S2D
MEMBER
Montana
Are you saying he didn't make that initial 90 turn to the left ??? The plane did it against his will ??
Oops, darn it...
- Thread starter Anne
- Start date
Are you saying he didn't make that initial 90 turn to the left ??? The plane did it against his will ??
BC12D-4-85
SPONSOR
Fairbanks, AK.
Forward float area can be affected by crosswind and move the nose downwind. Later versions employ two small stabilizer fins at the end of each horizontal stabilizer. Originally DeHavilland installed a large ventral fin to maintain longitudinal stability, but some complained it hit things so Kenmore (I believe) came up with the alternate. The effectiveness of the two in a crosswind might be interesting to know.
The fin's effectiveness may be airspeed enhanced. Edit: DeHavilland recommends a max crosswind component of 10 mph at 90 deg for takeoff and landing in all configurations.
Gary
The fin's effectiveness may be airspeed enhanced. Edit: DeHavilland recommends a max crosswind component of 10 mph at 90 deg for takeoff and landing in all configurations.
Gary
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My perspective as a guy who's familiar with that route in those winds in my own planes? He lost control of the flight very early after becoming airborne. Nobody turns toward floatplane point on purpose. He had the nose high and the wind took the plane. Why he kept it so nose high is a mystery. Once over the slow taxi canal it appears he had full RH aileron trying to keep it heading east. The left turn looks to be the result of a stall. I don't think it's hard to see. As some of us have said on this thread, how he got there makes no sense. Keep in on the step to gain speed, keep it low to the water to use the buildings to block the wind and gain speed, fly over the E-W channel, and start climbing abeam DOT, essentially where the video was being shot.
skywagon8a
MEMBER
SE Mass MA6
I see a lot of talk about what are the ailerons doing? How about some right rudder? Did he have the rudder trim set for take off? Maybe he just didn't compensate for the P factor of the R-985? Besides having the nose too high for the conditions.
skywagon8a
MEMBER
SE Mass MA6
COOL! Thanks, I used to be a Flight Engineer on a DC-6. Every once in a while I would get to fly a leg. Wonderful flying machines, like a big four engine Aztec. One time when I was in Kotzebue a DC-6 taxied in and what do you know, it was one of the ones I used to fly. He had been flying it off the beaches hauling fish. The Airline I flew it for had bought it brand new.
TurboBeaver
Registered User
Northern Maine
Pete,
To answer your question on fuel, they barge fuel down Cook Inlet to a road; that crosses the hills into the east end of Lake Illiamna, via 18 wheeler with tanker behind it. Or Moody's out of Dillingham, could also bring it up from Seattle to Bristol Bay, and then come up Kvichak River into Lake Iliamna, however there is no way to continue up the Newhalen River to barge it thru 6 mile Lake, onto Lake Clarke that I know of ?? So I suspect fuel at Allworths is via Everett's Air fuel..... So barged fuel in Illiamna; but not into PA, unless things have changed.
To answer your question on fuel, they barge fuel down Cook Inlet to a road; that crosses the hills into the east end of Lake Illiamna, via 18 wheeler with tanker behind it. Or Moody's out of Dillingham, could also bring it up from Seattle to Bristol Bay, and then come up Kvichak River into Lake Iliamna, however there is no way to continue up the Newhalen River to barge it thru 6 mile Lake, onto Lake Clarke that I know of ?? So I suspect fuel at Allworths is via Everett's Air fuel..... So barged fuel in Illiamna; but not into PA, unless things have changed.
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Yes Everett's still flies all the time out of Kenai PAEN to all parts in the bush. They routinely do a arrival and or departure right over my hangar at AA16, The pilot is a friend , and my wife told him he better let us know when he departs and arrives so we know he is back. What a thriller to see these old birds still living the dream of flight.
skywagon8a
MEMBER
SE Mass MA6
This reminds me of the time I visited Bud Helmericks at his home on Walker Lake. He had a good sized sailboat there. I asked him how they got it there with no roads. They flew it in, in A C-130 landing on the ice.
aktango58
FRIEND
18AA
They had a C-47 that still had the navigator bubble in the rear cockpit section! Used to see them lots out on the Kusko and Yukon.
flylowslow
Registered User
STL
I had an incident in which Wentworth Aircraft removed my aircraft when I was not present. Should I be worried about their position on dismantling aircraft? Anybody had an issue with this company before? My buddy thinks they probably sawzalled my wings off. Minimal damage in our opinion.
Blue Skies,
Den
Blue Skies,
Den
TurboBeaver
Registered User
Northern Maine
Back in early 1980's Buddy Woods (Warren's Dad) delivered
100's of thousands gallons of fuel out into lodges and villages in western Alaska in a PBY !!! The best of the best
In the real " Bush Pilot" world. Watched him work his Otter commonly in Illiamna with so many propane bottles seamed like you were unloading a DC3! He would fly in wicked east wind; landing in tricky places, and make it look awful easy. And for those that have never had a buzzjob from a DC-6 that's got all four burning Brite, 20' above ya, you never really been buzzed! The "Woods family" will go down in the history of Alaska Aviation with the Wien's/ Reeve's, Peterson's. To list a few. Buddy had no peers.
100's of thousands gallons of fuel out into lodges and villages in western Alaska in a PBY !!! The best of the best
In the real " Bush Pilot" world. Watched him work his Otter commonly in Illiamna with so many propane bottles seamed like you were unloading a DC3! He would fly in wicked east wind; landing in tricky places, and make it look awful easy. And for those that have never had a buzzjob from a DC-6 that's got all four burning Brite, 20' above ya, you never really been buzzed! The "Woods family" will go down in the history of Alaska Aviation with the Wien's/ Reeve's, Peterson's. To list a few. Buddy had no peers.
