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Thread: Oops, darn it...

  1. #1481
    www.SkupTech.com mike mcs repair's Avatar
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    and another medical crash, and it was at unalaska(in route to Adak).....

    don't think I'd like being a flight nurse... that's 3 dead, in 3 medivac crashes in a short period of time up here

    you may need to disable javascript to get past the paywall... https://www.adn.com/alaska-news/avia...board-rescued/

    https://www.ktuu.com/content/news/Li...567046231.html

  2. #1482
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike mcs repair View Post
    and another medical crash, and it was at unalaska(in route to Adak).....

    don't think I'd like being a flight nurse... that's 3 dead, in 3 medivac crashes in a short period of time up here

    you may need to disable javascript to get past the paywall... https://www.adn.com/alaska-news/avia...board-rescued/

    https://www.ktuu.com/content/news/Li...567046231.html
    I wouldn't want to own one of those outfits and have to pay next year's insurance bill either.....

    Terrible deals, when these folks are sincerely trying to assist someone who needs help....

    MTV
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  3. #1483
    www.SkupTech.com mike mcs repair's Avatar
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    KTUU link changed

    https://www.ktuu.com/content/news/LifeMed-medecac-plane-crashes-on-takeoff-from-the-Unalaska-Airport-567046231.html


    Imagine if you were the one(s) waiting in Adak for that plane to arrive.....

    so 3 crashes since Nov 29 2019 of medivac planes here...

    the Irony is the one boat shown "Resolve Marine’s vessel Makushin Bay" "Resolve" is the owner of the plane that landed on the frozen lake a couple weeks ago in last medivac crash.....

    anyone here what happened on that? did they get it off the lake??

  4. #1484

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    Isn’t this the same outfit who put a Platus down, gear up just, on a frozen lake.... after departing Koliganek a few weeks ago?


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  5. #1485
    www.SkupTech.com mike mcs repair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark_Moyle View Post
    Isn’t this the same outfit who put a Platus down, gear up just, on a frozen lake.... after departing Koliganek a few weeks ago?


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    no, different company, first 2 were chartered by medevac Alaska...

    but the irony is, the salvage company on this wreck, in the ADN article "resolve marine" owned the Plane that landed the Platus gear up on the frozen lake by Koliganek a couple weeks ago....

  6. #1486
    BC12D-4-85's Avatar
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    Brisk variable winds reported from the east (~1700Z +39F Wind 11015G22)and a NW departure. Big hill nearby to mix things. I'm amazed and thankful they got into a raft and were rescued quickly. The plane will get salvaged.

    Edit: And Civil Twilight was around 1830Z/09:30 LCL +- overcast attenuation.

    Gary
    Last edited by BC12D-4-85; 01-17-2020 at 02:56 AM.
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  7. #1487
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike mcs repair View Post
    ...Imagine if you were the one(s) waiting in Adak for that plane to arrive.....
    I was a passenger in a Stearman crash last year,
    took the stick (or something) in the ribs & was in a lotta pain(!).
    Medics weren't sure what was damaged so they medivac'd me to Seattle.
    First airplane crash, and first helicopter ride.....
    That thing was really rattling & shaking,
    I couldn't help thinking it'd be a helluva thing to have something come apart & crash a second time.
    Cessna Skywagon-- accept no substitute!

  8. #1488
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    Quote Originally Posted by hotrod180 View Post
    I was a passenger in a Stearman crash last year,
    took the stick (or something) in the ribs & was in a lotta pain(!).
    Medics weren't sure what was damaged so they medivac'd me to Seattle.
    First airplane crash, and first helicopter ride.....
    That thing was really rattling & shaking,
    I couldn't help thinking it'd be a helluva thing to have something come apart & crash a second time.
    There have been medevacs I'm aware of where the injured person had survivable (but uncomfortable) injuries, but was killed in the ensuing medevac aircraft accident. Bad deal.

