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Thread: Oops, darn it...

  1. #3201

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    Low Res video, been watching the show all morning.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=egCE...nnel=AgijaVaga

  2. #3202

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  3. #3203
    Gordon Misch's Avatar
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    Clearer video. That's just totally horrible.

    https://twitter.com/BNODesk/status/1...7Ctwgr%5Etweet
    Gordon

    N4328M KTDO

  4. #3204
    Farmboy's Avatar
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    Oops, darn it...

    Horrible horrible tragedy.
    Looked like from Cobra bank angle he never saw the 17, following in trail of two other fighters.
    Cut the fuselage off right behind the wings.

    https://youtu.be/-uLk48ajFLk


    Transmitted from my FlightPhone on fingers…
    Last edited by Farmboy; 11-12-2022 at 04:11 PM.

  5. #3205
    aktango58's Avatar
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    Very sad.

    Now I realize why even small events they have some serious discussions ahead of time to ensure spacing.


    Condolences to those involved and those left behind.
    I don't know where you've been me lad, but I see you won first Prize!

  6. #3206

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    OMG, I’m sorry for the friends and families who lost loved ones and for the witnesses of this heartbreaking event.

    It takes your breath away. Thankfully they didn’t appear to suffer for long.
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  7. #3207

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    I have absolutely no experience in how these demonstrations are flown, but I was there today and the winds were very gusty. I would imagine it could have been very easy to be a few seconds off timing with the winds today.

  8. #3208
    BC12D-4-85's Avatar
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    Was this a planned simulation intercept of the Bomber? Terrible end.

    Gary

  9. #3209

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    And while you guys chat about an airshow accident, as sad as it is, few comment on Josh Seagrave’s accident. Ex Army Ranger. Army Ranger parachute trainer. Cub driver. Cub builder. A guy who lived a big life and had more life ahead of him…
    I’ll miss him. I already do. The absence of his Cub on the ramp is impossible to overlook. Life isn’t fair. Godspeed, Josh. Thanks for being you.

  10. #3210

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    Quote Originally Posted by stewartb View Post
    And while you guys chat about an airshow accident, as sad as it is, few comment on Josh Seagrave’s accident. Ex Army Ranger. Army Ranger parachute trainer. Cub driver. Cub builder. A guy who lived a big life and had more life ahead of him…
    I’ll miss him. I already do. The absence of his Cub on the ramp is impossible to overlook. Life isn’t fair. Godspeed, Josh. Thanks for being you.
    This one hits me hard too,,, my wife and were just reading his father's tribute. It also got thinking of what would become of those I leave behind if I die in the saddle. My affairs are in order,, I've done my estate planning, have a will, have a plan as not to burden my loved ones and leave them hoping a Go Fund Me will save them. I know that flying comes with risk,, I accept those, I try not to do stupid things, but sometimes still do. If heaven forbid, I end up on this thread,, I say this here, I will have died doing something that gives me great joy. If there is photos and video of it, I hope others could learn from my mistakes and not make the same. This incident only reinforces the lessons I learned in helicopters about route recons and hazard maps. I do this type of flying often, and will be even more cautious. But tomorrow, I'm going flying.....
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  11. #3211
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    I read Josh's Dad's Facebook post, hard to read. He must have been in a bank when he hit the line, wing on the opposite side of the river. Friend made that point yesterday as we discussed. I hit a line and was lucky enough to walk away with a broken arm and a fractured jaw. I fly high cover first now.

    As for the B17 and P63, very poor visibility from a Kingcobra. There are several videos that show different angles. Look like the Cobra was wider in his turn than the P51 ahead of him. When i attended airshow briefings many years ago they stacked the different types. Bombers at one altitude and fighters at another. Also staggered their track lines. Crowd could not tell from their vantage point.
    Steve Pierce

    Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects.
    Will Rogers
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  12. #3212
    aktango58's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stewartb View Post
    And while you guys chat about an airshow accident, as sad as it is, few comment on Josh Seagrave’s accident. Ex Army Ranger. Army Ranger parachute trainer. Cub driver. Cub builder. A guy who lived a big life and had more life ahead of him…
    I’ll miss him. I already do. The absence of his Cub on the ramp is impossible to overlook. Life isn’t fair. Godspeed, Josh. Thanks for being you.
    Sad for sure.

