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Thread: Oops, darn it...

  1. #1761

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    Cory's lucky strike was that the prop was set to stop at the 9-3 position such that is never touched ground. The spinner absorbed an impact with the sand/gravel reducing the chance of damage. He got away lucky.
    Regards, Charlie
    Super Coupe E-AB build in process
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  2. #1762
    courierguy's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=AkPA/18;779290]Never Plumb into the line going to the fuel valve. Always plumb into the wing tank or it will do exactly what it did.

    I am "portnuefflyer" on YouTube, and I made a lengthy comment there on Cory's video about how I've been using my ferry tank for over 20 years on two different planes. It's somewhat surprising to me that how to plumb it is even an issue up for discussion. I'm not patting myself on the back, but I "didn't know what I was doing" when I did mine, but it still has worked perfect and with NO need for any human intervention other then putting some gas in now and then. KISS applies here big time.
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  3. #1763
    AkPA/18's Avatar
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    Just curious how yours was plumbed?
    http://thrustline.com/

    Takeoffs are optional--Landings are mandatory
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  4. #1764
    courierguy's Avatar
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    I explain the simplicity of it in the comments sections on that video, here it is:

    When I heard "ferry tank", you had my full attention, having flown with one for 20 years in my two different RANS S-7's. Incidents like your's are why I have NO selector valves. I have two wing tanks, that drain into a 3 gallon header tank, and then teed into the line coming out the bottom of the header tank on the way to the firewall, is the line going to my 9 gallon ferry bladder (Nauta, made for marine use, close enough). Like most planes, the S-7 will empty one tank faster then the other. SO WHAT? I don't care, it doesn't matter....I'm not going to run out of gas until the last 3 gallons in the header is gone, AND....the header tank has it's own sight gauge, and is tapered and 100% usable. I have two valves: one under my seat on the line right before it goes thru the firewall, the other is panel mounted (by the fuel transfer pump switch) to isolate the ferry bladder positively just in case it's self sealing quick disconnect ever failed. I've heard all the damn reasons pilots feel they have to have a fuel selector valve, and fuel mismanagement incidents like yours continue to happen. The only practical disadvantage I've found to the simple way I do it, is with full tanks, parked on a side slope, which I can always find a workaround for, using the bubble already in the panel to park level. Glad it worked out for you, no biggie, didn't look that violent at all, like you said, a good thing about a slow flying plane is slow crashes
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  5. #1765
    mvivion's Avatar
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    Our SC belly tanks were plumbed to dump fuel into the left tank. Run fuel down on left, switch to right, pump fuel to left, etc.

    With Cessna Flint tanks, run one tank down, switch tanks, pump from outboard to main on side not in use, repeat.

    Which brings up the value of a fuel selector: Possible fuel contamination. You MAY be able to isolate a contaminated tank with a fuel selector. No chance without. That said, odds are pretty low, but I know of a case where lives may have been saved......

    MTV
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  6. #1766
    BC12D-4-85's Avatar
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    Fueled up one tank at Yarger Lake east of Tok AK. Vendor from Northway pumped at least a gallon of H2O into the Cessna's left tank. Headed south then it started sputtering with selector on Both. Switched to Right and landed on an unnamed lake nearby then ran the left float up on the swamp shore. Drained out what we could then switched to Left and flushed that line good. Did the same procedure for the Right tank. Taxied around some until it ran better then proceeded with the job. As MTV notes the selector was a bonus.

    Gary
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  7. #1767
    behindpropellers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Pierce View Post
    I believed they plumbed into the main fuel line from the tank to the valve. Pump pressure exceeded head pressure and the pump was pushing air and the net result is caught on video. I reliable source that was there said they replicated the exact same scenario on the ground. Needs to be plumbed like Mike said then you see the fuel going into the tank and you know when it is all transferred or so i am told by one of those old high time fish spotter pilots.
    Do the carbon cubs have a both on the fuel selector? I know there are several nuances with the twin cessna pumps/tanks setup where you can pump a tank empty and select it. I'm fairly certain I saw him plug in the cigarette lighter to turn on the pump?

