Oops, darn it...

[stoldriver]

Falcon Field here in Arizona had a bit of a blow couple of nights ago. My 180 received minor damage but enough to keep me from a trip to Idaho I had planned.
It was windy enough that my airplane lifted off to the limit of the ropes and was sitting on top of my chocks rope on the right tire. I faired way better than a bunch of folks.

This building was a business putting interiors in. It used to have siding but the siding is now spread far and wide. Lots of planes upside down.
There's quite a few more. Here's a photo of a stack of three airplanes.

About 90 hangar doors were damaged. Here's a row that did not fair well.

Those doors are not open, they're gone.

Wayne

[Richgj3]

Nightmare. Glad you got away with minor damage. Saw this over on Beechtalk. Those T hangars look like they are wood framed. Is that true?

[SJ]

Another one from yesterday.. https://www.chilkatvalleynews.com/st...ash/17386.html

[stewartb]

re: Peltola

https://alaskapublic.org/2023/09/28/...-meat-antlers/

[cub yellow]

One extra trip would have made the difference... Sad!!

Bp

re: Peltola

https://alaskapublic.org/2023/09/28/...-meat-antlers/

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[Brian M]

One extra trip would have made the difference... Sad!!

Bp

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Maybe. Obviously the plane was heavy, but there are things we don't know.

[BC12D-4-85]

He flew for many years and hours I believe. Just another haul. No chance for avoiding. Get 'er done. Sad.

Gary

[ak49flyer]

Doesn’t sound very heavy to me- pretty common to put a whole moose in and fly away- and most of them would be a bit north of 500lbs…

[ak49flyer]

Duplicate

[BC12D-4-85]

Can unsecured moose parts slide around in the belly pod?

Gary

[ak49flyer]

Not if it’s full!��

[BC12D-4-85]

Not if it’s full!��

“About 150 pounds of meat was found in the forward section of the belly pod" Must not have been full.

Gary

[DENNY]

Location of 150 lbs of meat in the pod AFTER a crash means nothing!!!!
DENNY

[salex]

If possible, without impugning our departed pilot, would some of you offer thoughts on the effects of the positioning of the moose antlers as can be seen on the picture on Must Read Alaska and some philosophies on the best directions for securing them and for minimizing aerodynamic effects. I have done a few external loads with caribou antlers, but only one with moose antlers. The external loads of caribou antlers were almost undetectable. The moose antlers were nerve wracking! I would have never positioned them in the way shown in the picture, but maybe it is very common and maybe even be best for reasons I do not understand. Thoughts?

[BC12D-4-85]

Location of 150 lbs of meat in the pod AFTER a crash means nothing!!!!
DENNY

Well Denny, it means something if they weren't loaded forward to begin with. The hunters would know. If they moved from loaded position (aft or forward) during the crash that may mean something. And, loose your !!!!. We're all in this together.

Edit: My point was> if the load can shift> did it do that during takeoff possibly affecting CG? Apparently it was found forward as expected during an impact. That's all. Chill.

Gary

[sixmile]

I tie moose antlers even or parallel with the wing. I tell packers leave the nose on and weave it between the wing struts. big difference how it effects the tail

[aktango58]

[QUOTE=cub yellow;851904]One extra trip would have made the difference... Sad!!

Bp

Calling BS on this statement. Most cub pilots have flown their planes over 2,000 pounds at one time or another, they get there quick with fuel and passengers.

Unknown if a load shifted back, gusty winds over the ridge made things untenable, or a number of other factors. Lots of reasons can make things go bad quickly.

I am NOT advising to load cubs heavy and go fly, but I am also willing to say they fly with loads in excess of Gross Weight increases available; might not be a good move, but the plane will fly if you can keep your airspeed.

Sad day, I do hope they can determine the actual cause. No matter what it is, I do hope we all work well within all the weather, load and experience elements and stay safe out there. Been enough carnage this year.

[cub yellow]

Good points and we'll taken.. Thanks.


Bp

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[stewartb]

I’m both appreciative and surprised at the NTSB’s statements about this accident. They definitely have worded the report differently than most. Was the plane over gross? Probably, but that’s probably not the cause of the crash. Was the external load legal? Probably not, but it’s also likely not the cause. A shift in CG? That’s plausible. Bad luck with the wind? My guess is it was probably the aggregate of several things that aligned at the worst time. Airplane crash 101.

