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Fuel sight gauges...

fadec

Registered User
Mooresville, NC
I was wondering what the general consensus was on fuel sight gauges?


Certified Cub, electrics in the RH and speaker in the LH

Thanks
 
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Just use Tygon tubing, you will have to change it every few years but it is $.15per foot.
 
I was wondering what the general consensus was on fuel sight gauges?


Certified Cub, electrics in the RH and speaker in the LH

Thanks

I use atlees....

but I did recently see a neat Idea on here where they mounted it outside fuselage with a window to see it, so it stays part of wing, when wing rips off......
 
Good way to make the point Mike! Yes, I think that's a great idea.
 
Great timing for a sight gauge thread, I was about to make mine today but I'll see if there is more advise to be had here, so I'll work on a cabin heat muff instead.

mongo, you mentioned tygon tubing needing changing every few years, why? discolouration, gets brittle? What's a few? (I know more than a couple) but every 3 or 4 and I'll probably re-think my plans.

I've seen pictures of the Atlees and they look nice and simple, as well as a reasonable cost, but my first though is they seem to stick out and would be prone to getting broken off. What are they made of?
Also looked at BC Cubs but can't seem to get anything off their website any more.
Any help would be appreciated, I've been mulling this one around for a long time and finally decided to make mine using tygon but having second thoughts..
Experimental.. nearing completion.

Thanks,

Al
 
Atlee's sight gauges when installed correctly don't stick out more than the originals. They are flexable so they won't break and are made out of a fuel compatable tubing. I've installed them on lots of cubs over the years and have yet to see them discolor or get brittle. the other nice thing is that you can see the fuel level all the way down the tube.

John
 
Yes it get hard and brittle after 3 years or so.

Sent from my HTC Evo using Tapatalk
 
I notice this thread is in modifications and there are a lot of posts pertaining to experimental. Fadec, are you certified or experimental?

I think being certified you have three choices, original, Dakota Cub and Atlees.
Original uses cork gaskets that dry out and leak over time.
Dakota Cub uses a deeper gauge to see fuel better and has o'rings for better seal and less prone to leaking.
Atlees use a piece of clear tubing.
 
Atlee's will discolor with time: when mine were around 10 years old I replaced them. They were still functional, but I replaced them because I didn't know if the discoloration was an indirect sign of brittleness. When I got the old ones off it turns out they weren't brittle at all, so I assume they would have been good for a while longer.

Eric
 
I recall a couple of service bulletins for Atlee's sight gauges. One was regarding improper draining that led to incorrect fuel quantity indications and the other is about the material of the sight gauge itself. Theoretically the discoloration/brittleness issue was corrected 6 years ago.

03-21-2008, 08:25 AM
MANDATORY SERVICE BULLETIN
Document No: 3286SB Date: September 11, 2006
Subject: Mandatory visual inspection of F. Atlee Dodge Wing Tank Fuel Sight Gauges. Part No. 3286 installed I.A.W. STC SA02115AK. (ref.dwg.no.3286)

Models Affected: Piper Models PA-12, PA-12S, PA-14, PA-18, “150”, PA-18S “150”, PA-18AS “150”, PA-22-160 with F. Atlee Dodge 30.5 Gallon Wing Fuel Tanks Installed. Or any other aircraft using F. Atlee Dodge Sight Gauges.

Statement of Difficulty: Reports have been received that the plastic tube sight gauges have been discoloring and or cracking. The discoloring and or cracking appear to be the result of using automotive fuel or auto fuel / AVGAS mixture. The original gauge plastic tubing is not compatible with Automotive Fuel. Continued use of discolored or cracked sight gauge creates an unsafe condition that could result in the inability to determine fuel quantity in the tank or possible fuel leakage and fires inside the cockpit.

Compliance: Within the next 10 flight hours after receipt of this Bulletin visually inspect the entire Sight Gauge including the connection area behind the cockpit trim panels. Any indication of discoloration or cracking constitutes an un-airworthy Sight Gauge. Replace any un-airworthy Sight Gauge with an improved Sight Gauge compatible with Automotive Fuel prior to further flight. Original Sight Gauges found to be airworthy at the initial inspection shall be inspected every 100 hours or annually, which ever comes first, until replacement with an improved Sight Gage.


Information and Parts Availability: Copies of Mandatory Service Bulletin No. 3268SB are available from F. Atlee Dodge Aircraft Services, LLC. Or electronically at www.fadodge.com. Contact F. Atlee Dodge Aircraft Services, LLC. for availability and pricing of improved Sight Gages.
 
..One was regarding improper draining that led to incorrect fuel quantity indications ....

ya that other Service Bulletin on draining/raising bottom of gauge is BS.... much better to put a mark/block off exactly where empty is, than have it be "sometime after" there is no fuel showing.....
 
Would someone give me a reason why they would want anything but atlees site gauges? I know that if there isnt any fuel in the tube, i need some.
 
