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Thread: Oops, darn it...

  1. #2201

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    Hopefully the video and photos don’t get uploaded...sometimes these things should stay a bit private...if pilot and owners like to share, then great...good not to speculate! Thankful things turned out as good as they did for the pilot!
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  2. #2202
    Alex Clark's Avatar
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    Hopefully the video and photos don’t get uploaded...sometimes these things should stay a bit private.
    Not going to be able to keep it a secret when the newspaper and TV published photos all over the place. The cat is out of the bag.
    Float and Tailwheel CFI,
    Dragonfly Aero
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    dragonfly@alaska.net

    http://www.floatplanealaska.com

    or http://www.dragonflyaero.net

  3. #2203

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    No secret. It’s simply nobody’s place to publish it.

  4. #2204
    Crash, Jr.'s Avatar
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    Agreed. Posting it would only invite speculation and judgement. Thought better about digging it up after some reflection.

    The pilot did a fine job in a bad situation and thankfully got out with only minor injuries.
    Last edited by Crash, Jr.; 04-01-2021 at 12:06 AM.

  5. #2205
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skysurfer View Post
    Attachment 55029Early this month. Hopefully a good learning lesson; what not to do!Attachment 55027Attachment 55028
    A 185 bringing climbers out of Mt. Logan didn't quite make the jump and hit the other side, killed the pilot, (not wearing a shoulder harness). Look at your site from all directions!

    Rereading Stewarts description of the last seconds and impact, it is amazing that the pilot survived. Anyone getting a bird down in that area without involving lots of cars or buildings did a good job.

    I hope the pilot doesn't have any lasting injury. Plane can be fixed.
    I don't know where you've been me lad, but I see you won first Prize!

  6. #2206

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    I didn’t understand that one. An airplane has the ability to scope out the area prior to landing. I’ve come over a rise on a snowmachine on a glacier to see a gaping crevasse. I barely got turned in time. A year later I lost a friend who wasn’t as lucky. I don’t ride glaciers much since. How that happens in an airplane? I don’t get it. Another extraordinarily lucky outcome.

  7. #2207

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    Quote Originally Posted by stewartb View Post
    I didnít understand that one. An airplane has the ability to scope out the area prior to landing. Iíve come over a rise on a snowmachine on a glacier to see a gaping crevasse. I barely got turned in time. A year later I lost a friend who wasnít as lucky. I donít ride glaciers much since. How that happens in an airplane? I donít get it. Another extraordinarily lucky outcome.
    He may have known there was a crevasse, but misjudged the distance. The manager of the local Schwann's branch told me that he wouldn't let his drivers back up after they parked in someone's yard, as he said that they would too often forget their surroundings and back into something, even if they had just walked around their trucks prior to backing up. Once their minds were distracted by the customers, their initial memory of the spatial reference was gone or altered. Maybe the pilot saw the crevasse, but after loading up and visiting, forgot how close it was or what angle he needed to go to miss it. If so, he should have oriented his plane away from it or marked the route he needed to depart from immediately upon shutdown, before he interacted with the passengers.

  8. #2208
    courierguy's Avatar
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    So, how deep would that crevasse likely be? Or is that the bottom that we can see? Deep enough it appears to cause a real bad day, but surely not hundreds of feet? I'm getting quivery just looking at that, wow, what a ride that must have been and what a lucky SOB. Must have been some fast snow that day, maybe he nailed the landing multiple times before in other conditions, but slicker snow (looks powdery), maybe a bit of tailwind, other things on his mind. One of the most amazing ski flying pics I've ever seen.

    I made my first off airport landing yesterday after taking the skis off, and I found myself after takeoff, looking back to see my tracks and to judge my landing, then I realized, no tracks! I miss that in wheel flying.

  9. #2209
    aktango58's Avatar
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    We are taught that crevasses are bottomless. Been recent incidents where they found some climbing gear at the edge, and nothing. people go in, and down, and get wedged. Yes, can be hundreds of feet deep.