    Not sure why you would need an aux tank flying around in the lower 48?? Seems like a pressure switch inline with the fuel pump would make sense to turn off the pump when it is no longer pumping fuel. Often times they use the fuel to keep the pumps cool.

  8. #1768
    aeroaddict's Avatar
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    CC's have R/L/Both/Off.

    CC's come with two tank options; basic 12 gal per side (20 useable) or 'extended range' 22 gal per side (40 useable). Cory might have the smaller 12 gal tanks, hence the aux belly tank.
    Last edited by aeroaddict; 08-01-2020 at 03:20 PM.

  9. #1769
    courierguy's Avatar
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    I came up with my setup for my particular needs, though only in the lower 48. I burn mogas exclusively, so I can't land at the nearest airport and taxi up to the fuel island and just swipe my credit card. Well, I could, the Rotax will tolerate Avgas, but I don't, ever. Not in 15 years anyway, and about 200 hours a year flying on average, Montana, Wyoming, Utah, Nevada, and my home state of Idaho. 8 to 10 hours of range makes this somewhat practical, or at least I make it so, it's all part of the sense of accomplishment of flying a home built light plane in the mountain west, can't make it too easy.

    IF I ever get a batch of bad fuel, I'm screwed, as it will ALL be bad. I can see the scenario MTV and BC-12D relate justifying the fuel selector setup. I'm just saying that the way I have plumbed my ferry tank is seemingly foolproof (I should know, as I have done foolish things) and I have inadvertently worst case tested it every way possible, with never a hiccup. I love my 3 gallon header tank, with it's sight gauge. I don't feel anymore at risk with it in the upper baggage area then I do with the wing tanks up by my head, it's all bad if things go south. The 3 or 4 times I have stretched things enough to actually be running off the remaining 3 gallons in that header, I discovered something interesting. Due to it's tapered shape, when I first eyeball the dropping fuel level 3 g., 2 3/4 g., and so on, the rate of drop accelerates, though the fuel burn is the same of course. Keeping in mind 3 gallons is an easy 45 minutes or even an hour with the Rotax, it's still a bit disconcerting to see that sight gauge drop the last few inches a lot quicker then the first few! I'm not proud to say it, but I landed once with 1/2 gallon remaining, but that last 10 minutes was over friendly farm ground (and owned by friends) and I knew exactly how much fuel I had left, and was not surprised by the small amount left. If I ever have a ski problem, say one ski down and one up, or the tips flip up, whatever, my plan is to use all the fuel and my fire risk ought to be about zero, short of the vapors.

  10. #1770
    hotrod180's Avatar
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    My take-away from all this is not so much how to plumb your aux tank, but:
    1) what the pilot said-- don't let something distract you from doing your normal procedure / protocols / checklist.
    2) DO NOT mess with the fuel feed anywhere close to the ground.
    No transferring fuel from the aux tank, no switching tanks.
    I know of several incidents where pilots have come to grief by switching tanks right before landing, right before takeoff, right after takeoff.
    Do all of that at a safe altitude & during a less critical phase of the flight.
    Cessna Skywagon-- accept no substitute!

  11. #1771
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    Quote Originally Posted by hotrod180 View Post
    Do all of that at a safe altitude & during a less critical phase of the flight.
    That's the ticket. There's no reason to be playing with aux or ferry fuel while you're playing on the river.

  12. #1772
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    With five or six video cameras on your airplane, seems to me you're pretty likely to be distracted most of the time.

    MTV
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  13. #1773
    courierguy's Avatar
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    I made a few years ago, none since, as the state of the art, multiple cameras as you say, maybe a drone also, sound tracks, and fancy editing make it beyond what I want to mess with. I am thankful for that.....I don't have to worry about getting sucked down the YouTube drain hole of doing more and more off the wall flying in order to "get more hits." My still camera is bad enough. It's an interesting phenomenon for us old timers, to see these younger pilots all over it but then also having too pay the price when things go wrong. Cory's response has been great, especially to the dweebs and arm chair pilots, he's more polite then I'd be with some of the comments he's getting!