Would someone give me a reason why they would want anything but atlees site gauges? I know that if there isnt any fuel in the tube, i need some.

I'm with you on this.

I like the idea of having them on the other side of the interior so they go with the wing iff it rips off.

Also, not that I'm a Husky lover, but they've had flexible tube sight gauges since day one! There are some good ideas on that a/c.

Also, why would anyone want to use electric gauges??? Seriously, is there a reason? .......even one good reason? I'm open to answers.
 
Thats been brought up before and is a excellant idea. Just put a piece of the thinnest plexi on the interior fairing and it would be just fine to see the tube. Then all that would be needed is 2 elbows with a short as possible barb on the bottom with just a straight piece of hose all seperate from the fuselage. Was also going to add that ive seen different shades and even types of tygon tubing. The types im not really a chemist but the shades i still like atlees clear, easy to see.
 
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Steve at Atlees told me not to install those types of guages on a stock 18 gallon tank. I didn't ask why though and installed the stock guages. Anyone have insight on why?
 
Maybe because of this MSB, particularly the last line. It appears the issue with improper fuel level indications may be attributed to using Atlee sight tubes on stock tanks. Are the tank ports centerlines different on stock tanks than with Atlee tanks?

F. Atlee Dodge Aircraft Services, LLC. 6672 Wes Way * Anchorage, Alaska 99518
Phone: (907) 344-1755 * Fax: (907) 344-6720
[COLOR=rgb(0.000000%, 0.000000%, 100.000000%)]atleedodge@acsalaska.net [/COLOR]~ [COLOR=rgb(0.000000%, 0.000000%, 100.000000%)]www.fadodge.com[/COLOR]



page1image2816

page1image3096

page1image3368

page1image4376

MANDATORY SERVICE BULLETIN
Document No: 3286SC-02 Date: August 10, 2009



page1image7416


Subject:
Visual inspection of F. Atlee Dodge wing tank fuel sight gauges. Part No. 3286 inaccordance with (IAW), STC SA02115AK.
Reference:
STC SA02115AK, Document No. 3286IM, Drawing No. 3286.I.
Models Affected:
Piper Models PA-12, PA-12S, PA-14, PA-18 “150”, PA-18S “ 150”, PA-18AS “150”,PA-22-160 with F. Atlee Dodge 30.5 gallon Wing Fuel Tanks and sight gaugesinstalled per STC SA02115AK.
Additionally, any model aircraft with any approved Fuel Tank installed on thesemodel aircraft using F. Atlee Dodge Wing Tank Fuel Sight Gauges per dwg no3286I.
Additionally, any other aircraft with approved installation of F. Atlee Dodge WingTank Fuel Sight Gauges per dwg no 3286I.
Statement of Difficulty:
Report have been received that the plastic tube sight gauges incorrectly indicatefuel quantity at low fuel levels. This misleading information may lead to fuelstarvation of engine in some flight conditions.
STC SA02115AK has a limitation that required the sight gauge to be installedwith only F. Atlee Dodge 30.5 gal wing fuel tanks in accordance with STCSA649AL, SA00092SE or SA578INM.




Many installations have deviated from this limitation by installing the fuel gaugeswith stock 18.0 gallon or other FAA Approved Fuel Tanks.
 
Steve at Atlees told me not to install those types of guages on a stock 18 gallon tank. I didn't ask why though and installed the stock guages. Anyone have insight on why?

thats part of the Service bulletin... that atlee gauges are longer than the distance between the stock tank outlets, so the bottom of the gauge is bellow a stock tank bottom and leaves some fuel in the gauge... and people think they still have fuel.... but I like that, and fill then drain tanks, then mark gauge there as empty.... (level flight is only useful info for empty)
 
All good info, thanks to all who have shared. I've pondered long enough and just finished ordering a pair of Atlees, look like the safest and best bang for my buck.
 
... that atlee gauges are longer than the distance between the stock tank outlets, so the bottom of the gauge is bellow a stock tank bottom and leaves some fuel in the gauge... and people think they still have fuel.... but I like that, and fill then drain tanks, then mark gauge there as empty.... (level flight is only useful info for empty)
Mike, This is making me think. We all Know that certified Cub fuel level indicators leave something to be desired when on the ground. How about a sight gauge which is connected to a "T" at the rear outlet of the tank and to the normal gauge top connection? This will then give a more accurate reading when the tail is on the ground. Though I do admit that some folks may decide to take off with less gas than with the standard sight gauge. The dual markings, tail low and level flight, tend to sucker the pilot into thinking he has more fuel than he really does.

There is room here for someone to come up with a better mouse trap that can be sold for some short $$$.