    MTV
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  9. #1489

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    One of the issues with civilian Medevac’s, in my opinion, is when the dispatch and/or flight crew decision making is driven by a “we need to save a life” mindset. Firefighters entering burning buildings, LEO’s running toward gunfire, etc. is NOT the same thing as a medevac flight crew performing their duties. When I was Chief Pilot/DO of a company that did medevac’s, we treated the flight no different than any other charter. It was a struggle due to the extremely competitive nature of Hospitals who would operator shop if we turned down a flight. When you put a crew in a nice looking flight suit with wings, park them in a ready room for 24 hour shifts, give them short windows to be airborne, well you are helping set the stage for some of the problems the industry has experienced. Not throwing darts or implying these men and women aren’t extremely motivated, professional and well intentioned. Just sharing my opinion based on my experience.
    Mark

  10. #1490

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    Quote Originally Posted by mike mcs repair View Post
    KTUU link changed

    https://www.ktuu.com/content/news/LifeMed-medecac-plane-crashes-on-takeoff-from-the-Unalaska-Airport-567046231.html


    Imagine if you were the one(s) waiting in Adak for that plane to arrive.....

    so 3 crashes since Nov 29 2019 of medivac planes here...

    the Irony is the one boat shown "Resolve Marine’s vessel Makushin Bay" "Resolve" is the owner of the plane that landed on the frozen lake a couple weeks ago in last medivac crash.....

    anyone here what happened on that? did they get it off the lake??
    As of last weekend the PC12 was still on the lake. Not sure if anything would have changed since then.
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  11. #1491
    www.SkupTech.com mike mcs repair's Avatar
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    Oops, darn it...

    pictures of the plane in water... explains it!

    https://www.kucb.org/post/lifemed-plane-still-lingers-unalaska-bay-resolve-marine-prepares-recovery#stream/0

    Hmmm delete. New picture out of water proves me wrong....

    Click image for larger version. 

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  12. #1492
    www.SkupTech.com mike mcs repair's Avatar
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    main gear is down.. so??? nose collapse ?? and zing on runway, then too late to abort??

  13. #1493
    www.SkupTech.com mike mcs repair's Avatar
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    Click image for larger version. 

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  14. #1494
    www.SkupTech.com mike mcs repair's Avatar
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    Click image for larger version. 

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    They did a great job not mangling it lifting it.




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  15. #1495
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    Oops, darn it...

    Bad days recently.

    My kids informed me that Kobe Bryant, his daughter, and potentially 9 total died in an S-76 crash. No link, plenty of media on google.

    Aerobatic pilot Steve Andelin, flying a practice routines in a Kirby Chambliss aircraft, impacted the ground killing himself and others on the ground. Nasty Video footage online.

    And more close to home, “Little Mark” Nowosielski and Nathan, the son of his twin tiger teammate “Big Mark” Sorenson perished in a crash of a recently purchased mustang II (unverified) from loss of power after takeoff.


    https://www.wsbtv.com/news/local/cow...M36F7RHMJOPK4/

    https://times-herald.com/news/2020/0...outside-senoia

    Let’s be careful out there. It could happen to you.


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    Last edited by Farmboy; 01-26-2020 at 08:41 PM.
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  16. #1496
    www.SkupTech.com mike mcs repair's Avatar
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    found a hard spot in the fog/clouds....

    "the mountains were “fogged in.”"


  17. #1497
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    Too many bottom feeders.

    In short -
    Airplane crashes in 2017.
    Estate sues repair station for work....
    .... last performed in 2010, 7 years prior.
    Judge allows lawsuit to continue instead of being dismissed, until repair station can prove they were not guilty.


    https://www.aviationpros.com/fbos-te...-that-killed-3


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  18. #1498
    www.SkupTech.com mike mcs repair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Farmboy View Post
    Airplane crashes in 2017.
    .... last performed in 2010, 7 years prior.



    https://www.aviationpros.com/fbos-te...-that-killed-3


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    that's crazy!

  19. #1499

  20. #1500
    Farmboy's Avatar
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    Oops, darn it...

    15 months. So either the reported dates are wrong, the repair shop is lying or someone else replaced six cylinders?

    Edited content after reading NTSB report.

