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Thread: Pilot Flips Plane In Columbia River

  1. #41

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    I agree that any comment that implies it can't happen to anyone of us is counter-productive It can and most likely will if we do this long enough. I would like to hear what went wrong with this landing as I feel one of the best parts of this site is that we can learn from mistakes of others.
    Not that it had anything to do with the upset but did Alex have your flaps on his plane Doug? How did they fair? I have flown that cub a couple times and like Bob said it had quite a bit of weight on the tail back then.

    With all due respect
    Dave

  2. #42
    Bill Ingerson's Avatar
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    Can't think of another pilot that I would trust over Lonnie, He is as good as they come.

  3. #43
    N5126H's Avatar
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    People like to read and view this kinda stuff for the same reason they go to car races or to a hockey game. To watch the crashes and the fights. If car races did not have crashes or hockey games did not have fights, why bother?

  4. #44
    KenyaCub's Avatar
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    There is no doubt that management of this website has a grudge against certain bush flyers. This is evidenced by actions and words on this website, as well as actions that are not on this site. It is ashame that's the case, as it has driven off most of that crowd, which personally I find the most interesting.
    Last edited by KenyaCub; 04-17-2012 at 12:07 PM.

  5. #45
    SC3CM's Avatar
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    Last year a friend got his J3 stuck in a corn field and some local pilots claimed landing off a paved runway should be for emergencies only. We would all laugh at that comment, yet some are doing the equivalent here, and on some other posts.

    If you've got the plane and feel you've got the skills... Have at it! Somebody has to be the first.

    There are plenty of very experienced and very skilled pilots who have bent their planes on a paved runway in calm clear air. It happens.

    Kudo's to the guys with the stones to get the most out of their toys.


    Rene

  6. #46
    N5126H's Avatar
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    Kenya:

    You got to be jokeing! This is a Super Cub site, not a Mooney or Bananza site. We all have big tires because the pot holes on the runways have not been repaired. (not)

    I have a friend who put his cub on it's nose, so being the good friend I am, I salvaged the spinner from the trash without him knowing it and for Christmas I make it into a planter for his office.

    That is what friends do.


    hahahahahahah

  7. #47
    8GCBC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KenyaCub View Post
    There is no doubt that management of this website has a grudge against certain bush flyers. This is evidenced by actions and words on this website, as well as actions that are not on this site. It is ashame that's the case, as it has driven off most of that crowd, which personally I find the most interesting.
    There is also a lot of "name dropping" here on supercub.org (c). Kind of like Hollywood/West L.A. parties.

  8. #48
    Gunny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KenyaCub View Post
    There is no doubt that management of this website has a grudge against certain bush flyers. This is evidenced by actions and words on this website, as well as actions that are not on this site. It is a shame that's the case, as it has driven off most of that crowd, which personally I find the most interesting.
    Really? You serious? I mean Flip Flop has been posting NTSB accident summaries for any and all Cub type aircraft on this site since 4-2-2003 in the "Ya'll be careful out there ya hear" thread. That is longer than both you and I have been members of the site. Flip Flop ain't management here - just a member. I reckon he stopped posting those NTSB summaries in May 2010 because the work environment where he is at ain't real sympathetic to him posting. Besides that - I am aware of numerous aircraft mishaps where press reports about the incident were first posted here by members not management - I think I even posted one first when that older guy balled up a 12 at Arlington a couple years back. In the day and age of a video capable cell phone in every hand you're tweaked about a Cub mishap that shows up in the local press? If you don't expect to be "news" when you prang your Cub near a population center you aren't up with the times. Management grudge? Dude - you need to try a different brand of beer or smokes cause what you're currently using is making you paranoid.......