[salex]

I tie moose antlers even or parallel with the wing. I tell packers leave the nose on and weave it between the wing struts. big difference how it effects the tail

Thanks, 6M.
I chuckled of the "weaving" of the moose nose, but can sort of visualize what you mean. As for the "parallel" part - that means the inboard (fuselage) side of the antlers would be above wing struts and the outboard side of the antlers would be below the wing struts?? Skull/nose part would be outboard of jury strut to minimize tail turbulence created by the innermost antler half even if yaw effect was greater??

[StudentPilot479]

philosophies on the best directions for securing them and for minimizing aerodynamic effects.

An outfitter had a loss of control event immediately after getting airborne with moose antlers, having flown them many times before. He landed straight ahead on rough ground but nothing broke. Immediately after that he insisted moose antlers be cut at the base of the pedestal (although some clients insisted on cutting the skull in half) and loaded in the cabin. Slightly more annoying to load meat with antlers in the cabin, but no stress about added drag or blanking the tail.

[mvivion]

I've flown quite a few external loads, and sometimes one seemingly minor variable changed can cause a load to fly "different". The bigger and "uglier" the load, the more likely it is to fly ugly at some point. Moose antlers are right up there. That said, a lot of moose racks have gone home on the struts of Cubs.

As to legalities, the majority of "Outfitters" in Alaska are operating their aircraft under Part 91, and assuming they've complied with the requirements of the Alaska Region of FAA's "Policy on Carriage of External Loads on Fixed Wing Aircraft", carrying moose antlers as an external load is legal.

And, FYI, for those who think this is heavy, consider that the CC-18-180, which is structurally almost identical to the PA-18, was certificated under Part 23 at 2300 pounds all up weight.

Not suggesting it's okay to fly a PA-18 certificated at 1750 at 2300, mind you.....but it's been done, and didn't result in an accident. I've done it in Public Aircraft, legally. Not, mind you, what I would call intelligently. So has Buzzy, I'm betting.....

But, there appears to have been a number of variables related to this accident: Possibly Weight, Location of loaded CG, unknown wind conditions, low light, unprepared site, possible mechanical issue, etc, etc, etc.

Way too early and far from enough information to make a fair assessment.

RIP Friend.....

MTV

[RaisedByWolves]

[QUOTE=aktango58;851983]

One extra trip would have made the difference... Sad!!

Bp

Calling BS on this statement. Most cub pilots have flown their planes over 2,000 pounds at one time or another, they get there quick with fuel and passengers.

Unknown if a load shifted back, gusty winds over the ridge made things untenable, or a number of other factors. Lots of reasons can make things go bad quickly.

I am NOT advising to load cubs heavy and go fly, but I am also willing to say they fly with loads in excess of Gross Weight increases available; might not be a good move, but the plane will fly if you can keep your airspeed.

Sad day, I do hope they can determine the actual cause. No matter what it is, I do hope we all work well within all the weather, load and experience elements and stay safe out there. Been enough carnage this year.

None of us would ever fly over 2000 lbs with a stock cub


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[Steve Pierce]

And, FYI, for those who think this is heavy, consider that the CC-18-180, which is structurally almost identical to the PA-18, was certificated under Part 23 at 2300 pounds all up weight.

Actually there are quite a few differences structurally in both the fuselage and the wings. Has their been an in flight structural failure, I doubt it.

[BC12D-4-85]

Here's an opinion piece regarding the sad Peltola crash. Has some comments I'd not heard before, so don't take it as all fact. The author writes well, and has a history of in depth research of outdoor Alaska.

https://craigmedred.news/2023/10/02/deadly-flights/

Gary

[scout88305]

Very well liked pilot in the STOL community. Tough few months

https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/346161

[stewartb]

Dooley Vanyo... wow. RIP. I wonder if Rusty was in the plane? No mention in the news articles.

[mvivion]

Actually there are quite a few differences structurally in both the fuselage and the wings. Has their been an in flight structural failure, I doubt it.

Actually, I should have noted that the CC-18 is virtually identical aerodynamically to the PA-18, not structurally.

MTV

[scout88305]

His pup wasn't in the plane.

[scout88305]

https://www.flyingmag.com/2021-high-...ly-in-gallery/

[courierguy]

His pup wasn't in the plane.

When I go on solo back country trips, with no one (including me) knowing where I'm going or expected to be back (yeah, I know) my biggest concern is if something did happen, the dog and cat would hopefully be looked after, well the dog anyway, the cat can handle itself. Not to be flippant, but I am glad to hear Rusty was not onboard, though I never met Dooley, that I recall.

