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Thread: Oops, darn it...

  1. #1801
    BC12D-4-85's Avatar
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    Two local Fairbanks Ak. pilots banged their PA-18's within a week. Know them well and they survived. Must be August and soon September with increased seasonal accidents sometimes.

    https://www.asias.faa.gov/apex/f?p=1...CHISANA,N1049P
    https://www.asias.faa.gov/apex/f?p=1...WASILLA,N82566

    Gary
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  2. #1802
    cubdriver2's Avatar
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    Peter, great job keeping your wits with all that was going on

    Glenn
    "Optimism is going after Moby Dick in a rowboat and taking the tartar sauce with you!"
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  3. #1803
    BC12D-4-85's Avatar
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    Aviat Husky N298WY spun in 8/10/20? Pilot used the chute. Flight testing?

    From the daily AIN records: https://www.asias.faa.gov/apex/f?p=1...,GROVER,N298WY

    From Flightrader24 8/10/20. Plot shows it doesn't appear to have returned for landing: https://www.flightradar24.com/data/f...298wy#252dd50d

    Edit: Flightrader24 run plot shows descending at 5,500 FPM+ after what appears to be a slow flight series.

    Gary
    Last edited by BC12D-4-85; 08-11-2020 at 01:58 PM.
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  4. #1804

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    Testing IO-390 engine for certification I think.

  5. #1805
    BC12D-4-85's Avatar
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    Husky above: https://svinews.com/plane-crashes-near-grover/ Lucky pilot. No spin chute?

    Gary

  6. #1806
    Richgj3's Avatar
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    Looks like a flat spin. Registration shows Aviat
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

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  7. #1807
    BC12D-4-85's Avatar
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    There's lots of prior flights recorded on Flightrader 24. Guess that's how they learn and determine loading and flight behavior so customers won't have to (as much). Looks like a strong airframe design with safe factor if the estimated terminal rate of descent is correct.

    Gary
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  8. #1808
    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richgj3 View Post
    Looks like a flat spin. Registration shows Aviat
    With a slow rotation rate since the wings are still straight.
    N1PA
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  9. #1809
    BC12D-4-85's Avatar
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    When testing for certification what's typically the flight program? How do they determine limits like CG and control behavior? I assume those were Aviat's goals given the recorded flight history of circling and airspeed excursions in #1803. Jumping from an out of control ship must be tough.

    Gary
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  10. #1810
    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richgj3 View Post
    Looks like a flat spin. Registration shows Aviat
    Quote Originally Posted by skywagon8a View Post
    With a slow rotation rate since the wings are still straight.
    IF this is a correct assessment of what happened it would be interesting to learn exactly what was done before and during the maneuver which convinced the pilot to leave the plane. During the one flat spin which I encountered during testing, all of the controls were ineffective. Airspeed was zero! The only thing which stopped the flat spin was full power with the engine. Perhaps someone knows the pilot enough to get the straight skinny?

    Quote Originally Posted by BC12D-4-85 View Post
    When testing for certification what's typically the flight program? How do they determine limits like CG and control behavior? I assume those were Aviat's goals given the recorded flight history of circling and airspeed excursions in #1803. Jumping from an out of control ship must be tough.

    Gary
    This is a deep subject upon which books can be written. Basically it depends on what the modification is that is being tested. In this case, I assume it is a modification since the basic airplane has been in production for many years.
    N1PA

  11. #1811
    courierguy's Avatar
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    I walked the tie down area at the Aviat plant Sunday, after breakfast across the street, probably saw that particular plane. When I saw the picture, that terrain looked real familiar. Good on the pilot for making a successful egress, I have met the guy it probably was, when they were doing the testing on the natural gas powered Husky.

  12. #1812
    BC12D-4-85's Avatar
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    For those that are interested in this accident, or other flights when monitored, in addition to the flight path overlay there's links to KML (Google Earth) and raw CSV (estimated flight data - time/speed/altitude/direction) files here: https://www.flightradar24.com/data/f...298wy#252dd50d They offer a 7 day free or like me you can join.