    It's either that or your grudge post above is just an effort to promote your "bad boys of Cub flying" rep that I'll wager you kind of like..... After all, when it comes to marketing there is no such thing as bad press right........
    "You are the Gray Rider who would not make peace with the Blue Coats, you may go in Peace." - Ten Bears

    Gunny

  9. #49
    Flying Miss Daisy's Avatar
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    The option is to land on nice long paved runways. Even then pilots put them through the brush.
    Glad Loni is OK he is still a hell of a pilot.
    John
    Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention to arrive safely in a well preserved body but rather to slide in sideways, well used up proclaiming "WOW What a Ride"

  10. #50
    KenyaCub's Avatar
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    Hey Gunny, yes i am serious, but I guess you're so smart you know it all.
    Just stay the way you are, you bright sunshine!

  11. #51
    Gunny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KenyaCub View Post
    Hey Gunny, yes i am serious, but I guess you're so smart you know it all.
    Just stay the way you are, you bright sunshine!
    Okay - suppose you back your allegation up with some facts. I'm sorry but I just don't see how posting a local news story about airplane mishap constitutes grudge perpetration. Perhaps you'd care to enlighten us members of the great unwashed mass?

    As for the sunshine comment, if you'd like to lace on the gloves and step in the ring for a few rounds, I'll be your huckleberry..... (and yeah - I'm serious).
    "You are the Gray Rider who would not make peace with the Blue Coats, you may go in Peace." - Ten Bears

    Gunny

  12. #52
    8GCBC's Avatar
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    In Montana last summer, I landed my Scout/31136s on a paved runway about 2000' long. I did not realize the density altitude was about 8000' !!! I could not stop! There may have been winshear too.

    I thought it was ALL over and ran off into the dirt, nothing bent (except my eyelinds). Anyday can be a learning experience for me.

    The article is just a reminder. The names and planes just change over the years....the reality remains.

  13. #53
    KenyaCub's Avatar
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    Gunny, i know you enjoy having pissing contests. I don't. Go find someone else to play with you at that game.

    Enough people on this site know exactly what I refer to, and if you only read this thread, you'll never get it.

  14. #54
    behindpropellers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KenyaCub View Post
    Gunny, i know you enjoy having pissing contests. I don't. Go find someone else to play with you at that game.

    Enough people on this site know exactly what I refer to, and if you only read this thread, you'll never get it.
    I don't know what you are talking about, and I read most every thread.

  15. #55
    Cub junkie's Avatar
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    "lace up gloves and step into the ring" why do that? Somebody throw the first bar stool and get this thing going.

  16. #56
    Gunny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KenyaCub View Post
    There is no doubt that management of this website has a grudge against certain bush flyers. This is evidenced by actions and words on this website, as well as actions that are not on this site. It is ashame that's the case, as it has driven off most of that crowd, which personally I find the most interesting.
    Alex - you are the one making the above statement. I'm saying what's your proof of this. Who is management anyway? SJ? Other forum moderators? How is this "grudge" being perpetrated? Why do I care? Well, I care cause if what you are alleging is true then maybe I'm not so interested in supporting this website unless they fix it. Frankly I don't believe what you say is true but I'm willing to listen to all the facts. Do you have any to support what you're saying? I'm raising the issue because I've come to kind of like this place and its "management". So when someone starts saying they are carrying grudges etc then I'm gonna ask what they're talking about. If that's a "pizzing contest" then so be it.

    Finally, what does any of this (this grudge BS) have to do with the fact that SJ posted a link to a Oregon newspaper article about Supercub mishap? Is the grudge against off airport flying? Is it against the person to whom the mishap happened for ??? reasons? Is against the owner of the mishap aircraft for disclosing his identity? Seriously - Whiskey Tango Foxtrot dude...
    "You are the Gray Rider who would not make peace with the Blue Coats, you may go in Peace." - Ten Bears

    Gunny

  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cub junkie View Post
    "lace up gloves and step into the ring" why do that? Somebody throw the first bar stool and get this thing going.
    ROFLMAO!!! Good one!
    "You are the Gray Rider who would not make peace with the Blue Coats, you may go in Peace." - Ten Bears

    Gunny

  18. #58
    8GCBC's Avatar
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    I heard SJ has a Cisco router with IP load balancing... if he doesn't like you, you GET ONLY 54K!

    Darn my page is loading slow ?

