to the quick turn. What’s the point in not pointing it into the wind at the start. Seems like pilot problem to me.


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  31. #1151
    mvivion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JeffP View Post
    The crash shown looks all wrong, from the crosswind run up and take off to the quick turn. What’s the point in not pointing it into the wind at the start. Seems like pilot problem to me.


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    Turning takeoffs are fairly common in seaplanes. Hard to tell the exact direction of the wind, but velocity didn’t look to be that high. He made the turn easily enough. Looked to me that he got into a rotor off the tree line after he turned parallel to it.

    MTV

  32. #1152

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    You thinking some turbulence off the tree line. I agree, but his taxi route looked like it would have been a better choice for take off. I think he played to the camera and might have lost.


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  33. #1153
    BC12D-4-85's Avatar
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    The parked sailboat indicates wind direction. There's always a wind shadow and maybe a top rotor in the sheltered lee of trees.

    Gary
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  34. #1154

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    Classic case of the dreaded slow and low downwind turn.
    Remember, These are the Good old Days!
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  35. #1155
    aktango58's Avatar
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    break off the water, tip the nose down to build speed.

    Speed is control, and any gusts require speed and control.
    I don't know where you've been me lad, but I see you won first Prize!
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  36. #1156
    www.SkupTech.com mike mcs repair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aktango58 View Post
    Heard a Caravan on floats went down north of Port Hardy, Some fatalities, sounds like ugly weather delayed search aircraft but the ferry was close and helped.

    https://www.avweb.com/flight-safety/...our-in-canada/

  37. #1157
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    Regarding the Icon incident -
    I'm recently familiar with attempting to fly downwind at full power and not being able to climb, but it does seem a bit overconfident to even attempt that takeoff from the origin spot, in that aircraft.

    That said, something I noticed in the video made me zoom in and take a better look at it close up. While it was obviously mushing, the AOA the pilot was pulling trying to clear the trees was a lot. In the heat of the moment and now in that situation, not sure there's much choice.

    But the next frame shows the right wing catches the tree and spins the aircraft sideways. In doing so, it _appears_ that the tail simply snaps off, meaning, it _looks_ like the force of being thrown sideways in the air is enough to snap the empennage off the fuselage.

    While it could be the tail caught something as well, what's the structural history of T-tails in a bad situation like this? It wouldn't have changed the outcome, but if it was purely the force of the air that snapped it, is it cause for concern regarding the empennage structure?


  38. #1158

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    Quote Originally Posted by Farmboy View Post
    Regarding the Icon incident -
    if it was purely the force of the air that snapped it, is it cause for concern regarding the empennage structure?
    To my eyes there was no strike to the tail, it was acceleration and air loads due to the rotation causing the fuselage failure. To my mind, yes it is cause for concern about the structural integrity of that aircraft.
    Many aircraft withstand unexpected accelerations which they structurally withstand. Changes to the fiber orientation in this plane would do it well.
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  39. #1159
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    https://www.9and10news.com/2019/07/2...a-county-lake/


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