    If I were doing the recovery, it would be with Pioneers 208, in harnesses, one guy tied off walks in and hooks up plane, lift out and set to side, then net it away from that crevasse. The next day it could just fall in!
    I don't know where you've been me lad, but I see you won first Prize!
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  10. #2210

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    My favorite non-fiction book ever. Even when the best of the best go out fully prepared with the best equipment? Stuff happens. If you enjoy glaciers and winter sports this is a must-read.

    https://www.amazon.com/Minus-148-Deg.../dp/0898866871

    A teaser- https://www.nationalparkstraveler.or...-mckinley23978
    Last edited by stewartb; 04-01-2021 at 11:15 AM.
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  11. #2211

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    Yes, I believe it was Pioneer 208, unless it was Soloy 205. Video I got was grainy and distant but looked like Pioneer setting it into Girdwood. They do good work.

  12. #2212

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    Quote Originally Posted by Skysurfer View Post
    Yes, I believe it was Pioneer 208, unless it was Soloy 205. Video I got was grainy and distant but looked like Pioneer setting it into Girdwood. They do good work.
    208? Not familiar....... Wrote it off as a typo when George referenced it, now just curious.

  13. #2213

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    Bell's predecessor to the 212. I did not know Pioneer had a 208, it may have been a typo. The more common UH 1B (205) (for the operators locally) is good for 4000 pound lift, depending.
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  14. #2214

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    Ya, I think there was like one 208 built as a prototype in the 60’s, never produced. Pioneers website shows a UH1B which is actually the military version of the 204, slightly smaller than the 205 (UH1H). The military surplus models are restricted category, while the civilian produced counter parts are normal category.
    Last edited by mam90; 04-01-2021 at 08:48 PM. Reason: cause my original post looked like I was being argumentative when I reread it. which wasn’t my intent. ..

  15. #2215
    cubdriver2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by luke_herron1 View Post
    He may have known there was a crevasse, but misjudged the distance. The manager of the local Schwann's branch told me that he wouldn't let his drivers back up after they parked in someone's yard, as he said that they would too often forget their surroundings and back into something, even if they had just walked around their trucks prior to backing up. Once their minds were distracted by the customers, their initial memory of the spatial reference was gone or altered. Maybe the pilot saw the crevasse, but after loading up and visiting, forgot how close it was or what angle he needed to go to miss it. If so, he should have oriented his plane away from it or marked the route he needed to depart from immediately upon shutdown, before he interacted with the passengers.
    Something I do on floats when I'm landing water with some underwater hazards. I started using my phone camera to take a couple pictures when over flying where I want to land. Later on I can refresh my memory looking at the photos.

    Glenn
    "Optimism is going after Moby Dick in a rowboat and taking the tartar sauce with you!"
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  16. #2216
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    Quote Originally Posted by stewartb View Post
    My favorite non-fiction book ever. Even when the best of the best go out fully prepared with the best equipment? Stuff happens. If you enjoy glaciers and winter sports this is a must-read.

    https://www.amazon.com/Minus-148-Deg.../dp/0898866871

    A teaser- https://www.nationalparkstraveler.or...-mckinley23978
    Off topic but in response to Stewart's post on the hazards of crevasses and mountain climbing. Jim Wickwire's book, "Addicted to Danger" is awesome.
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  17. #2217
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skysurfer View Post
    Bell's predecessor to the 212. I did not know Pioneer had a 208, it may have been a typo. The more common UH 1B (205) (for the operators locally) is good for 4000 pound lift, depending.
    My knowledge of actual models is slim, so you guys are mostly likely correct on the actual model. It was a military version, and restricted category that I watch work. The pilot could play checkers with the long line- that was the important part.
    I don't know where you've been me lad, but I see you won first Prize!
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  18. #2218

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    Quote Originally Posted by aktango58 View Post
    My knowledge of actual models is slim, so you guys are mostly likely correct on the actual model. It was a military version, and restricted category that I watch work. The pilot could play checkers with the long line- that was the important part.
    Yep, I only asked because it’s been a while since I was flying the medium lift ships, and there are a few limited production Bell’s out there like the 210 and 214. Thought maybe I missed one. Having done a fair amount of long line work “back in the day”, I really appreciate watching a good long line pilot.
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  19. #2219