    An edit: I don't want to sound like I think Cody was flying like he was solely for YouTube, he, like myself, fly like we do simply because we enjoy the challenge and it's fun, heck I skied today, once i got the ducks out of the way. And I also did other stuff that if I posted a video of it, would get me slammed by many for flying like that just to get more hits. That's the double edged sword of posting videos, life is much simpler for me to desist.
    Last edited by courierguy; 08-02-2020 at 09:17 PM.
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  14. #1774
    RVBottomly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mvivion View Post
    With five or six video cameras on your airplane, seems to me you're pretty likely to be distracted most of the time.

    MTV
    Especially if you were trying to publish all of it.

    But I think a camera pointing at your instrument panel and part of the windshield would be very useful for things like test flights and practicing configurations at different airspeeds. But I'd rather just set it and forget it instead of fiddling with it while flying. I think memory is cheap enough for that nowadays.
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  15. #1775
    S2D's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firepilot View Post
    Not a Super Cub, but we had two SEATs in a mid-air out here 2 days ago. Two fatals.
    https://www.ktvn.com/story/42435299/two ... ng-efforts
    Man there has been a rash of mid airs this year.
    Something went wrong with their communications for that to happen !!
    I may be wrong but that probably won't stop me from arguing about it.

  16. #1776
    behindpropellers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by S2D View Post
    Man there has been a rash of mid airs this year.
    Something went wrong with their communications for that to happen !!
    Everybody is assuming every airplane has ADSB and not looking out the window......

  17. #1777
    RVBottomly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by behindpropellers View Post
    Everybody is assuming every airplane has ADSB and not looking out the window......
    But those guys were fire-fighting. I don't think they were looking at ADSB--the airspace was probably closed.
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  18. #1778

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    Quote Originally Posted by behindpropellers View Post
    Everybody is assuming every airplane has ADSB and not looking out the window......
    Hey, watch who you’re calling “everybody” there buckaroo.
    Remember, These are the Good old Days!

  19. #1779

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    Still no reliable word on what happened. As mentioned above, in a Fire Traffic Area (FTA) the procedures are (supposedly) tightly controlled. Instructions for the drop are given by either Air Attack (orbiting above) or Lead plane (literally leading/showing desired drop run).

    Two SEATs should not have been low level at the same time on a run, which has been reported to be what happened.

  20. #1780
    S2D's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firepilot View Post

    Two SEATs should not have been low level at the same time on a run, which has been reported to be what happened.
    Quite a few years ago when they were still running SEATs out of the Local airport, I got to punching my calculator a little too hard figuring out how much the guy was making with his fleet of SEAT planes.
    A little bit of sinful envy was starting to creep in !!! In the next couple years he lost 3 planes and pilots. All that envy magically disappeared for some reason. Can't imagine he got any sleep for a couple years.
    I may be wrong but that probably won't stop me from arguing about it.

  21. #1781
    www.SkupTech.com mike mcs repair's Avatar
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    interesting on the mid air with beaver up here, at first they reported plane type as PA-23-250 .... that was by going by N number..... but turns out it was a pa-12 or-18... gary had RESERVED the n number in 2016 it says, but never registered it??? the reservation expired 2 months ago.....

    https://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinq...mbertxt=N1904T

    https://www.asias.faa.gov/apex/f?p=1...DATE:03-AUG-20

    someone doing annuals on it must not have a check box for registration cert..... or maybe it's a FAA screw up... or????

  22. #1782

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    Saw Experimental somewhere on the news clip when it was first reported.


    Sent from my iPhone using SuperCub.Org

  23. #1783
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    You can see the experimental sticker in at least one of the pics from the scene. You know as well as I do that there are A LOT of "outlaw" or "ghost" planes up here.

