I took these in Aniak, AK last fall on a fishing trip. Happened in the summer with pilot allowing jet fuel to be put in aircraft that needed 100LL. All 4 walked away with one limping. It was a short flight from what the fuel truck operator told me.
Oops, darn it...
- Thread starter Anne
- Start date
I took these in Aniak, AK last fall on a fishing trip. Happened in the summer with pilot allowing jet fuel to be put in aircraft that needed 100LL. All 4 walked away with one limping. It was a short flight from what the fuel truck operator told me.
Dan Gervae
FRIEND
Upper Peninsula of Michigan
Just Like Bob Hoover eh?
mike mcs repair
Registered User
chugiak AK
Husky in Lake Norman, NC, Saturday, January 23, 2021
No picture
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JWE
FRIEND
NC30
I can't figure out how to post pics so here is a link to a news picture. Accident happened Saturday, January 23, 2021. Husky in Lake Norman, NC.
https://abc11.com/lake-norman-plane-crash-nc/9945686/
https://abc11.com/lake-norman-plane-crash-nc/9945686/
mike mcs repair
Registered User
chugiak AK
mvivion
SPONSOR
Bozeman,MT
Yep, and the cost of insurance on amphibs just went up again....Ca-Ching! Won’t be long before nobody will be able to afford to insure an amphibious plane. All because pilots get distracted and pretty much ignore all the bells, whistles, Bitching Betty’s, and worst of all, fail miserably in the category of discipline.
Too bad.
MTV
mike mcs repair
Registered User
chugiak AK
With such precise gps you would think it would be a simple app to make to tell you you are about to crash.
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skywagon8a
MEMBER
SE Mass MA6
What are the odds it had the aural gear warning system which gets silenced and ignored?
I question if I could ever be safe flying an amphib. I am way to use to "Gear down - before landing check." way too many years, way too many times. The folks who can afford to buy and insure and pleasure fly amphibs probably have the same background
"Now, let me see....this time its water, leave it up. Next time its pavement, put it down, hey look at that pretty bird, and these mountains are awesome.....whats that threat over there I see...gotta watch out for that log, those rocks, wind shear along the cliff there...." is what would lead to a gear down catastrophe. A new environment with an interrupted thought. very sneaky and incidious.
Mirror mirror on the strut, should my gear be down or up?
I think MAYBE if I marked the gear lever as "Water / Pavement" I might catch on after a few errors. We gotta know our own collective limitations, folks. It does no good to send an arrogant message of stupidity. We gotta understand why....why so many. Who's doing it, why are they doing it, Whats going on, what training will prevent it. But for the grace of God, there go I.
"Now, let me see....this time its water, leave it up. Next time its pavement, put it down, hey look at that pretty bird, and these mountains are awesome.....whats that threat over there I see...gotta watch out for that log, those rocks, wind shear along the cliff there...." is what would lead to a gear down catastrophe. A new environment with an interrupted thought. very sneaky and incidious.
Mirror mirror on the strut, should my gear be down or up?
I think MAYBE if I marked the gear lever as "Water / Pavement" I might catch on after a few errors. We gotta know our own collective limitations, folks. It does no good to send an arrogant message of stupidity. We gotta understand why....why so many. Who's doing it, why are they doing it, Whats going on, what training will prevent it. But for the grace of God, there go I.
I flew a Widgeon, and then spent time with skywagon8a in a Twin Bee when I moved down to New England. Also got my SES in a Lake. Not sure when or who I learned it from, but the call on downwind was ALWAYS “this is a water landing, the wheels are up”, or “this is a land landing the wheels are down”, followed by a double verification of lights and looking at the mirror. After sky checked me out in the Bee, I had to train several of our other corporate department pilots followed by the checkride with sky. My Chief Pilot at the time was a real good stick, the problem was he knew it and he was my boss. He thought the mantra was silly for a guy like him. We’d been doing multiple water landings one day and decided to go to Hampton Airfield for lunch. Downwind, no call and no gear. I let him go till short final and said “say, this might be a good time to put the gear down”. He went around, and after we landed uneventfully we discussed that that landing would have been embarrassing but not fatal. In the water gear down would have been another story.
Grant
FRIEND
At Work.....