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    Crevasse rescue

    I have a fellow who works for me who is on our wilderness response team. He is on the small side. One summer a tourist fell into a crevasse on Worthington glacier. The whole story is completely miraculous but the Reader's Digest version is that the 16 year old high school foot ball player lineman fell into the crack. Chris was the third rescuer lowered in to try and get the kid out. It was over 50 feet down and the cracks don't just go straight down, they bend forward as the glacier goes over the hill. Chris was lowered in and the kid was wedged in like a cork and had kept melting deeper into the glacier the longer it went (to a point). Chris was in so tight that he had to turn his head and feet sideways to get low enough and then just got a rope around the kid's elbow. The kid went unconscious and Chris had to pull him to the side and then people pulled the kid to the surface by the rope to his elbow. The kid had a heart attack when he got to the top because the cold blood suddenly hit his heart. They did CPR and miraculously flagged down the Alyeska pipeline patrol helicopter to get him off the glacier and then life flighted to Anchorage. The kid's body temperature was the second lowest ever recorded to survive in Alaska. With all the crap on TV I don't know why no one made a movie of this. There were about 10 absolute chance things that happened for the outcome to be successful. I think of that when riding on glaciers. This doesn't even begin to coverall all the stuff that happened. To start a foreign tourist happened to have a satellite phone but didn't know where he was when he was making the call to the 911 center in Palmer and could only say he was next to a glacier. A Valdez cop in town somehow overheard the radio chatter and figured that they must be talking about Worthington and the rescue began. Unbelievable story. He was in the glacier for 5 hours and his core temp was said to be 75 degrees.
    https://www.adn.com/alaska-news/arti...se/2012/07/06/
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  20. #2220
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  21. #2221
    BC12D-4-85's Avatar
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    Early April's record snow and current cold in Alaska was forecast several days ahead of its arrival. A major SW plume of moisture came inland from the Bering Sea. Anybody that ignored that information and decided to go camping on a mountain directly in its path took unnecessary risks.

    Gary
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  22. #2222
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    Note this line in the article.

    The group requested a rescue Saturday morning “due to limited survival resources,”

    I bet they had an InReach though.

    Jerry
    If it looks smooth...it might be

    If it looks rough...it is!!
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  23. #2223

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    "Shelter in place at the Sheldon Chalet"......"My I have some caviar with my wine and cheese while we wait for this pesky Alaska WX to clear"......
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  24. #2224
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    And a good credit card with high limit if they sheltered in place at the Sheldon Chalet Hilton

    Quote Originally Posted by cubflier View Post
    Note this line in the article.

    The group requested a rescue Saturday morning “due to limited survival resources,”

    I bet they had an InReach though.

    Jerry
    =========
    PA-12 fan
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  25. #2225

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    My employee was just in on another glacier rescue in Valdez yesterday. I donít know the whole story but evidently a guyís snow machine broke down way up the Valdez Glacier and he was trying to walk out. He did have some gear but eventually made a snow cave to rest while soaked. He had been on the glacier for 40 hours! Treated for hypothermia. Use your head, be prepared but when you screw up and the chips are down there are really competent people who will do all they can to help you. Must be a human thing. Cool stuff!
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  26. #2226

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    Pretty amazing that nobody was injured in this one. One plane was severely damaged yet managed to land, and the other deployed a parachute and drifted safely to the ground.

    https://www.adn.com/nation-world/202...o-one-injured/

  27. #2227

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    Oops, darn it...

    I was in Centennial tower years ago and watched a near miss. 17R and 17L are offset 17left is longer and right traffic sees it and conflicts with 17L final traffic
    The one I saw missed by feet with the controller repeatedly asking if the twin that overshot had visual on runway..he was cleared to 17R but was looking at 17L
    Obviously same scenario


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  28. #2228
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    News last night said each parallel runway has a separate frequency. I thought that was a bit odd. A person couldn't hear advisories for possibly conflicting traffic unless one was monitoring the other frequency.