    Godspeed, and condolences to family, you and other friends.

    Life is not fair, we never know how much time there is left. My brother, a Naval Academy Graduate, had been involved in all sorts of dangerous situations at sea- major drug busts, doing damage assessments on burning/sinking ships, Persian Gulf attacks... only to come back to shore for post grad school at the War College and died in a rugby game while playing with the college team.

    No sense to things other than they needed more angels to watch over us that remain.

    God Bless
    I don't know where you've been me lad, but I see you won first Prize!
    Thanks JeffP, tedwaltman1, Bill Rusk, Bowie thanked for this post
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  13. #3213

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    Click image for larger version. 

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    St Augustine today, anyone know the details. They say the pilot is a okay so that is a big plus for this week.

  14. #3214

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    Edit: haha I was thinking Augustine island up here- this makes more sense...
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  15. #3215

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    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	D4114910-16FE-4AF2-B3A1-263522F86A3E.jpeg 
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    here is another shot of it

  16. #3216
    Bill.Brine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Farmer Ted View Post
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	D4114910-16FE-4AF2-B3A1-263522F86A3E.jpeg 
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    here is another shot of it
    Banner tow plane


    Sent from my iPhone using SuperCub.Org mobile app

  17. #3217
    Flyingde's Avatar
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    I’ve never seen a tow plane with bushwheels and a belly pod.

    Edit: Found a pic of it picking up a banner at some point. Learn something new all the time I guess. Lol
    Last edited by Flyingde; 11-14-2022 at 04:41 PM.

  18. #3218
    BC12D-4-85's Avatar
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    Gary
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

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  19. #3219
    Flyingde's Avatar
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    Reportedly doing a beach erosion survey.

    https://www.news4jax.com/news/local/...each-fhp-says/

  20. #3220

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    With an unusually close-up view!
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  21. #3221

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    What’s mounted above the dash?

  22. #3222
    wireweinie's Avatar
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    Probably his mustache now.

    Web
    Life's tough . . . wear a cup.
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  23. #3223
    BC12D-4-85's Avatar
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    Look at the video here: https://www.news4jax.com/news/local/...each-fhp-says/

    Note the black appendages to the belly pod. My guess it's a camera system to record beach erosion (his alleged activity at the time), and the gizmo above the dash is a video monitor.

    Edit: Could also be topographic LiDAR equipment as that's popular along coastal areas.

    Gary
    Last edited by BC12D-4-85; 11-14-2022 at 10:02 PM.

  24. #3224
    aktango58's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oliver View Post
    What’s mounted above the dash?
    More stuff to obscure pilots' view of traffic?
    I don't know where you've been me lad, but I see you won first Prize!

  25. #3225
    courierguy's Avatar
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    “I feel badly we were in his way. I didn’t think he was landing or I didn’t know what he was doing.” Said witness and beach goer Julie Zoog, what a women!

    Reminds me of the first time I met the new owners of the 40 acres below and off to the right of my place (new, after being in the same local family for 100+ years) his wife said, first thing : "if there's ever anything we can do to make your flying in and out of your place easier, just let me know." She can do no wrong, as long as we are neighbors.
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  26. #3226

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    If that cub wasn’t totaled after the landing it will be after that attempted recovery.

  27. #3227
    BC12D-4-85's Avatar
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    Notice they removed the belly pod and its valuable electronic contents

    Gary

  28. #3228

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    Quote Originally Posted by TcraftF21 View Post
    If that cub wasn’t totaled after the landing it will be after that attempted recovery.
    not if they get that spinner down into the sand and help the tail up to begin and then catch the tail when it comes over. only way i can see to do it unless theres a football team nearby. belley pods got to come off. thinking about it i would take the spinner and prop off also and mount a 2x8 or something on the crank.
    Last edited by tempdoug; 11-15-2022 at 01:49 PM.
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  29. #3229