Years ago I wrecked a plane in a remote area. (California remote, not Alaska remote)
My insurance provider contacted a regional guy to recover the wreck.
We all met at a pre determined staging spot - helicopter, myself and salvage guy.
The salvage guy showed up alone, and pushing 350 lbs looked like a walking heart attack in the 80° heat of the morning.
I kindly offered to take his place on the heli to fly out and prep and rig the plane for transport. In hindsight, the plane was definitely totaled but I held on to some glimmer of hope that I’d fly her again.
With that mindset, I went to work delicately rigging lifting hardware, making ever-so-small slits in the fabric where needed to brace wings etc..
Was feeling pretty proud of my handy work as the heli took up the full weight of the plane, watching it fly perfectly level (though inverted) off to an unknown future.
The heli returned to bring me back to the staging area. Upon return, I was absolutely shocked and disgusted to see the salvage guy in the process of removing the wings - with a sawzall!
Sensing my rather upset state, he looked at me and said “it’s not your plane anymore”. And he was right, though I don’t think he was doing any favors to the insurance company by further destroying what little auction value the plane may have held.
My insurance provider contacted a regional guy to recover the wreck.
We all met at a pre determined staging spot - helicopter, myself and salvage guy.
The salvage guy showed up alone, and pushing 350 lbs looked like a walking heart attack in the 80° heat of the morning.
I kindly offered to take his place on the heli to fly out and prep and rig the plane for transport. In hindsight, the plane was definitely totaled but I held on to some glimmer of hope that I’d fly her again.
With that mindset, I went to work delicately rigging lifting hardware, making ever-so-small slits in the fabric where needed to brace wings etc..
Was feeling pretty proud of my handy work as the heli took up the full weight of the plane, watching it fly perfectly level (though inverted) off to an unknown future.
The heli returned to bring me back to the staging area. Upon return, I was absolutely shocked and disgusted to see the salvage guy in the process of removing the wings - with a sawzall!
Sensing my rather upset state, he looked at me and said “it’s not your plane anymore”. And he was right, though I don’t think he was doing any favors to the insurance company by further destroying what little auction value the plane may have held.
mvivion
SPONSOR
Bozeman,MT
The key to keeping a dH airplane flying is lowering the nose. In that video, as Stewart suggested, when the plane appears in the climb, he’s already losing it, nose high and out of ideas. Aileron position is just going to influence which way it rolls off, but with the nose honked up like that, he was all done flying. He cheated that plane-never let it fly.
I was checked out in the Beaver by Jack Corey. Corey pointed out that he was something of an expert in deHavilland aircraft stalls, having wrecked a heavy Single Otter when working for Ward Gay. He beat me up something fierce with stalls straight ahead, turning, climbing, descending, etc. A few years later, I found myself painting that plane into a corner of the flight envelope, and didn’t want to have to explain the result to Jack…..lowered the nose and flew away.
MTV
Steve Pierce
BENEFACTOR
Graham, TX
Wentworth makes a lot of money on their salvage. I would be very surprised if the took a sawsall to a perfectly good wing.
john schwamm
SPONSOR
Anchorage, Alaska Carefree, AZ
Got a kick out of the accident report today about Carbon Cub in lake at Talkeetna, said "the landing gear made contact with the water and aircraft flipped in lake".
Guess maybe that water skiing attempt was an abrupt bath on that one! Makes one wonder why try it.
John
Guess maybe that water skiing attempt was an abrupt bath on that one! Makes one wonder why try it.
John
cubdriver2
FRIEND
upstate NY
BC12D-4-85
SPONSOR
Fairbanks, AK.
Not necessarily - that Wing Thing: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/no-one-can-explain-why-planes-stay-in-the-air/
Even they aren't sure, but nobody asks a bird why they flap their wings.
Gary
Even they aren't sure, but nobody asks a bird why they flap their wings.
Gary
skywagon8a
MEMBER
SE Mass MA6
Some people spend too much of their lives cooped up in a classroom wearing tinfoil hats while being supported by government grants.
sj
Staff member
Northwest Arkansas
mvivion
SPONSOR
Bozeman,MT
Yes, Steve, but significantly more so in dH airplanes. I suspect part of it has to do with the relative angle between the wing and fuselage, thus a pilot perception issue.
Complicating this is not having a big flat or slightly rounded cowling out in front of you. Your perspective over a round cowl is different, and you need to develop other visual cues than the view over the nose.
With flaps deployed, they’ll tolerate more, but coming off the water, loaded, ground effect is your friend, and quite a few pilots have done precisely what this fellow did, and didn’t allow the wing to fly.
MTV
aktango58
FRIEND
18AA
Well said Pete.
To add on MTV's comment about wings and angle of incidence, remember the otter you point it DOWN to climb.
Vortex Generator
Registered User
If you hadn't cashed the settlement check and relenqueshed the aircraft that was a false statement by the insurance representative. This is one of the reasons insurance has become unaffordable.
I heard it was on amphibs and the pilot forgot that one little thing before landing.
john schwamm
SPONSOR
Anchorage, Alaska Carefree, AZ
Makes more sense, but still a quick bath, immediate inversion! At least he had something to float on to not have to swim.
BC12D-4-85
SPONSOR
Fairbanks, AK.
We lost another good pilot and person. Doug will be missed> https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/281506
It's August and hunting season so be careful.
Gary
It's August and hunting season so be careful.
Gary
