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Thread: Oops, darn it...

  1. #841
    www.SkupTech.com mike mcs repair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BC12D-4-85 View Post
    In my post #838 it's confusing what actually happened. I wan't there so I can't speculate. It seems the FAA felt there was other action but then they weren't there either. If the end fitting failed under side load compression then maybe the owner and manufacturer have had a conversation and that's their business.. If it failed under tension (inside of tire hitting pavement break for example) then maybe a safety cable would be a good addition.

    If I had that type of gear I'd try to find out more from both parties if they'll discuss it.

    Gary
    Safety cables are no help in this type of case. (Side load folding a shock strut or gear leg under). They only help when you break stuff going strait ahead, like cabana ears, cabana, shocks/ or shock struts)


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  2. #842

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    Hmm.. Maybe run safety cables from axle nut to wing tie down?!
    Kidding aside, I’ve been pretty hard on Acme, think they’ve come a long way since gen 1 era.
    Hate to see more bad press piled on as a result of this. Based on reported circumstances (I wasn’t there either) doubt any gear would have withstood sideload forces incurred.

  3. #843
    BC12D-4-85's Avatar
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    "He reported that during the landing roll at his home airport, the left main landing gear wheel exited the asphalt runway and entered gravel that bordered the runway. The pilot applied right rudder to steer the airplane back on to the runway, but the landing gear tire contacted the asphalt runway and the left main landing gear failed. The left wing struck the ground and the airplane came to rest on the runway.

    The pilot reported the occurrence of a mechanical failure of the left landing gear shock absorber shaft that had sheared off at the lock nut attached to the rod end."


    Who knows the why or what of all that but him.

    Gary

  4. #844
    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    Sounds like he ground looped it and is blaming the failure of a part. He's just not saying which happened first, yet we have a pretty good idea.

  5. #845
    BC12D-4-85's Avatar
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    The FAA did mention Tundra Tires were installed. Got to be some reason for that on pavement.

    Gary

  6. #846

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    As I recall the FAA stated the left gear fail under the plane as from inward forces.
    I see this being the pilot was just not ready for the plane with the complication being he had a long emotional day with taking delivery followed with flight time and lessons/checkout.
    When I first read this I did not see mention of wind conditions which have been wreaking havoc around the country for months now. I may need to go back and see if the initial report has been updated.

  7. #847
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    Oops, darn it...

    Wasn’t there, but Jesus. So many thoughts.
    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/15/n...ey-stream.html

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    Last edited by Farmboy; 04-16-2019 at 09:05 AM.

  8. #848
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    Quote Originally Posted by BC12D-4-85 View Post
    The FAA did mention Tundra Tires were installed. Got to be some reason for that on pavement.
    Ahah! A friend tells me that during an IA renewal seminar at the NW Aviation Show in February,
    FAA's main speaker said there will be NO MORE FIELD APPROVALS FOR TUNDRA TIRES!!!
    I knew they had a good reason!!
    Cessna Skywagon-- accept no substitute!
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  9. #849
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    Quote Originally Posted by Farmboy View Post
    Wasn’t there, but Jesus. So many thoughts.
    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/15/n...ey-stream.html

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    Perhaps captain Sum Ting Wong will chime in.
    "Always looking up"
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  10. #850

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    Quote Originally Posted by Farmboy View Post
    Wasn’t there, but Jesus. So many thoughts.
    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/15/n...ey-stream.html

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    I think it is still up in the air as to if he actually crashed or not.

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  11. #851
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    Quote Originally Posted by CharlieN View Post
    I think it is still up in the air as to if he actually crashed or not.
    If it wasn't a crash, it for sure wasn't a successful landing.
    A better outcome than would be expected though, considering the circumstances.
    A guy I knew, a pretty accomplished pilot IMHO, had something similar happen, a number of years ago.
    He was flying into Boeing Field in Seattle early one morning to go to work,
    and somehow ended up dangling from powerlines near the airport by one MLG wheel.
    His rescue by the fire department was covered on live TV.
    Took him a while to live that one down.
    Last edited by hotrod180; 04-19-2019 at 08:14 PM.
    Cessna Skywagon-- accept no substitute!

  12. #852
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    If we’s all honest, In certain conditions We’d all cop to take any landing to get on the ground!

  13. #853
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    Quote Originally Posted by flyrite View Post
    If we’s all honest, In certain conditions We’d all cop to take any landing to get on the ground!
    How about stopping in a pond on a grey day when the flying has been great. Then after an hour or so taking off only to find yourself in the clouds as you cross the departure end of the pond with no clues that the ceiling had come down! Then in order to get to the nearest airport because the pond was no longer visible you had to fly in the clouds at 100 feet while following the roads looking straight down through holes. For about a total of 8 miles to get to the airport. Follow this road, cross the RR track take the next left, turn left at the traffic light, another mile then another left. There's the cranberry bog, gear down, reduce power keep the gear out of the tree tops. There's the runway close throttle, taxi to the hangar and call it a day.

    Is that what you are talking about flyrite? This is a true story.
    N1PA

  14. #854
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    That’d shorly be one o them times for me !
    Last edited by flyrite; 04-19-2019 at 05:20 PM.