I do not believe that the Cub fuel gauges comply with the regs. The following is from part 23 though I do believe that part 3 is similar.
[h=5]§ 23.1553 Fuel quantity indicator.[/h]A red radial line must be marked on each indicator at the calibrated zero reading, as specified in §23.1337(b)(1).

and
[h=5]http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/tex...view=text&node=14:1.0.1.3.10.6.100.19&idno=14
§ 23.1337 Powerplant instruments installation.[/h](a) Instruments and instrument lines. (1) Each powerplant and auxiliary power unit instrument line must meet the requirements of §23.993.
(2) Each line carrying flammable fluids under pressure must—
(i) Have restricting orifices or other safety devices at the source of pressure to prevent the escape of excessive fluid if the line fails; and
(ii) Be installed and located so that the escape of fluids would not create a hazard.
(3) Each powerplant and auxiliary power unit instrument that utilizes flammable fluids must be installed and located so that the escape of fluid would not create a hazard.
(b) Fuel quantity indication. There must be a means to indicate to the flightcrew members the quantity of usable fuel in each tank during flight. An indicator calibrated in appropriate units and clearly marked to indicate those units must be used. In addition:
(1) Each fuel quantity indicator must be calibrated to read “zero” during level flight when the quantity of fuel remaining in the tank is equal to the unusable fuel supply determined under §23.959(a);
(2) Each exposed sight gauge used as a fuel quantity indicator must be protected against damage;
(3) Each sight gauge that forms a trap in which water can collect and freeze must have means to allow drainage on the ground;
(4) There must be a means to indicate the amount of usable fuel in each tank when the airplane is on the ground (such as by a stick gauge);
 
Mike, This is making me think. We all Know that certified Cub fuel level indicators leave something to be desired when on the ground. How about a sight gauge which is connected to a "T" at the rear outlet of the tank and to the normal gauge top connection? This will then give a more accurate reading when the tail is on the ground. T.....

ya that wold work for 3 point low level

a second site gauge on each side at rear hooked up like that, tee'd into top too.... and calibrated...
 
In response to two issues, 3-point fuel level indication and Dave's question about electric gauges... My Cessna has new MacFarlane senders and Aerospace Logic digital fuel indicators. The approved electric gauges are calibrated one gallon at a time from zero to 78 gallons in my plane. The calibration is done in level flight attitude per the instrument installation manual so the tailwheel was supported at about my eye level. The instruments differentiate each gallon in a still environment. Really accurate. WAY better than stock, but like stock the indications are for level fight. In reality? 3-point fuel indications aren't valid for anything. They weren't designed to be. With a 180 it was not practical for me to lift and lower the tail with each gallon to make a 3-point correction card so I have no idea how the 3-point indications cross reference to the calibrated level flight quantities. Don't care, either. In flight the indicators provide a fairly good approximation of useful fuel but since the airplane is in motion and fuel sloshes the indications wander a little. When fuel is low the deviations are accentuated and vary from 10 gallons to flashing warning lights with a wiggle of the wings. A fact not lost on my wife! Doesn't much matter to me since I always use a dip stick to verify my fuel levels pre-flight and I'm very familiar with the airplane's fuel use rate. The panel gauges are required, are pretty, and serve to validate what I already know by dipping and timing but I'd never trust my life to electric gauges. Sight tubes are way better. I look at my Atlee Dodge sight tubes and am absolutely confident in the information they provide whether on the ground or in flight because I marked them in 5 gallon increments in both 3-point and level flight attitudes. 3-point indications have never been a problem when I had adequate fuel to initiate a flight. FWIW, I do have a dip stick for the -12 but I have never had reason to use it.
 
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Stewey, I was talking about Cubs, and why on earth a guy would replace the ultra-simple sight gauge in a Cub with an electric gauge.

PS, I like the mechanical gauges in the early 180's....again, simple, and work well when set-up well. Your late-180, set up well is surely a joy.
 
Dave,

We agree. The point was that even with a state of the art digital fuel indicator I still rely on a dip stick for 3-point fuel measurement. And it's in compliance with the referenced fuel indicator regs paragraph b, line 4.
 
My Cub came with Electric fuel gauges.

I pulled the top fuel cover today to access the fuel tank, hoping to find 2 plugs where the sight gauges would go...Nothing. Has anyone encountered this? If so what did you do to get your sight gauges installed.
 
My Cub came with Electric fuel gauges.

I pulled the top fuel cover today to access the fuel tank, hoping to find 2 plugs where the sight gauges would go...Nothing. Has anyone encountered this? If so what did you do to get your sight gauges installed.

You can weld the bungs in. Why waste the time though? I also have electric gauges, and they are perfectly accurate. No reason to mess with them.

Tim
 
You can weld the bungs in. Why waste the time though? I also have electric gauges, and they are perfectly accurate. No reason to mess with them.

Tim

Im glad yours work, mine don't, never have been reliable.

I just figured if I was going to put money into an unreliable system i would install a known reliable system, sight gauges.
 
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