  24. #1784
    akavidflyer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike mcs repair View Post
    interesting on the mid air with beaver up here, at first they reported plane type as PA-23-250 .... that was by going by N number..... but turns out it was a pa-12 or-18... gary had RESERVED the n number in 2016 it says, but never registered it??? the reservation expired 2 months ago.....

    https://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinq...mbertxt=N1904T

    https://www.asias.faa.gov/apex/f?p=1...DATE:03-AUG-20

    someone doing annuals on it must not have a check box for registration cert..... or maybe it's a FAA screw up... or????
    https://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinq...umbertxt=2587M

    That kind of muddies the waters a bit doesn't it?
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  25. #1785
    Eddie Foy's Avatar
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    I am an old pilot. The Check of ADSB traffic is in my crosscheck. The mark one eyeball is your best chance up close. The ADSB tells you who is close. Your eyeball finds them. The Mark One eyeball is your only source for non ADSB.

    Quote Originally Posted by behindpropellers View Post
    Everybody is assuming every airplane has ADSB and not looking out the window......
    "Put out my hand and touched the face of God!"
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  26. #1786
    www.SkupTech.com mike mcs repair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by akavidflyer View Post
    https://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinq...umbertxt=2587M

    That kind of muddies the waters a bit doesn't it?
    Thatís strange. Iíll have to go back and see if I can see a number in pictures.


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  27. #1787
    Crash, Jr.'s Avatar
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    PA-12 certificated plane rebuilt with experimental -18 fuselage with modifications to the aileron cable routing. Very shade tree and he was never able to get it certified experimental like he planned.

  28. #1788
    akavidflyer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crash, Jr. View Post
    PA-12 certificated plane rebuilt with experimental -18 fuselage with modifications to the aileron cable routing. Very shade tree and he was never able to get it certified experimental like he planned.
    He was probably trying to go EAB and should have just gone Exhibition with it.
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  29. #1789

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    And once the press gets a hold of this, it will no doubt be the headline. Kind of like “didn’t file a flight plan.”

  30. #1790
    www.SkupTech.com mike mcs repair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crash, Jr. View Post
    PA-12 certificated plane rebuilt with experimental -18 fuselage with modifications to the aileron cable routing. Very shade tree and he was never able to get it certified experimental like he planned.
    The lawyers of the other planeís occupants will have a hay day with this....


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  31. #1791
    Farmboy's Avatar
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    Thread tangent regarding ADSB, but I was in the middle-of-nowhere Vermont on Sunday cruising along my iPad starts flashing a traffic alert. I had just scanned it and there was no traffic within a city block (50 miles) so to have a traffic alert was very unusual.

    Iíve been a naysayer on ADSB since inception aside from it being highly useful when flying with groups friends. But over the last year Iíve been warming up more and more to the idea.

    So in looking for this traffic at exactly the same altitude and 2 miles on a direct convergence course, I just couldnít find it visually. So I push the stick forward and drop 400 feet. Still not seeing it and close to a mile, I dropped another 400 feet and finally pick it out.
    Itís an RV-6, and now I was low enough to paint the wings against the sky, making it visible. Sure enough I watch as he passes directly overhead my skylight at a 90 degree angle, likely having never seen me as I donít have ADSB out. (And no radar repeater in that area)
    I attempted to reach him on the comm to thank him for having ADSB out, but couldnít reach him.

    The invisibility of the front cross section of the RV-6 was striking at the same altitude. Without the ADSB alert it could have been a close encounter.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Transmitted from my FlightPhone on fingers...
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  32. #1792
    JWE's Avatar
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    Or worse.