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    A easy way to get a plane off its back by hand is take an old Bushwheel tire or truck inner tube and stick it on the nose as you bring it over. Get some guys and walk it upright, make sure you have some ropes on the tail for stability and to help pull. As it go's over the top get some people to catch it as it comes down so you don't bend the airframe. A helicopter with a rope on the tail makes flipping a plane a 5 min job, usually the cheapest, and easiest way, you will spend more time thanking/paying the pilot than what it takes to do the flip. We get them flown in from the bush upside down a lot. NOTE: If the local wrench turners have not had experience in doing this anything can turn into a major goat rope.
    DENNY
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  30. #3230

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    sometimes there is no time to find a tire or you"re out and back somewhere dig a hole and use a a rope
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  31. #3231

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    Spinner crushed, prop bent, wings bent, airframe certainly bent, laying in salt water... For God's sake, don't scratch it when flipping back over!
    Thanks bcone1381 thanked for this post

  32. #3232
    55-PA18A's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stewartb View Post
    Spinner crushed, prop bent, wings bent, airframe certainly bent, laying in salt water... For God's sake, don't scratch it when flipping back over!
    Well, you’ve got to protect that data plate !
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  33. #3233
    wireweinie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sixmile View Post
    sometimes there is no time to find a tire or you"re out and back somewhere dig a hole and use a a rope
    That was my thought. It's on a beach, just dig a hole for the engine.

    Web
    Life's tough . . . wear a cup.
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  34. #3234
    BC12D-4-85's Avatar
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    Insurance job? Maybe the owner's better off with something else in the end so revenue won't be down long.

    Gary
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  35. #3235
    hotrod180's Avatar
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    I've heard the best thing to do with an airplane after ditching in salt water is to immerse it in fresh water for a while.
    Cessna Skywagon-- accept no substitute!
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  36. #3236
    algonquin's Avatar
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    Sorry to say but it’s done. The FAA will pull the airworthy Cert. after going into Salt Water. Seems they feel it’s done when that happens. Salt will get into tubing if any breaks etc.
    just good no bad injuries, planes are replaceable.

  37. #3237
    gbflyer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by algonquin View Post
    Sorry to say but it’s done. The FAA will pull the airworthy Cert. after going into Salt Water. Seems they feel it’s done when that happens. Salt will get into tubing if any breaks etc.
    just good no bad injuries, planes are replaceable.
    Is that something new? Haven’t had a certified airplane in several years so I don’t know.

  38. #3238

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    Not my experience... Kinda ridiculous when you can buy all those parts new. But then again, they don’t like us replacing all the old parts with new at the same time...
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  39. #3239
    BC12D-4-85's Avatar
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    N88452 7GCBC 12/7/16: https://data.ntsb.gov/Docket?ProjectID=94474

    Today: "Jury finds pilot blameless in fatal crash, awards widow $3.5 million. The estate of Mike Kelly sued Washington-based Micro AeroDynamics for damages, holding that Kelly was not made aware of the possibility of a tail stall after having vortex generators installed on his aircraft."

    Previous NTSB finding: "There was no guidance provided by Micro AeroDynamics on how to determine adverse effect or how to conduct a subjective evaluation flight test. The manufacturer provided no information on how the slow flight characteristics would change what is published in the POM."

    Gary
    Last edited by BC12D-4-85; 11-17-2022 at 02:21 PM. Reason: spell

  40. #3240
    frequent_flyer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BC12D-4-85 View Post
    N88452 7GCBC 12/7/16: https://data.ntsb.gov/Docket?ProjectID=94474

    Today: "Jury finds pilot blameless in fatal crash, awards widow $3.5 million. The estate of Mike Kelly sued Washington-based Micro AeroDynamics for damages, holding that Kelly was not made aware of the possibility of a tail stall after having vortex generators installed on his aircraft."

    Previous NTSB finding: "There was no guidance provided by Micro AeroDynamics on how to determine adverse effect or how to conduct a subjective evaluation flight test. The manufacturer provided no information on how the slow flight characteristics would change what is published in the POM."

    Gary
    NTSB does not appear to include the final accident report in the docket. It can be found by going to CAROL basic search and entering the NTSB number:

    https://data.ntsb.gov/carol-main-public/basic-search
    ANC17FA009

    I found no mention of "tail stall" in the NTSB report.

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