    I downloaded both files. The KML view can be adjusted to give a better angle or horizontal view of the flight. The CSV offers estimated flight data points over time in 3-D . This plane was flown in climbs, slow flight (stalls?), descents, turns, and finally the vertical path during the reported spin. When recovered post flight CSV files are one data set the NTSB downloads from a GPS to generate their accident report plots.

    Gary

  13. #1813
    sjohnson's Avatar
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    C182 at Sulphur Creek

    Today at Sulphur Creek Ranch, Idaho, a C182 landed long, attempted to go around, then aborted. He skidded off the left side of the runway, hit a tree, then caught fire. The pilot was apparently the only one aboard and exited under his own power, but with serious burns on his hands. Life Flight took him out. Temperature was in the low 50s.

    Let's be careful out there.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    photo by W. Miller.
    Make friends, because life isn’t fair.

  14. #1814
    cafi19's Avatar
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    Yikes. Glad he made it out and hope he recovers quickly!

  15. #1815
    Steve's Aircraft (Brian)'s Avatar
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    He’s a friend of mine... called another local pilot friend to let him know it happened.. told us that he could not get his seat belt off right away so was burned pretty bad.. was with a group camping through the weekend...

    Brian


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  16. #1816
    BC12D-4-85's Avatar
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    I've found a seat belt under tension (like holding baggage tight) can be hard to release. Depends on latch design. Some of us keep a knife handy when flying in case we have to cut our way out.

    Gary
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  17. #1817
    Farmboy's Avatar
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    Oops, darn it...

    Not to bring up a seatbelt tangent, but there was discussion on regular latches in one of the other threads as to binding or not. I’m still a believer and staunch proponent of rotary latches. The race car industry is far far more advanced in safety than we are.

    Your life is worth more to you than any government agency. Install and use the best harness available.


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  18. #1818
    algonquin's Avatar
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    ANC FAA put out a letter in ref. To that encouraging just that.
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  19. #1819
    wireweinie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Farmboy View Post
    Your life is worth more to you than any government agency. Install and use the best harness available.

    Sent from my iPhone using SuperCub.Org
    Well said.

    Web
    Life's tough . . . wear a cup.
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  20. #1820
    Farmboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by algonquin View Post
    ANC FAA put out a letter in ref. To that encouraging just that.
    If someone had a copy of that letter to share, it may put some certified owners at ease about installing a better harness.


    Transmitted from my FlightPhone on fingers...

  21. #1821
    www.SkupTech.com mike mcs repair's Avatar
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    last year's mid-air, with some survivors... you may need to disable javascript to read it if not a subscriber...

    https://www.adn.com/alaska-news/avia...ear-ketchikan/

    NTSB stuff
    https://dms.ntsb.gov/pubdms/search/h...=0&TXTSEARCHT=

  22. #1822
    Farmboy's Avatar
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    Still tragic and sad.
    Worse so is that the event will be based on the accounts of the survivors.

    Much like history is written by the winner.


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  23. #1823
    G44's Avatar
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    This device cuts seatbelts like butter! Also breaks glass effortlessly though not an issue with our Ledany or plexi its a great tool for the car also. Cheap! Buy some and zip tie a few at various locations in your airplane so every passenger can reach one.

    https://www.battlbox.com/products/re...iABEgIxm_D_BwE

    Kurt
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  24. #1824
    www.SkupTech.com mike mcs repair's Avatar
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  25. #1825
    RVBottomly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Farmboy View Post
    If someone had a copy of that letter to share, it may put some certified owners at ease about installing a better harness.


    Transmitted from my FlightPhone on fingers...
    I think this is the one: https://www.faa.gov/aircraft/gen_av/...lderpolicy.pdf
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  26. #1826
    mvivion's Avatar
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    Ugliness coming out on the midair on the Kenai. Pilot of the cub no valid medical, and plane unairworthy. Reason for denial: vision.

    https://www.adn.com/alaska-news/avia...-registration/

    MTV
    Last edited by mvivion; 08-25-2020 at 09:18 PM.
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  27. #1827
    BC12D-4-85's Avatar
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    Issues with color vision? It would seem most of the rest are corrective with surgery or optics. Sad airworthiness deal to get oneself into and now the buzzards are circling.