  33. #1793

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    Peter, same here Last Saturday coming back from Windsock had a boggy same altitude and opposite heading. touch the pad and it was an R44 so changed heading and watched him go by. could not see the gray helicopter against the clouds.
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  34. #1794
    MN_flyer1's Avatar
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    The one thing ADS-b has proven to me in the short time I've had it, is that there must have been a lot more close calls that I never new about.
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  35. #1795
    cubdriver2's Avatar
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    All you guys with ADSB fly around like your underwear is too tight. Most days I fly with earplugs and look out the open windows, stress-free. Not knowing some will say is bliss, and I will agree. I've had a bunch of near misses, just goes with the territory. If you think your safe with ADSB remember there are alot of us non reporting boggies out there.

    Glenn
    "Optimism is going after Moby Dick in a rowboat and taking the tartar sauce with you!"

  36. #1796
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    Quote Originally Posted by cubdriver2 View Post
    All you guys with ADSB fly around like your underwear is too tight. Most days I fly with earplugs and look out the open windows, stress-free. Not knowing some will say is bliss, and I will agree. I've had a bunch of near misses, just goes with the territory. If you think your safe with ADSB remember there are alot of us non reporting boggies out there.

    Glenn
    Before ADS-B it musta been carnage. Planes falling from the sky...I shudder at the thought!

  37. #1797
    hotrod180's Avatar
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    I recently installed ADS-B in (Stratux gizmo, displaying on Avare on my tablet),
    and for me it is not the big game changer that it apparently is for some others.
    Most of my local flying is near but not in "rule airspace",
    so others may or may not have ADS-B out (I do).
    One unfortunate aspect is the tendency for me to fixate on the screen,
    either scanning for bogies or watching one already spotted,
    when I should be looking out the window.
    Maybe this isn't a factor for anyone else,
    but it is with me.
    Cessna Skywagon-- accept no substitute!
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  38. #1798
    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hotrod180 View Post
    One unfortunate aspect is the tendency for me to fixate on the screen,
    either scanning for bogies or watching one already spotted,
    when I should be looking out the window.
    Maybe this isn't a factor for anyone else,
    but it is with me.
    Thank you for saying this hotrod. That is a natural unconscious tendency of most people, even when they deny it. Knowing that tendency exists is my major objection to installing the equipment. There is no question ADSB is a safety assistant.
    N1PA

  39. #1799
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    Quote Originally Posted by hotrod180 View Post
    I recently installed ADS-B in (Stratux gizmo, displaying on Avare on my tablet),
    and for me it is not the big game changer that it apparently is for some others.
    Most of my local flying is near but not in "rule airspace",
    so others may or may not have ADS-B out (I do).
    One unfortunate aspect is the tendency for me to fixate on the screen,
    either scanning for bogies or watching one already spotted,
    when I should be looking out the window.
    Maybe this isn't a factor for anyone else,
    but it is with me.
    Your probably safer with it off ?