  15. #855
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    Quote Originally Posted by skywagon8a View Post
    How about stopping in a pond on a grey day when the flying has been great. Then after an hour or so taking off only to find yourself in the clouds as you cross the departure end of the pond with no clues that the ceiling had come down! Then in order to get to the nearest airport because the pond was no longer visible you had to fly in the clouds at 100 feet while following the roads looking straight down through holes. For about a total of 8 miles to get to the airport. Follow this road, cross the RR track take the next left, turn left at the traffic light, another mile then another left. There's the cranberry bog, gear down, reduce power keep the gear out of the tree tops. There's the runway close throttle, taxi to the hangar and call it a day.

    Is that what you are talking about flyrite? This is a true story.
    Pete,

    That brought back unpleasant memories of a similar incident where an ATC person tried to “help” me out.

    Called that night and said thanks but don’t need that kind of “help”.

    MTV

  16. #856
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    Quote Originally Posted by skywagon8a View Post
    H...... taking off only to find yourself in the clouds as you cross the departure end of the pond with no clues that the ceiling had come down! ....
    Is that what you are talking about flyrite? This is a true story.
    That was essentially my 100 hr mistake, back in 1983-ish. Never looked up before departing the farm strip for work that day. Took a bit but made it back to the same strip, and learned from it.

  17. #857
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    Sounds like AOA mfgs are having issues. Boeing....Cirrus...

    FAA Grounds Cirrus SF50 Jet over AoA Vane Issue

    The FAA on Thursday issued an emergency Airworthiness Directive (AD) on the Cirrus SF50 Vision Jet, grounding the more than 110 in-service single-engine jets for immediate replacement of the aircraft’s angle of attack (AoA) vane. According to the emergency AD, Cirrus reported “the aircraft's stall warning and protection system (SWPS) or Electronic Stability & Protection (ESP) System engag[ed] when not appropriate” in three incidents since November 2018, leading to a stall warning crew alert system (CAS) message and activation of the stick shaker and/or stick pusher despite the aircraft maintaining sufficient airspeed and AoA for normal flight.

    Further, the FAA said unintended activation of the SF50’s stall protection systems could result in excessive nose-down attitude and difficulty in maintaining control of the aircraft. The emergency AD came two days after Cirrus Aircraft issued a mandatory Service Bulletin (MSB) requiring immediate AoA vane replacement with a modified part from vane manufacturer Aerosonic after originally installed components were found with improper torquing and retention of two set screws mounting the potentiometer shaft to the AoA vane shaft.

    While the Cirrus MSB mandated that SF50 operators have the replacement AoA vanes installed within the next five flight hours, the emergency AD “requires such replacement before further flight,” although operators are able to obtain a special flight permit to a location where the replacement can be performed.


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  18. #858

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    I saw similar issues on several models of Falcon jets, always after de-icing. The vanes would get “sticky” from the fluid and cause some issues. The airspeed tapes displayed a yellow ribbon when approaching a high angle of attack, which would trigger a “stall” audio warning accompanied by either automatic outboard slat extension, or if the slats were out, automatic inboard slat retraction. It took both vanes indicating a stall to trigger the stick shaker. Gets your attention when it happens at rotation.
    Mark
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  19. #859
    Farmboy's Avatar
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    Sadly it seems the last Northrop flying wing (last one ever) crashed today, killing the pilot/mechanic. Unknown cause.


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  20. #860
    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    N1PA
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  21. #861
    Farmboy's Avatar
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    Pete, any other A/C that use a hydraulic clutch like this one? Seems like a heavy unit - I guess it “outweighed” the vibration characteristics.


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  22. #862
    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Farmboy View Post
    Pete, any other A/C that use a hydraulic clutch like this one? Seems like a heavy unit - I guess it “outweighed” the vibration characteristics.
    This certified one did: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aerocar Not sure it was the exact same one but certainly the same principle.
    N1PA
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  23. #863

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    Ron Hackworth, piloting the wing in video, is my hangar neighbor, if he has any more detail Ill pass it on, Sad to see that piece of history gone if the report is true.
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  24. #864
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    Quote Originally Posted by skywagon8a View Post
    Sounds like he ground looped it and is blaming the failure of a part. He's just not saying which happened first, yet we have a pretty good idea.

    For reasons not clear to him the airplane departed the runway, shock broke and then the gear folded sideways under the airplane. Hmmm sounds like a ground loop and the shock failed when the gear folded under the airplane



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  25. #865

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  26. #866
    SJ's Avatar
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    Glad John is OK!

    sj
    "Often Mistaken, but Never in Doubt"
    ------------------------------------------
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  27. #867
    Farmboy's Avatar
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    Since he is okay, I don't think that's what they had in mind when some mount airplanes on poles for display.

    Also shows how much I have to learn. Obviously better to hit the tops than the the lower trunks.

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  28. #868
    www.SkupTech.com mike mcs repair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Farmboy View Post
    Since he is okay, I don't think that's what they had in mind when some mount airplanes on poles for display.

    Also shows how much I have to learn. Obviously better to hit the tops than the the lower trunks.