No amount of technology will prevent this type of accident. The GPS solution was pretty fully vetted and was unable to provide a reliable indication. There are too many scenarios where you are landing on pavement and over the water when the annuciation would be presented, and other times when landing on the water and over land when the annuciation would be presented. This would lead to the exact problem we have now where by the operator choses to pull the Circuit breaker on the system. The latest AGAS system and Laser gear advisory from Wipare makes an improvement on the technology but as long as we have people who dont use checklists we will have accidents.
mvivion
SPONSOR
Bozeman,MT
mvivion
SPONSOR
Bozeman,MT
Absolutely on your last statement, but it's not stupidity and it's not arrogance.
Frankly, I think all the bells, whistles, bitching Bettys, etc, etc MAY in fact be counter productive. They give the pilot a false sense of security.
When I started flying an amphib, it was a Beaver. The only gear warning system was a pair of mirrors, one under each wing. The gear system was manual, as in a hydraulic pump, and it took a few pumps to get the gear up or down.
The fellow who checked me out in that plane initially, and a couple other old time Goose pilots who gave me recurrent rides in it, tried REALLY hard to get me to make a mistake with the gear. Like really really hard. Distractions by the dozens, even messing with the gear selector when I wasn't looking, ad nauseum.
By the time they were done with me, I simply couldn't take the gear position for granted, ever.
That's the key: You have to KNOW you're capable of doing it...of making that mistake and landing gear down in the water. You CANNOT tell yourself you'd never do that.....because you could, and you might. I know to this day that I have the capability of doing so....
Those thoughts have to be in the forefront of your mind prior to landing. Passengers talking? Before modern intercoms with the "mute" function arrived, I'd just tell them to please be quiet.
NO distractions, EVER, of any kind. If you get distracted, go around, get it together and do it again.
We used the mirrors because they require you to take an ACTION....you have to move your head, look out the windows, focus on those little mirrors, and make an assessment. No Bitching Betty that's really easy to silence or just ignore.....but doesn't REQUIRE you to do anything.....too easy. Oh, and mirrors seldom fail......electricity take a dump? Mirrors still tell you where the gear's at. Have a failure of some kind? There are failures in some of these systems where a gear can be down, but the gear indicators show UP. Seen one of those on a 206.
Bottom line: Operating an amphibious airplane is easy. And it can be VERY safe. But, it requires one thing of the pilot: Discipline. EVERY landing, no exceptions.
When Jack Corey finished checking me out in that Beaver, he told me: "You're a little paranoid about that landing gear. And, that son, is a very good thing-don't ever lose that paranoia".
Many years later, I did a SES with a good friend in a Cub on amphibs. I thought we did a good job. Months later, he called me one day, he'd been taking his young grand daughter for a short hop in his Cub on amphibs. Just take off from the airport, a mile or so to a big lake, and land in the water.....all the while talking to this young lady about the magic of flying-her first ever flight in a plane. You can guess the rest. Fortunately, they were in relatively shallow water, and he was able to get out and help the girl out.
So, I failed him as an instructor pilot....I failed to instill that bit of paranoia in him that Jack had put firmly in my head. I felt terrible, and still do. I can't imagine this gentleman's horror after committing that error. And, yes, he had a gear indicator system, with all the bells and whistles, and he managed to ignore it.
MTV
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RVBottomly
PATRON
Asotin County Washington (KLWS)
All very sobering. Makes me appreciate a guy I know who flies an amphibious Kodiak as well as his wheels-only PA-12.
Even in the PA 12 he always calls out, "land landing, wheels down."
He doesn't care what anyone thinks....
Even in the PA 12 he always calls out, "land landing, wheels down."
He doesn't care what anyone thinks....
mike mcs repair
Registered User
chugiak AK
One of our pilots forgot we put the 185 back on wheels from floats, he called king salmon tower “56j blah blah, for the river at king salmon... the tower guy just replied “well this is going to be interesting...” then reminded him he was on wheels
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mvivion
SPONSOR
Bozeman,MT
And that’s a guy who’s setting himself up for....what? It becomes a “nothing call” on wheels, and if you play that game sooner or later, you’ll get them mixed up.
Discipline, not rote. Geeez!
MTV
Scooter7779h
PATRON
Anchorage, Alaska
Me too. Gear: down and welded, tires not flat, brake pressure both sides....