  19. #59
    Cub junkie's Avatar
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    I've never met a Marine that couldn't throw a bar stool from Wa state to Africa. Just having fun here.
    Last edited by Cub junkie; 04-17-2012 at 04:14 PM.

  20. #60
    Gunny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 8GCBC View Post
    I heard SJ has a Cisco router with IP load balancing... if he doesn't like you, you GET ONLY 54K! Darn my page is loading slow ?
    Ah - the ugly truth rises to surface. Because management is vehemently opposed to the current US administration, Kenya is getting low bandwidth access and Kenya Cub is pizzed. Hang in there Kenya Cub - page load rates should improve after November.... (There - that ought to be enough innuendo to get this to rants and raves)
    "You are the Gray Rider who would not make peace with the Blue Coats, you may go in Peace." - Ten Bears

    Gunny

  21. #61
    8GCBC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunny View Post
    Ah - the ugly truth rises to surface. Because management is vehemently opposed to the current US administration, Kenya is getting low bandwidth access and Kenya Cub is pizzed. Hang in there Kenya Cub - page load rates should improve after November.... (There - that ought to be enough innuendo to get this to rants and raves)
    The IP balance tactic has driven the best from this site... wait there is somebody looking into my window! It maybe a supercub.org(c) agent?



  22. #62
    Cub junkie's Avatar
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    That "agent" is probably Kenyan born Barry Sorotero.

  23. #63
    Gunny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cub junkie View Post
    I've never met a Marine that couldn't throw a bar stool from Wa state to Africa. Just having fun here.
    Well, in light of the current military/hookers scandal in Columbia, the recent US Marines scout/sniper platoon Nazi flag scandal, the pizzing on bad guys scandal and all, I was trying to give the civilians the impression that we are still willing to fight fair with the "gloves and rings" reference.
    "You are the Gray Rider who would not make peace with the Blue Coats, you may go in Peace." - Ten Bears

    Gunny

  24. #64
    Flying Miss Daisy's Avatar
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    Did I miss something?

    Loni does not have an instructors ticket which is about the worst thing I have ever heard mentioned about him on or off the website. He does provide technique instruction and from what I can see it is a desirable technique and I have been told at many fly ins he is a superior instructor and pilot.

    Something just happened where he flipped over Alec's SC. It has minimal damage and is out of the river. I assume Alec is extremely frustrated and for some reason thinks " The Management" has something against Loni? I know that SJ is not a believer in the trim down technique but that is his opinion and he says so.

    With that said should we all take a breath.......Rick Papp is not behind this right

    I am glad Loni is OK and I am glad that Alec's SC is out of the river with minor damage. We are all having a good day as no one lost his life and the cub is easily repaired.
    Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention to arrive safely in a well preserved body but rather to slide in sideways, well used up proclaiming "WOW What a Ride"

  25. #65
    8GCBC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cub junkie View Post
    That "agent" is probably Kenyan born Barry Sorotero.
    I knew it!!!! Damn.

  26. #66
    Gunny's Avatar
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    Actually, back on topic. I think that the grudge quite probably stems from the as yet undisclosed fact that the approach to the mishap site on the Columbia River in this case involved a downwind turn to final and most probably too much nose down trim. The landing site also might not have been a full 280 feet long either.....


    (there might be enough evidence in this post to convict me of reading more than just this thread..........or not)
    "You are the Gray Rider who would not make peace with the Blue Coats, you may go in Peace." - Ten Bears

    Gunny

  27. #67
    Gunny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flying Miss Daisy View Post
    ........With that said should we all take a breath.......
    I have. I let half of it out and now I'm starting to squeeze......................
    "You are the Gray Rider who would not make peace with the Blue Coats, you may go in Peace." - Ten Bears

    Gunny

  28. #68
    8GCBC's Avatar
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    When I fly in the Pacific Northwest. I am always higher AGL than let's say the Arizona Desert. I think the trees and mountains make this happen. This leads to fast approaches sometimes. Which are dangerous off airport.