    Sad either way, and as high profile people they’re are plenty of people looking for someone to blame.
    Last edited by Farmboy; 01-28-2020 at 06:37 PM.
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  21. #1501

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    So, lets see here a mechanic who worked on that engine in December 2007 is getting sued for a major mistake another shop did when swapping out the cylinders in 2016 or so. WTF? And when calling in the engine failure on departure the controller directed the to an airport well beyond gliding range when the was an airport very near by.
    Do you think someone has friends down there?
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  22. #1502
    Farmboy's Avatar
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    Something is wrong in the reporting, media, or claims.

    NTSB says cylinders replaced in 2016.

    https://app.ntsb.gov/pdfgenerator/Re...Final&IType=FA


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  23. #1503

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    0839 so should have been light out, wondering if its all trees or not.

  24. #1504
    Farmboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tempdoug View Post
    0839 so should have been light out, wondering if its all trees or not.
    NTSB report was focused on ATC not having closest airport data in their system. Also does not discuss open fields or how the impact damage appears to be stall/spin from a low attitude. Emergency call was made at 3900', 4 minutes prior to impact -

    AIRPORT INFORMATION
    Radar data and voice communications revealed the airplane was traveling on a heading of about 300° when the pilot reported the engine power loss. At that time, GA35 was about 6.5 nautical miles (nm) away on a heading of 174°, which required a 126° left turn to divert to GA35. Radar plots showed that the airplane was able to glide about 6.3 nm after the pilot declared the emergency and made the left turn.
    FAA published charts for the area showed that Briggs Field Airport (GA43), Guyton, Georgia, was about 3.4 miles away on a heading of 345° when the pilot reported the engine power loss, which would have required a 45° right turn toward GA43. GA43 was a private airstrip with a 2,300-ft long turf runway. Although GA35 was depicted on the air traffic controller's emergency obstruction video map (EOVM) that was used in handling the accident flight, GA43 was not depicted. The figure shows the positions of the airports relative to the airplane's track.

    Click image for larger version. 

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  25. #1505
    www.SkupTech.com mike mcs repair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Farmboy View Post
    Emergency call was made at 3900', 4 minutes prior to impact -
    pilot error...

    LAND the plane...

    don't mater where,

    don't mater if it's gonna get bent...

    LAND the plane before it goes into spinning lawn dart mode....

    if you LAND the plane you will walk away...

  26. #1506
    BC12D-4-85's Avatar
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    We used to practice power off to idle landings, and some check pilots would pull power and not give it back. Same for pick a landing spot and head for it power off at best glide speed. I admit it's been years for me since revisiting that training.

    Gary
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  27. #1507
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    Oops, darn it...

    Best training I’ve received was from simply following a bunch of taildraggers around the northeast, listening and paying attention.

    Something to be said for going back to J3’s for all primary students.


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  28. #1508

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    Sullenberger is a glider pilot.... and I’m talking about before the Hudson incident.
    Mark
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  29. #1509

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    to add my .02 cents to........ to pilot error ... ... LAND the plane before it goes into spinning lawn dart mode.... if you LAND the plane you will walk away... ... .. . my .02 cents = .......... "the pilot", should fly the plane ,then, re-read the emer. check list.,,,,then,they should, push the nearness bottom on his gps, and then push the Indent bottom on the transponder ,and then fly, and then fly the plane...and then maybe then use the radio...... my .02 cent,.......... hanger story ........,when i started flying "using low wing pipers (warriors) , " my flight instructor told me about one of his students. was out flying, VFR,around 4 thousand feet, under Chicago's class B. airspace . and his his engine quit , and used his radio, changed freq s, and,he called Chicago's approach control, and they talked to him , via ""two freq changes"" the airplane ended up in a corn field, with the airplane totaled ,but the pilot ok ,and the reason for the engine quitting was THE selected fuel being dry , and the pilot not switching TANKS, to the fuel tank with fuel in it "the UN-Selected fuel tank was 3/4 full. ""IE"" pilet ERROR"" /// good day / rick
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  30. #1510

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    This has been discussed before, maybe now a good time to refresh.
    Engine out practice, though not practical for most AC, ought to be a regular thing in the cub realm.
    By the engine out I mean prop stopped engine out.
    I’ll occasionally approach my home field and stop the motor before entering the pattern and see how close I can get to my hangar door on roll out. Getting pretty good at it but still humbling no matter how many times one does this.
    Be fun to set up a dead stick spot landing contest beside the “stol drag”
    event to encourage more awareness and proficiency in this phase of flight.