Now this time a year, wheel skis, select for correct surface skis up or down, fully retracted or fully out both sides, tires turning as skis actuate, valve in full detention, plus brake pressure and tires not flat. Lots of visual confirmation.
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RVBottomly
PATRON
Asotin County Washington (KLWS)
LOL. Well, like I said, he doesn't care.
I do remember him looking out the windows to make sure the wheels were on, though.
mvivion
SPONSOR
Bozeman,MT
A paved runway....is how long? A Husky, even on floats, should be airborne in what..seven hundred feet?
One thing I’ve ALWAYS done on amphibs: Lift off, positive rate-gear is coming up....right now. For this reason. If you get a weird big sink, worst case, you touch on the keels, not a huge deal.....but, water just off the end....gear is up and housed...
Sorry, folks, this stuff is going to make amphibious floats impossible to insure.
Ask Lake Aircraft how that works. They were able to overcome their problem (wasn’t people landing gear down on water) and develop mandatory training programs. But, all the hundreds of thousands of $$ spent on gadgets, and we’re still doing this....regularly.
MTV
mike mcs repair
Registered User
chugiak AK
the engine is ALWAYS just about to quit...... plan accordingly...
aktango58
FRIEND
18AA
One of the best statements here:
NO distractions, EVER, of any kind. If you get distracted, go around, get it together and do it again.
I use the Gump check- and adapt to the plane. Undercarriage- water rudders up for floats, Gear selected proper- (four blue for water, four brown for land and count them, mirror check and count tires) for amphibious; Tires still inflated for strait wheels.
If things happen on any retractable gear plane and I initiate a go-around, I go around the patch and come back. The amphibious planes when treated like the complex plane they are, can be safe, but take the time to do your Gump Check more than once, and don't short cut.
NO distractions, EVER, of any kind. If you get distracted, go around, get it together and do it again.
I use the Gump check- and adapt to the plane. Undercarriage- water rudders up for floats, Gear selected proper- (four blue for water, four brown for land and count them, mirror check and count tires) for amphibious; Tires still inflated for strait wheels.
If things happen on any retractable gear plane and I initiate a go-around, I go around the patch and come back. The amphibious planes when treated like the complex plane they are, can be safe, but take the time to do your Gump Check more than once, and don't short cut.
skywagon8a
MEMBER
SE Mass MA6
How do you determine the tires are inflated? My truck and car have a pressure readout for each tire. Is this system available for planes now?
BC12D-4-85
SPONSOR
Fairbanks, AK.
Perhaps....here's an example product > https://tsttruck.com They offer external caps attached to the valve stem, flow through caps, internal sensors (tubeless) and whatever. There's a remote receiver and the pressure-temperature value range is programmable. Do they work on aircraft?
Gary
hotrod180
FRIEND
Port Townsend, WA
A C170A went missing last week and is presumed crashed in the Strait of Juan de Fuca south of Vancouver island BC.
It was on a flight from Ketchikan non-stop to Pt Angeles WA-- just over 600 miles.
That's really stretching it with stock 42 gallon tanks, even with calm winds & no detouring.
The general consensus here is that it ran out of fuel, pretty much within sight of Pt Angeles.
So close and yet so far.....very sad.
My takeaway from this is don't stretch your fuel:
"when in doubt...don't".
Kathryn's Report: Cessna 170A, N9114A: Fatal accident occurred in Port Angeles, Washington
It was on a flight from Ketchikan non-stop to Pt Angeles WA-- just over 600 miles.
That's really stretching it with stock 42 gallon tanks, even with calm winds & no detouring.
The general consensus here is that it ran out of fuel, pretty much within sight of Pt Angeles.
So close and yet so far.....very sad.
My takeaway from this is don't stretch your fuel:
"when in doubt...don't".
Kathryn's Report: Cessna 170A, N9114A: Fatal accident occurred in Port Angeles, Washington
Farmboy
MEMBER
Middlebury, VT
Some followup on the rudder post issue.
http://www.kathrynsreport.com/2021/...p_505uOIOHwKd6KwjIfh45mEHkxdHyKZIDemZO6gE&m=1
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http://www.kathrynsreport.com/2021/...p_505uOIOHwKd6KwjIfh45mEHkxdHyKZIDemZO6gE&m=1
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