    Remember..Steve Fosset CFIT ?

  29. #69
    N5126H's Avatar
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    I agree, must be bad weed. He will be OK in the morning.

  30. #70
    8GCBC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by N5126H View Post
    I agree, must be bad weed. He will be OK in the morning.
    Don't let him drive anything for 24 hours at least.

  31. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunny View Post
    Actually, back on topic. I think that the grudge quite probably stems from the as yet undisclosed fact that the approach to the mishap site on the Columbia River in this case involved a downwind turn to final and most probably too much nose down trim. The landing site also might not have been a full 280 feet long either.....


    (there might be enough evidence in this post to convict me of reading more than just this thread..........or not)
    Please submit proper DATA for this statement
    I don't know where you've been me lad, but I see you won first Prize!

  32. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by aktango58 View Post
    dark tips with a hard paint line... looks to be a bow tip bird.

    but media mistaken?????

    Never!

    they always get it correct.
    If this is the post that has your hackles up, the quip is towards media, not the pilot, plane or circumstance. I do comment that in the picture it looks like a bow tip bird in response to an earlier comment about it having square tips. I continue in with sarcasm about media...

    I am sorry if this bothered you. It was not intended to speak bad about pilots... but wanted folks to think about the article as not being the absolute truth...
    I don't know where you've been me lad, but I see you won first Prize!

  33. #73

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    We can analyze this sort of thing to death, and then we still, will not know what happened, until the guy who got his feet wet, tells us. I am thinking of all the men and women who go out and push the limits. In almost every endeavour, those that push the limits, bring benefits of improved knowledge, and equiptment, to those of us, who are not quite so daring or have set greater safety limits to what we do personally. What is high risk for one of us, is everyday operation for others. I think most of us pilots, who fly because it is a passion, regardless of whether it is work related or not, have a little different psyche, than most we might pull off of the street. We are all a little bit adrenaline junkies, who thrive on what scares us. When we push that throttle foreward, we expect to meet the challanges of the flight, and to return. Unfortunately there are many who were ever so competent, and something happened. We bid them farewell, and Godspeed, on their final flight, and we press ahead like it is not going to happen to us. We know better, or are smarter, or are better prepared, or just plan on having better luck. Flipping your plane into the river, and walking away, is a non event. Unfortuantely the world is watching, and tends to be critical, and subsequenly legislates away our freedoms. The guys who live on the edge, are entertainment and education for the rest of us. You deserve the endorsements and accolades that come your way. I personally have no plans to land on a 280 foot strip with no way out, unless i am involved in a significant emergency. I can afford to lose my airplane, but every time I close the hanger door on the old girl, It brings me pleasure to see her sitting there intact, nose high, oil drip on the floor, waiting for for the next time out. We are all priviledged to live in a place where we have the freedom to fly, at whatever level of competence we can attain. I am not so sure, that priviledge will be extended to the next generations of adventurers. I think about any person who is unfortunate enough to have an incident, or accident, that but for the grace of God, there go....................... I take no pleasure or voyueristic benefits in the misforunes of others. I think as long as some of us imperfect individuals, go out and defy gravity, from time to time, gravity is going to take it's toll. When it's my turn, as it most certainly will be, I hope I only get my feet wet.

  34. #74
    www.SkupTech.com mike mcs repair's Avatar
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    man you guys been busy typing today

  35. #75
    SJ's Avatar
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    Hi folks, I hope I have not been too conspicuous by my absence, we have been moving this week and ATT has managed to exceed all expectations as usual and not get my DSL or land line connected. As Cubscout would say, I am using two tin cans and a piece of string here so we will see what happens.

    First, I'm not sure how many of you are familiar with Google Alerts. Basically, you tell google that when the news says something about a topic you are interested in, it will send you a link to the article, which is exactly how this got posted here. (Note that this was not an article I wrote, or even reported, it was in multiple news organizations and possibly the AP wire.) I have supercub and super cub set up as two of my many search phrases, and I re-post links to the ones that are not radio controlled, or Honda Super Cub related - of which there are many. As someone has pointed out I have done this for ten years. This is not the first time someone who normally is looking for attention for products and services they sell is frustrated by getting attention in a different kind of way. Even the advertisers here know they are not immune to the news. It's hard to have it both ways. The media is sometimes our friend, and sometimes our foe.

