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Oops, darn it...

One question in mind, is that an honor or a felony?
If it was just a landing gear/tire strike against a wing I can see it being a "non issue" in some peoples minds. But it is still a true issue. The person probably "felt something" but might not have recognized it as an impact with another aircraft.

On the other hand, it IS Alaska....just sayin. I tried to track down a guy who'd rebuilt an airplane I owned once, not to bitch, but to simply ask questions. Finally found out he was living in a bush village. So, I flew there, asked around, found out where he lived, and knocked on the door. Lady comes to door...."Nope, he don't live here." I explained (loudly) precisely why I wanted to talk to him....about this plane. He comes out of the back room, and says, "come on in".

Turns out he was dodging the IRS.

MTV
 
Turns out he was dodging the IRS.

MTV[/QUOTE]

There was a time that a Trooper had a subpoena with my name on it and was ordered to track me down. We laughed about it a year later, has he had visited my parents, on orders, knowing full well I was working on the fishing fleet. I wasn't hiding, but I sure was not interested in helping the greedy lawsuit folks either.:evil:

Funny how hard or easy it can be to be found when you do or don't want to be.
 
Turns out he was dodging the IRS.

MTV

There was a time that a Trooper had a subpoena with my name on it and was ordered to track me down. We laughed about it a year later, has he had visited my parents, on orders, knowing full well I was working on the fishing fleet. I wasn't hiding, but I sure was not interested in helping the greedy lawsuit folks either.:evil:

Funny how hard or easy it can be to be found when you do or don't want to be.[/QUOTE]

Didn't you have a hideout in New Hampshire a few years ago?

Glenn
 
Pretty sure he had another “vacation” in Oklahoma since then too. I’ll have to remember to call Eaton when the need arises.


Sent from my iPhone using SuperCub.Org
 
I don’t see why it’s a “true issue”. If there’s no damage to his plane, who cares? What are they going to do, tell him not to fly so close to another aircraft? I sincerely doubt he has any desire to repeat the experience- let him clean his underwear in peace...
 
I don’t see why it’s a “true issue”. If there’s no damage to his plane, who cares? What are they going to do, tell him not to fly so close to another aircraft? I sincerely doubt he has any desire to repeat the experience- let him clean his underwear in peace...

How about paying for the damage he/she caused? Might just want to land with the other plane, make sure everyone is ok and figure out what went wrong. Just seems like the right thing to do.
DENNY
 
He may not have known it was another plane until he saw the news- at which point he knew everyone was ok. “Caused” seems pretty rich- just because he happened to be the one with no damage doesn’t make him at fault. At this point I’d say thank God for a good outcome of a normally terrible situation and move on. If I was the other guy, I certainly wouldn’t be complaining about a little bent metal at this point...
 
Since I’ve been there, I don’t like to hypothesize on others in a surprise situation.

But man…. It sure seems like this was super avoidable long before it happened?

http://www.kathrynsreport.com/2021/10/jabiru-j230-sp-n728j-accident-occurred.html

BOONES MILL, Virginia - No one was hurt in an incident involving a small plane and a Virginia State Police car.

State Police say the pilot of a small plane wasn’t able to switch fuel tanks during flight and made an emergency landing Monday evening on Apple Road in Franklin County. That’s in the Boones Mill area. The pilot stayed with the plane overnight and fixed the fuel issue, but did not attempt a takeoff Monday night because of darkness.

Late Tuesday morning, the pilot practiced a dry takeoff run to see if the plane could get fast enough to lift off, according to police. As he slowed the plane after the test run, he couldn’t get the plane stopped in time because of a gravel road, and hit a parked Virginia State Police car with the left wing of the plane.

No one was in the car at the time.


Transmitted from my FlightPhone on fingers… [emoji849]
 
What a Cluster F***

Since I’ve been there, I don’t like to hypothesize on others in a surprise situation.

But man…. It sure seems like this was super avoidable long before it happened?

http://www.kathrynsreport.com/2021/10/jabiru-j230-sp-n728j-accident-occurred.html

BOONES MILL, Virginia - No one was hurt in an incident involving a small plane and a Virginia State Police car.

State Police say the pilot of a small plane wasn’t able to switch fuel tanks during flight and made an emergency landing Monday evening on Apple Road in Franklin County. That’s in the Boones Mill area. The pilot stayed with the plane overnight and fixed the fuel issue, but did not attempt a takeoff Monday night because of darkness.

Late Tuesday morning, the pilot practiced a dry takeoff run to see if the plane could get fast enough to lift off, according to police. As he slowed the plane after the test run, he couldn’t get the plane stopped in time because of a gravel road, and hit a parked Virginia State Police car with the left wing of the plane.

No one was in the car at the time.


Transmitted from my FlightPhone on fingers… [emoji849]
 
Sad. I will say, I'm glad I did a training course in my carbon cub before I bought it. The thing will get very slow with power on in slow flight, as in less than 25 mph TAS hanging on the prop, staying level at what seems like 20 degrees nose up. BUT: when it breaks, it's almost an instant incipient spin to the left. Really eye opening.
 
Narwhal....does the rudder have any effect during the break-spin? P-torque can pull it left under higher power but not news

Gary
 
Narwhal....does the rudder have any effect during the break-spin? P-torque can pull it left under higher power but not news

Gary

Yes, the rudder is effective to stop the spin from fully developing but the left wing drop can be pretty immediate especially if you make the classic mistake of trying to keep the wings level at all with ailerons. It can be difficult to stay coordinated in those high pitch attitudes as you lose sight of the horizon over the nose. Nothing that can't be avoided with proper training but I can see how it could bite people.
 