  31. #1511
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike mcs repair View Post
    ….if you LAND the plane you will walk away...
    Not always, even if you fly it all the way to the end.
    Sometimes things just don't work out.

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    Crankshaft broke. Made for closest suitable landling site.
    About 20' too low turning hard to line up with the beach,
    clipped a wingtip. Pilot walked away, pax crawled.
    (I was pax)
    Cessna Skywagon-- accept no substitute!
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  32. #1512
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hotrod180 View Post
    Not always, even if you fly it all the way to the end.
    Sometimes things just don't work out.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Crankshaft broke. Made for closest suitable landling site.
    About 20' too low turning hard to line up with the beach,
    clipped a wingtip. Pilot walked away, pax crawled.
    (I was pax)
    Walk away refers to not dying I think. I walked away from a mid-air, not far but I walked. The other guy wasn't so lucky. You can read all the NTSB reports you want but I will tell you from personal experience thay aren't always right or even close to right. Government employee checking boxes.
    Steve Pierce

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  33. #1513
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Pierce View Post
    Walk away refers to not dying I think. I walked away from a mid-air, not far but I walked. The other guy wasn't so lucky. You can read all the NTSB reports you want but I will tell you from personal experience thay aren't always right or even close to right. Government employee checking boxes.
    Absolutely. I was present at a couple of accident sites, both with fatalities. In both of those cases the NTSB got the probable cause absolutely wrong. In one, I arrived while TSB was still on site. When they came out with the report, I was shocked at how far wrong they were.

    If it says airliner on the side, they work hard at it. A Cub? Not so much it seems.

    MTV
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  34. #1514
    Eddie Foy's Avatar
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    Last checked it is innocent until proven guitly. Not the other way around as you state.


    Quote Originally Posted by Farmboy View Post
    Too many bottom feeders.

    In short -
    Airplane crashes in 2017.
    Estate sues repair station for work....
    .... last performed in 2010, 7 years prior.
    Judge allows lawsuit to continue instead of being dismissed, until repair station can prove they were not guilty.


    https://www.aviationpros.com/fbos-te...-that-killed-3


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    "Put out my hand and touched the face of God!"

  35. #1515
    Farmboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eddie Foy View Post
    Last checked it is innocent until proven guitly. Not the other way around as you state.
    Glad someone noticed.

  36. #1516
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eddie Foy View Post
    Last checked it is innocent until proven guitly. Not the other way around as you state.
    Not when it involves the feds. It took me 5 years to prove my innocence.
    Steve Pierce

    Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects.
    Will Rogers
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  37. #1517
    RVBottomly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eddie Foy View Post
    Last checked it is innocent until proven guitly. Not the other way around as you state.
    The presumption of innocence applies to criminal charges, not civil claims.

    It's a bit more nuanced in civil cases. I gather that the repair station moved for "summary judgment" dismissal. They had to show that there were no disputed material facts supporting the claim against them, and that law would not support a claim.

    I haven't looked at the case at all, but probably the estate managed to gin up affidavits showing that at least one material fact was disputed. So the case proceeds.

    I don't know anything about Nebraska law, but I would expect something similar in Washington would have been dismissed if the facts are as described.

    Edit: oops, just noticed it was Nebraska, not Georgia.
    Last edited by RVBottomly; 01-30-2020 at 10:00 PM.

  38. #1518
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    Crud. That's what I get for not reading about the case. Now I see what happened. There was an initial motion to dismiss, not a summary judgment motion. Those hardly ever succeed if there is even the slightest chance there is validity to a claim.

  39. #1519
    algonquin's Avatar
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    The shop I was working in was sued for 100,000.00 because a plane took off and lost the engine.they claimed we were part to blame because we had put a starter in it weeks before. The owner of the shop fought back and after quite a while the ins. Company gave up. I believe it was shown the owner of the plane had been doing his own maintenance on the plane. Ugly business
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  40. #1520
    BC12D-4-85's Avatar
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    Preliminary NTSB report from Dutch Harbor B200: https://app.ntsb.gov/pdfgenerator/Re...=HTML&IType=LA

    Pic in #1494

    Gary
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