    Gary
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  28. #1828
    www.SkupTech.com mike mcs repair's Avatar
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    he was a politician.... sadly he still got 39% of the votes so far.. still counting...

    here's the NTSB preliminary report
    https://app.ntsb.gov/pdfgenerator/Re...=HTML&IType=LA

  29. #1829
    Crash, Jr.'s Avatar
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    The really unfortunate part is that his disregard for being legal isn't going to hurt him, but it will cost his family and estate in civil court. He really should have gotten that plane legal and at least tried for a special issuance over his vision for his family's sake.
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  30. #1830

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    Why do so many lawmakers believe themselves above the law? It’s a real problem.
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  31. #1831
    mvivion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BC12D-4-85 View Post
    Issues with color vision? It would seem most of the rest are corrective with surgery or optics. Sad airworthiness deal to get oneself into and now the buzzards are circling.

    Gary
    Color vision is a pretty easy deal. Either issued with restriction on night flight for third class or get a SODA.

    Im betting this was something else.

    MTV
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  32. #1832
    BC12D-4-85's Avatar
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    I remember when Dick McIntyre from Frontier Flying Service and Frontier Sporting Goods in Fairbanks contracted macular degeneration (or some similar vision challenge to flying). He went and did as much for as long as he could then resigned himself to an honorable retirement.

    As a former WWII B-17 pilot: “I once asked him how he became a lead pilot at the rank of captain,” Edward wrote. “He said, ‘Everybody else kept getting killed.’ But although his plane suffered much battle damage, sometimes losing two engines, he never lost a crewman.”

    Gary
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  33. #1833
    S2D's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Heinrich View Post
    Why do so many lawmakers believe themselves above the law? It’s a real problem.

    Unfortunately, many including myself have been guilty of thinking "as long as I'm by myself what does it matter?? " If I kill myself I've only got myself to blame.
    I may be wrong but that probably won't stop me from arguing about it.
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  34. #1834
    mvivion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by S2D View Post
    Unfortunately, many including myself have been guilty of thinking "as long as I'm by myself what does it matter?? " If I kill myself I've only got myself to blame.
    It is pretty easy to rationalize, indeed. Tough deal.

    MTV
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  35. #1835
    BC12D-4-85's Avatar
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    From what I've seen these accidents tend to suck in more than air behind the pilot. Eventually the Gov't, landowners, family, friends, maintenance and parts services, plus legal professionals can get involved. Anybody that touched or knew of the plane or pilot during their respective lives can be examined. I'd not want that even though it was just me initially involved.

    Gary
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  36. #1836
    Eddie Foy's Avatar
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    It said vision problems. Where did it precipitate to color vision problems?
    Quote Originally Posted by mvivion View Post
    Color vision is a pretty easy deal. Either issued with restriction on night flight for third class or get a SODA.

    Im betting this was something else.

    MTV
    "Put out my hand and touched the face of God!"

  37. #1837
    BC12D-4-85's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eddie Foy View Post
    It said vision problems. Where did it precipitate to color vision problems?
    I speculated "issues with color vision?" as it's the typical for first run eye exam problems. MTV noted it was likely something else. Nobody knows but the examiners.

    Gary
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  38. #1838
    Eddie Foy's Avatar
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    Maybe that is why we should wait for the report!

    Quote Originally Posted by BC12D-4-85 View Post
    I speculated "issues with color vision?" as it's the typical for first run eye exam problems. MTV noted it was likely something else. Nobody knows but the examiners.

    Gary
    "Put out my hand and touched the face of God!"

  39. #1839
    BC12D-4-85's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eddie Foy View Post
    Maybe that is why we should wait for the report!
    Yes, you're right.

    Gary

  40. #1840
    www.SkupTech.com mike mcs repair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eddie Foy View Post
    Maybe that is why we should wait for the report!
    Never


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