    Glenn
    "Optimism is going after Moby Dick in a rowboat and taking the tartar sauce with you!"
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  40. #1800
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    A friend just sent this report of his recent misadventure. Things to think about.
    2020
    Collision at 1,500 Feet
    On June 24, 2020 I flew to Golden Lake in the floatplane (Citabria), had a picnic lunch with friends with social distancing, and took off about 2.15 p.m. heading for Constance Lake near Ottawa where I was keeping the plane at this time of year.
    Climbed to about 2,700 feet and, at Golden Lake, could see the town of Renfrew clearly some 20 nautical miles away. Visibility was exceptionally good. Course, South Easterly towards Ottawa. Listening brief on the on-route frequency 126.7.
    Approaching Arnprior Airport, I moved over the Ottawa River and called them (122.7) with my position, altitude, and direction of flight towards Ottawa.
    I gradually lost height to 1,500 feet, reaching the beginning of the Ottawa practice area over the Chat Falls Dam on the Ottawa River. As is customary, I called “practice area”, (123.35) gave my position, height 1,500 feet, and that I was proceeding down the Ottawa River on the Ontario side. Further down river, I repeated this call opposite Mohr’s island.
    There was little traffic, no one in sight, COVID 19 having curtailed training, only a couple of calls and these were of no conflict. No other transmissions were heard.
    I was over a narrow inlet to the Ottawa River, Buckam’s Bay, when there was a tremendous bang, the plane shook, and a red and cream plane flashed by. I just had time to utter one word “yousonofabitch” and then I became very very busy as the plane started a sickening left spiral.
    It immediately became clear I had no right rudder or any rudder control, limited elevator control and, initially the alerions seemed unduly stiff. I almost immediately increased to full power and it brought the nose up, but not quite horizontal, so it was clear we were going down. The tendency for left wing turning was difficult to control.
    By bad luck, this had happened over Buckam’s Bay, an inlet only about 300 meters wide; not the wide expanse of the river. My objective was to put it down on the water, not into the bank or the trees on either side. I found I could vary the radius of the left turn with power and some aileron. Less power for a steeper bank over the land, more power for a gentler turn and keep it over the water.
    I ended up about 20 feet above the water, not quite level at almost full power, but 100 yards away facing me was the bank and the trees. I contemplated a left turn but could see a boat about my 11 o’clock position and, besides the boat, the concern was: initiating a left turn may well cause a little height loss, catch a wing tip, and cartwheel in. I chose to land on the water straight ahead, closed the throttle, and she hit the water about a 20-degree angle.
    The windshield caved in with a great rush of water, the plane tilted up about 110 degrees (I thought it was upside down), and I was underwater.
    Some years ago, I had driven to Toronto for egress training. As you may be aware, a good part of the course is in a swimming pool strapped into a mock cockpit that is then turned upside down and they teach you how to get out.
    Well, it works. My immediate reaction was “pause” and the door is on the right irrespective of what attitude you are in, and the door handle is just behind the pilot’s seat. I was reaching for the door handle when I saw the front jettison handle for the door. Citabrias have this feature; it disengages the hinge pins. I decided to turn that one first just in case the door could be jammed on a buckled frame and it would help clear it if necessary. I turned it and was just starting to go for the ordinary handle when the door just fell away into the depths of the river. I reached out to the top of the door frame with my right hand, undid my seat harness (with shoulder straps) and popped out.
    I was met by a guy who had swam over from a nearby boat, was holding onto the wing strut, and was screaming “get out get out”. I told him I was going to just retrieve my wallet from the back pocket of the pilot’s seat, and he started to scream at me even more loudly. So, I let it go (yup, I lost my wallet), and swam the ten yards to the boat. Didn’t even inflate my life vest, saving the CO2 cartridge for next time.
    Immediate Aftermath.
    I borrowed a cell phone and called my wife Lynn that I was fine. Good job I did. Search and Rescue from Trenton called her less than 10 minutes later. It had received an ELT 406 burst on the collision and on the way down. They wanted to know my whereabouts.
    The ambulance wallahs grabbed me, I was fine, a few cuts and bruises. Some tests then, despite my protestations, they insisted I be transported to hospital for a check up.
    One thing about hospital emergency rooms, you can avoid a long wait, or any wait, if you crash land a plane into the Ottawa River.
    A couple of hours of high tec. tests, things in your arm, electrodes, ultrasonics, and then I could go home.
    Interestingly enough, I had some cuts, one on my nose that congealed, and on my legs. Did anyone at the hospital minister to me, clean me up, offer a couple of band aids. Nope, all high tec.
    Where is Florence Nightingale when you need her.
    Last Words
    The guy that hit me was flying a Cessna, 3 adults and a kid, out sightseeing. They made it back to Arnprior and landed safely with damage to the bottom cowl, firewall, front wheel etc.
    The Transportation Safety Board (TSB) is conducting an investigation and its report will be out in December. From my own observation of the wreckage, and not to prejudge the TSB, I seem to have been hit from behind, about my 4 o’clock position. There are prop strikes on the right aileron, the whole rudder fin is bent 180 degrees, and there is limited elevator movement.

    Peter Cameron
    Thanks MT12, Rice farmer, sjohnson, tedwaltman1, barrow pilot thanked for this post
    Likes silflexer liked this post

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