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    trees are your friends, just big springs(or so i was taught)... don't go into lawn dart mode trying to avoid them, just land in them... know quite a few that walked away, once they figured out how to get down out of the tree....

    and I've watch 6 people die in 2 crashes trying to avoid hitting the tress is last 7 or 8 years.... (lawn dart mode/stall)

  29. #869
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike mcs repair View Post
    trees are your friends, just big springs(or so i was taught)... don't go into lawn dart mode trying to avoid them, just land in them... know quite a few that walked away, once they figured out how to get down out of the tree....

    and I've watch 6 people die in 2 crashes trying to avoid hitting the tress is last 7 or 8 years.... (lawn dart mode/stall)
    I have family on my wife’s side that survived without a scratch after soloing on his first ever flight in a GA airplane. I think he lost his eyeglasses and that was it.

    This happened after the PIC tried to hand-prop with no chocks and not enough instruction for the brake holder (my kin).

    As the story goes, he figured out that pushing forward made the plane go down and he “landed” in the tops of some good South Alabama pines. Crawled down and walked home.
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  30. #870

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    Quote Originally Posted by Farmboy View Post
    Since he is okay, I don't think that's what they had in mind when some mount airplanes on poles for display.

    Also shows how much I have to learn. Obviously better to hit the tops than the the lower trunks.

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    One of my changes of thought over recent years, I am going to have a hundred foot climbing rope tied off to structure under my seat in the plane I am building. The rope maybe knotted or such.

    Now a question, did he stall that into the tree or fly it in?
    Last edited by CharlieN; 04-24-2019 at 08:13 AM.

  31. #871
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    Quote Originally Posted by CharlieN View Post
    One of my changes of thought over recent years, I am going to have a hundred foot climbing rope tied off to structure under my seat in the plane I am building. The rope maybe knotted or such.
    100 feet of Spectra, or other small diameter para-cord type of line in your flight vest with a carabiner may be a better option. Might need to secure it to a tree branch over the pilot seat.
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  32. #872

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    Good suggestion, I have been using AmSteel cord lately which I find impressive material, I expect it may be similar to Spectra. Need to pack a few devices to allow repelling since my hands can not grip those small diameter cords. Not sure anyone can for long.
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  33. #873

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    Quote Originally Posted by CharlieN View Post
    One of my changes of thought over recent years, I am going to have a hundred foot climbing rope tied off to structure under my seat in the plane I am building. The rope maybe knotted or such.

    Now a question, did he stall that into the tree or fly it in?
    I think the odds of ending up in this predicament are very slim,
    chances of being uninjured and capable of safely respelling even slimmer.
    We are blessed to live in a country with an exceptional SAR network.
    they are funded and supported to provide aid in situations like this.
    Might need to swallow ones pride to enguage their services but that’s what their there for.
    Ones focus should be on first, reliable means to summon help, second a means to remain alive till help arrives.
    Im all about self rescue, but not if there’s a chance of making matters worse and putting others further at risk.
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  34. #874

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    In the past 3 years I know of six airplanes that have been hung up in trees with their occupants uninjured. And around here it can take days for a plane to be found, SAR can not provide services till they know where to go.
    I will carry recovery gear, and as I get closer to going into full service with the CAP, I might carry survival gear on those missions as well.
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  35. #875

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    Quote Originally Posted by CharlieN View Post
    In the past 3 years I know of six airplanes that have been hung up in trees with their occupants uninjured. And around here it can take days for a plane to be found, SAR can not provide services till they know where to go.
    I will carry recovery gear, and as I get closer to going into full service with the CAP, I might carry survival gear on those missions as well.
    There are compact, self contained descender devices that operate on a flywheel/brake principal that will lower a person at a controlled rate requiring no user input, other than attach the device to a sturdy anchor, attach the line to yourself and jump out.
    Marketed for use escaping burning buildings.

  36. #876
    Eddie Foy's Avatar
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    In the Air Force, we had a tree lowering device attached to our harness.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oliver View Post
    There are compact, self contained descender devices that operate on a flywheel/brake principal that will lower a person at a controlled rate requiring no user input, other than attach the device to a sturdy anchor, attach the line to yourself and jump out.
    Marketed for use escaping burning buildings.
    "Put out my hand and touched the face of God!"
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  37. #877

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    Late last year one of the guys in our EAA chapter went up for a first flight in a new to market UL, It did not climb well and he hung around in the trees for the better part of 8 hours as the rescuers cut a path through the woods to get equipment into the site. No water, no food and no desire to move since he was suspended between two trees.
    Somewhere I have pics of him still in the plane as well as the news coverage, I think this was later when he was down and they were lowering the plane.
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  38. #878

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    Look up mule tape, I have 100 ft I carry. Light, 1500 lb wt rating, I have not tried to rappel with it yet. With the right knots I am sure it would work.
    DENNY

  39. #879
    BC12D-4-85's Avatar
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    Carry a pair of gloves. Makes repelling and any branch gripping easier on the hands.

    Gary

  40. #880
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    A Hamilton Standard will just chop a path to where you can fly out of the tree tops, don’t ask me how I know.
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