  29. #2229
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    Quote Originally Posted by tedwaltman1 View Post
    News last night said each parallel runway has a separate frequency. I thought that was a bit odd. A person couldn't hear advisories for possibly conflicting traffic unless one was monitoring the other frequency.
    The Cirrus pilot was advised of the Metro and called it in sight.
    MTV

  30. #2230

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    I hated flying into Centennial when they were using parallel operations. Same with Boeing Field.
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  31. #2231
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    I actually think the cirrus pilot was calling the traffic in sight as the other traffic previously mentioned by the controller, not the Metro.

    If you look at the track logs one of the contributors in my opinion was the excessive speed the cirrus driver was carrying. 165-170 kts on baseleg makes it hard to turn corners to final. He overshoots his runway _and_ the parallel runway. Even if he was aiming to rollout on Left he would not have made it.

    Audio recording with ATC is also worth a listen.
    - Metro pilot cleared to land. Then declares emergency and stated thinks he lost the right engine. My opinion is he suddenly yawed right and there was an explosive sound, and his gut reaction was his right engine blew up. I donít think he knew the true cause until perhaps other radio calls. And as he simply taxied to parking I donít think he knew the damage extent until shutting down and getting out.

    - They must teach well out there, as apparently next in line was a kid on his first solo, and he called out the midair, accident site location as if he had seen it before.


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  32. #2232
    Farmboy's Avatar
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    One other note, that metro is a tough bird to lose 50%!of its circular structure and not drop the tail.


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  33. #2233
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    I would have loved to have seen the Metro pilot's face when he got a look at what was left his airplane, priceless! The good news is, both engines are fine. If a Metro is a "small" airplane, I guess I fly a itsy bitsy one.

    Why did I immediately think the Cirrus pilot was most likely at fault?
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  34. #2234

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    you tube channel “Dan Gryder -Probable Cause”
    does a brief breakdown on the incident.
    his perspective is the most logical I’ve seen so far.
    Operating VFR and ILS traffic simultaneously on parallel runways is a recipe for this kind of incident.
    unbelievable everyone walked away.
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  35. #2235
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    If the Cirrus hit a few feet lower into the floor of the Metro things would've got real ugly.

  36. #2236

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oliver View Post
    you tube channel “Dan Gryder -Probable Cause”
    does a brief breakdown on the incident.
    his perspective is the most logical I’ve seen so far.
    Operating VFR and ILS traffic simultaneously on parallel runways is a recipe for this kind of incident.
    unbelievable everyone walked away.
    Exactly. We used to fly into KBFI a lot, and flying a jet (or anything, but a jet in landing configuration at VREF is slower to respond) on a stabilized approach to 14R while watching a student pilot on left base to 14L is unnerving at best. Anyone can slightly overshoot final, and in the case of these runways and the ones at KAPA, the time to respond and avoid a collision is almost non existent. Just the distraction of needing to watch this traffic is a risk factor, plus they always generated a red target on TCAS.
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  37. #2237
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    Don't think that the Cirrus pilot ever saw the Metroliner. The traffic in sight was the Cessna ahead of him lining up for 17R.

    Quote Originally Posted by mvivion View Post
    The Cirrus pilot was advised of the Metro and called it in sight.
    MTV
    "Put out my hand and touched the face of God!"
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  38. #2238

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    Saw on fox last night...theyíre blaming it on ATC. That the aircraft were on different frequencies.


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  39. #2239
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    Oops, darn it...

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark_Moyle View Post
    Saw on fox last night...theyíre blaming it on ATC. That the aircraft were on different frequencies.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro
    I call BS on that theory. No interaction from either controller communication or pilot communication was cause for the incident. ATC tapes are clear.

    Ironically the controller that turned the F16 and 150 into each other a few years ago should have been blamed, and hardly got a mention.


    Transmitted from my FlightPhone on fingers...
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  40. #2240
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    "Optimism is going after Moby Dick in a rowboat and taking the tartar sauce with you!"

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