    Regarding my policies, the idea that I for some reason have singled out people in the Northwest in some way is news to me. In fact, the way I have heard and experienced it is quite the reverse - that some folks "Don't have time for a bunch of hobbyists, social networkers, and hangar fliers that hang around on SuperCub.Org". This is a place where people can come and go and often do. Sometimes we only see them when they need some information or have something they want to sell, others are here every day helping people out, others just stirring up trouble

    It takes different levels of excitement to get our individual hearts racing. The first time many years ago that I landed on grass (this was not normal pilot behavior where I learned to fly ) I was thrilled and hooked in the same moment. To others landing on a 45 degree slope with no margin for error in inhospitable terrain is what gets their blood pumping. On Supercub.Org, we have folks that range everywhere in between. One of the core values of this medium is for people to be able to learn from others be they advantages or consequences in hope that in can make what they do safer, or in some cases discourage those that are not properly prepared from trying something beyond their skill set. I have posted widely about my own accidents and upsets and respect those of you who have also done that, but also respect folks who prefer not to. The "flip flop" hats are a way to help folks less publicly begin conversations about their lessons learned.

    Finally, I appreciate all the texts, emails, and private messages regarding this thread. I have learned over the years that if you do anything big or are in any way in the public eye, you and your practices are subject to great scrutiny, dissension, discussion, and sometimes attack. I will never make you all happy, and I invite your critiques and criticism - public or private. I will be at the Airmen's show again in a couple weeks and you can beat me up in person if you like - though figuratively only, please...

    Ok, back to moving, painting, plumbing, blah blah blah...

    Carry on

    sj
    "Often Mistaken, but Never in Doubt"
    ------------------------------------------

  36. #76

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    Quote Originally Posted by KenyaCub View Post
    There is no doubt that management of this website has a grudge against certain bush flyers. This is evidenced by actions and words on this website, as well as actions that are not on this site. It is ashame that's the case, as it has driven off most of that crowd, which personally I find the most interesting.
    Kenya,

    Steve serves a diverse audience/client group. Not unlike those customer bases that Greg and Doug serve. Success has it's burdens. Its sad that much of the old expertise on this site has yielded the floor to chucklehead topics but your leaving only makes that worse. I've enjoyed the participation of your circle of friends and I hope you reconsider your position and share your knowledge and adventures with us once again. This site still represents the best collection of owners/operators that I've found on the net. There's value in that. Best wishes in any case.

    SB
    Last edited by sierra bravo; 04-18-2012 at 04:59 PM.

  37. #77
    8GCBC's Avatar
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    This site is like the North Shore of Oahu in December. The pros, amatures, wanabes, local street gangs, the press, the vendors fight for room, money, and a magazine cover shot. It is what is, don't take in personally. After you have been chased by a bloke with gang tats from Sunset Beach, this site (is) seems like a vacation.

    SuperCub.org(c) "You can check-out any time you like, but can never leave" Your post(s) forever remain.
    Last edited by 8GCBC; 04-19-2012 at 12:14 AM.

  38. #78
    brown bear's Avatar
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    "Steve serves a diverse audience/client group"
    Yep, even wantabes from kansas!

  39. #79

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    I am one of those guys who dosent hava CUB but learns alot from all of you. WOW Kenya dude Pull up your big man panties and get a grip. I find SJ to be the best host with the mostest of any forum on the web right along with Pearce on his forum of the shortwing kind. Have a cold one chill relax take a breath and go fly 8 hours bottle to throttle. we are here to learn cuss and discusss and have a good time. Thank you all for everything we all contribute to our flying world.

    Fly safe fly low fly slow
    John

  40. #80
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    SB, I've got no intention of disappearing just yet ...
    Thanks for all the PM's from the people who understood.

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