[stewartb]

A little more on Dooley-

https://mustreadalaska.com/report-cr...ka-bush-pilot/

[stewartb]

A YouTube summary says Dooley was flying with another plane and was landing on a ridge. He made a pass and did a go-around. He hit rocks with the gear and crashed about a mile after. Apparently the gear was compromised and the video says the NTSB is looking at the gear fitting-wing strut fitting area very closely. I have no idea how the presenter would know that but it may be true. The comments about his last call sort of make sense. There was a witness so maybe we’ll learn what happened eventually.

[Farmboy]

- “I’m flying, but I’m having problems.” NTSB issues the preliminary report into the fatal accident involving a Cub Crafters CCK-1865 Carbon Cub, N56DV, that occurred on October 1, 2023, near Twisp, Washington:

On October 1, 2023, about 1030 Pacific standard time, an experimental amateur-built Cub Crafters CCK-1865, N56DV, was substantially damaged when it was involved in an accident near Twisp, Washington. The pilot was fatally injured. The airplane was operated as a Title 14 Code of Federal Regulations Part 91 personal flight.

The pilot planned to take a local flight with his friend, who owned the same make of airplane. They departed a private airfield in their respective airplanes and flew directly to a hillside located about 2 nm away. The friend landed uphill on the slope of the hillside and positioned his airplane to the west of a tree. Using the radio, he communicated to the pilot that he should land his airplane in between his airplane and the tree. The pilot made two low passes over the ridge, performing reconnaissance over the landing area. The friend observed the airplane touchdown on the slope further to the east of his location and land upslope. After a short landing roll, the pilot appeared to abort the landing and the airplane became airborne again. The airplane then collided with a large rock resulting in the airplane’s left landing-gear folding under the fuselage.

The friend observed the airplane continued over the ridge to the east (the presumed bail-out path) and then he lost sight. He asked the pilot if he was okay and the pilot replied “I’m flying, but I’m having problems.” The airplane collided with terrain shortly thereafter. The airplane came to rest about 1,700 ft to the northeast of the rock with an approximate 3,430 peak between the locations (Figure 1).

The wreckage was found distributed over a 90 ft distance on a median magnetic bearing of about 250°. The first identified points of contact consisted of disrupted dirt on the upslope of a hillside making up the far northeastern end of the debris field. The disruption in the terrain contained chips of silver paint and small pieces of fabric. The disrupted dirt widened into a crater that continued toward the wreckage with numerous vortex generators in the dirt and outboard wingtip structure. A large portion of the forward left-wing tip was 25 ft from the wreckage and pieces of plexiglass and splinters of propeller led up to the wreckage. There were fragments of the wooden propeller surrounding the accident site, and made up the farthest debris to the south.

The fuselage came to rest on its left side with the right wing folded forward over the engine (see Figure 2). The left wing sustained crush deformation and came to rest inverted. The left forward and aft lift struts had separated, but remained attached to their respective fittings on the fuselage and wing. An approximate 1.5 ft piece of the left aft-lift strut remained attached to the airframe; the trailing edge of both portions of that strut contained black marks consistent with the rubber from the tire. The flaps appeared to be partially down and the fuel selector was in the off position (it could not be confirmed if this was done by first responders).

Both tires came to rest on near the belly pod. The left tire was flat and showed several gouges and scrapes on the rubber; the metal hub was bent and folded over itself in one area (see Figure 3). The landing gear struts were collapsed the bottom of the left struts were separated and appeared to have been worn from being dragged across terrain.

The fuselage frame behind the left lift-strut fork and gear-strut connection fittings was deformed. The left-aileron pulley, located adjacent to the deformed frame, would not move. The aileron cable was trapped between the frame and the pulley and could not move (see Figure 4). Removal of the pulley hardware revealed that pulley bracket was bent and there was evidence of the cable rubbing against the bracket and part of the airframe. The phenolic pulley had a groove for the cable that extended around the pulley. The groove contained a peak edge on each side. One side of the peak edge was fractured, consistent with overstress. The side face of the pulley, adjacent to the fractured peak edge) contained a long, imprinted streak consistent to the location where the cable had pulled out/de-railed from the groove

The initial touchdown area could not definitely be determined, but tracks in the dry grass were found on the slope consistent with the landing direction. A large rock was located on the saddle of the hill. There were numerous marks and scrapes found on the south rock face and on the top of the rock (see Figure 5). In the surrounding area, there was several silver chips of paint and a zip-tie that would have been on the landing gear

The Dynon primary flight display was sent to the NTSB laboratory for download.

- Report:
https://data.ntsb.gov/carol-repgen/a...ort/193167/pdf


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[Farmboy]

Transmitted from my FlightPhone on fingers…