Sad. I will say, I'm glad I did a training course in my carbon cub before I bought it. The thing will get very slow with power on in slow flight, as in less than 25 mph TAS hanging on the prop, staying level at what seems like 20 degrees nose up. BUT: when it breaks, it's almost an instant incipient spin to the left. Really eye opening.

My RANS S-7S will do the same, when I push it hard enough. Power held in, near and sometimes even full power. The trick is to have it happen with the tires 6" off the ground.....when I finally get a hard break out of it, followed by a left bit of yaw, (what would happen next I can imagine, if I wasn't already touching down) I know I am landing as absolutely slow as the thing can go, and that's REAL slow, mid 20's best guess. I don't use this technique often, but I like knowing it's there if I need it. Doing it inadvertently, I'd have to be asleep as it is pretty obvious, I guess that's where knowing the aircraft well comes in.
 
.... especially if you make the classic mistake of trying to keep the wings level at all with ailerons.

It is a mistake for anyone who learned to fly in gliders and/or who has a lot of time in rag wing tail draggers. Isn't it true, however, that ab initio pilots of modern airplanes are taught to use coordinated aileron and rudder to raise the falling wing? If pilots trained that way go on to do a bit of glider flying or a bit of rag wing flying their instincts may be totally wrong.

I was taught long ago that stick stayed centered and only rudder was used to catch the falling wing. That technique would be condemned by recently minted airplane instructors and has been by many in discussion on pprune.
 
It is a mistake for anyone who learned to fly in gliders and/or who has a lot of time in rag wing tail draggers. Isn't it true, however, that ab initio pilots of modern airplanes are taught to use coordinated aileron and rudder to raise the falling wing? If pilots trained that way go on to do a bit of glider flying or a bit of rag wing flying their instincts may be totally wrong.

I was taught long ago that stick stayed centered and only rudder was used to catch the falling wing. That technique would be condemned by recently minted airplane instructors and has been by many in discussion on pprune.

Yep! PPrune, while occasionally useful for tidbits of technical info can be a real cesspool when it comes to actual flying techniques, specifically given the ab-initio airline flying background of most of its users.

Anyhow, in regard to this sad javron cub accident I will be interested in reading the NTSB report and will leave it at that. I was just surprised how quickly a cub will drop a wing in a power on stall compared to a cessna, and it seems like the slower you get before the stall breaks, the quicker the wing will drop when it finally happens; caveat being that I only have 20 hours in cub types and maybe a dozen stalls.
 
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Narwhal it's off topic, but I'd ensure your Cub is rigged per specs...both wing and empennage...then accept the fact that the Cub elevator is effective and lighter than any Cessna I've flown. Cessna by design made the elevator force heavy and offered trim to assist. At the stall under power the prop pulls the plane left and reactive torque rotates the airframe opposite the prop's rotation. Ball has to stay in the middle or they will go their own way. You know this but it's something to think about over and over.

Gary
 
I was just surprised how quickly a cub will drop a wing in a power on stall compared to a cessna, and it seems like the slower you get before the stall breaks, the quicker the wing will drop when it finally happens; caveat being that I only have 20 hours in cub types and maybe a dozen stalls.

I have not had a Cub drop a wing in a power on stall. This surprises me because a series on power on , power off, flaps, no flaps is one of the first things I do in any Cub I fly.
 
I have not had a Cub drop a wing in a power on stall. This surprises me because a series on power on , power off, flaps, no flaps is one of the first things I do in any Cub I fly.
Some people are not taught that the rudder pedals are not just foot rests. :roll:
 
Yes. ANY plane will drop a wing if you are uncoordinated. Some more angrily than others.
Mine gets angrier with a guy in the back. It might be wise to explore slow flight/stalls with a willing passenger. May have contributed to this accident.
 
I have not had a Cub drop a wing in a power on stall. This surprises me because a series on power on , power off, flaps, no flaps is one of the first things I do in any Cub I fly.

Give it time. You will. I did a demo flight in a Scout right out of the factory. First stall…nothing aggressive, thing got right on its back. Flew really nice after it was properly rigged. Unfamiliar planes, I’m ALWAYS on high alert, and EVERY one gets stalled early.

MTV
 
I have written and erased several times. My understanding is this was not a stock cub, nor a stock Javron, (which is basically a stock cub). The flaps and ailerons had extended cord, and the pivot point was changed to try to alleviate the change in leverage required. The wing leading edge had a different shape. And I believe there may have been some other structural changes in the wing. I do not know if he had VG’s on the wing. I do not know the consequence of these changes, and we may never know. My prayers to the family left behind.


Bill
 
All I can say about the tragedy above is that we lost a good one. He was a very capable as a pilot, a combat vet, and a great family man with a wonderful family. If there ever was an all around great guy he was that guy. Definitely the type of person that would give you the shirt off his back in times of need.

The picture below is a 2007 picture of him in his PA12 out living life.

He will be missed and his family will always be in our thoughts.

Jerry

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This happened today at my airport. Globe Swift that hadn’t moved in years was being run up in its tie down.

Also got a 172 and a Mooney.
 

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