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Thread: Wing Tip Shape Summary

  1. #41
    Yooper Cub rotto789's Avatar
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    In my short experience:
    Droop tips suck. I found no lift advantage and the
    make it difficult to see past the wing from the cockpit
    These are the reasons I dont want to install the droop tips on my smith cub, mine came with the kit, has any one had experiance with no tips at all ? just fabric rap the end rib and maybe put a stall fence on the trailing top half of the tip rib, I have seen some represntations of this on a few other cubs, one of wayne Macky's early SQ2s had this, is there any advantage or disadvantage of doing it this way? would save a guy some money if he didnt have to buy wing tips, fabricating a fence would be a piece of cake.

    Rick

  2. #42
    cgoldy's Avatar
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    Rick,

    I plan to do exactly that. But i will fabricate and end plate with the fence incorporated. When the supplier of my wing tips told me that they are aesthetic only, I wondered why I bothered putting them on. The small fence needs some research. Are there any pictures of wayne's?

  3. #43
    Ruidoso Ron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cajun Joe View Post

    Yeah, I guess that's the trick word..usually
    Of course I've bumped into a few things and
    nothing on the plane bounced back...cept me.
    Yeah Joe, I think I have pictures somewhere. If you would like, I'll try to dig them up. Who loves you Joe?

  4. #44
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    Joe, I have a picture of Ron if you need a little "dig" on Ron.
    Steve Pierce

    Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects.
    Will Rogers

  5. #45
    Ruidoso Ron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Pierce View Post
    Joe, I have a picture of Ron if you need a little "dig" on Ron.
    Hell Steve! The whole world has embarrassing pictures of me in a Super Cub. I'm kind of like the Paris Hilton of SC.Org. (Maybe I should rephrase that) I thank you in that, at least, you didn't have t-shirts and coffee mugs made from them.

    O.K. That's more posts in the last two days, than I've posted in the last two years. I think I'll go back into hibernation. Wake me for the OK18 Fly In.

  6. #46
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    LOL, I am just enjoying you guys return. You haven't seen pictures of my adventures this summer.
    Steve Pierce

    Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects.
    Will Rogers

  7. #47
    Ruidoso Ron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Pierce View Post
    LOL, I am just enjoying you guys return. You haven't seen pictures of my adventures this summer.
    No, but I have heard stories.

  8. #48

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    Rick, Super11xp on here has no wing tips, maybe he would chime in?

  9. #49
    Yooper Cub rotto789's Avatar
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    Rick,

    I plan to do exactly that. But i will fabricate and end plate with the fence incorporated. When the supplier of my wing tips told me that they are aesthetic only, I wondered why I bothered putting them on. The small fence needs some research. Are there any pictures of wayne's?
    Goldy,
    Here is the link to Wayne's early SQ2 review has some good pictures of his wing tips, or lack of !! I think a guy could fab the fence out of 1/8 lexon or plexy, would be paintable and easily repaceable if you were to say hit a branch or something Ha Ha !!

    http://www.eaa.org/sportaviationmag/...Backcounty.pdf

    Rick

  10. #50
    Dave Calkins's Avatar
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    Goldy and Rick, The tip plate/fence is simple, but the advantage ends there. Wayne changed to a Sullivan/Hendricks style tip after testing revealed that the tip vortex with that tip fence/plate was hitting the top of the wing about 4 feet inboard of the tip....not a good thing.

    There is some discussion here. If you look hard enough, or someone does a search, there is discussion where Jerry Burr talked about his research and gave report to flying qualities of various tip designs. I believe the Sullivan tip ends up with highest marks...still, it's just a wingtip

  11. #51
    Yooper Cub rotto789's Avatar
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    Goldy and Rick, The tip plate/fence is simple, but the advantage ends there. Wayne changed to a Sullivan/Hendricks style tip after testing revealed that the tip vortex with that tip fence/plate was hitting the top of the wing about 4 feet inboard of the tip....not a good thing
    Dave,

    Do you think the Fence would be better served on the bottom of the trailing edge in a similar fashion to the one that Wayne had on his old SQ2 only inverted? that way the vortex would help create lift,( I am just thinking out loud here, I may me be way off in my thinking), would still resemble the Droop tips only smaller, less surface area and create less visual intrusion under the wing......Just a thought.

    Rick

  12. #52
    Cajun Joe's Avatar
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    Steve, Ron y'all stop foolin around on this site.
    These guys are serious about this whole wing tip thingee...
    Check this out: "would still resemble the Droop tips only smaller,
    less surface area and create less visual intrusion under the wing....."

    Visual Intrusion!
    Steve, chew on that for awhile.

  13. #53
    Cajun Joe's Avatar
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    I'm sorry rotto789; truly I am.
    I am a dear romantic when it comes to the English language
    and the cleverlessness of warping words..
    I thought your phrase "Visual Intrusion" was really neat
    and pointed it out to SP because he is a serious student
    of Cubisms.
    As far as how it relates to wings, I have no idea.
    As far as stupid comments go, speaking for Massey
    "he makes a lot of them."

  14. #54
    Cajun Joe's Avatar
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    Southerner?

    Guess I'll join Massey and "hibernate" until OK18 rolls.
    Later

  15. #55

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    Dang! After carefully 'splainin' to Joe some years ago the similar linguistic usage between "coonass" and "yooper" (i.e., either a term of endearment or fightin' words, depending on who sez it and in what tone, one meets t'other . And of course I enjoy both cultures. And this has been an interesting string.

    Rotto, you'll hafta do some research (lighter than air area, I believe), on a piece entitled approximately "Joe Moves ta' da' U.P." [Which Joe took with good grace and some fun banter.]

    Tanks, eh? cubscout

  16. #56
    Dave Calkins's Avatar
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    I usually just tune you guys out. Between you and the nimpo/tango deal, I can't keep up with you......and wouldn't try if I could.

    Goldy, I don't know the answer to your question. Wouldn't hurt to experiment. Did you try using the search function for that Jerry Burr stuff about tips. Maybe he discussed it. I do recall a discussion of "splates", which I think is a tip plate.

  17. #57
    this would be a title NimpoCub's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Calkins View Post
    I usually just tune you guys out. Between you and the nimpo/tango deal, I can't keep up with you......and wouldn't try if I could.
    DC, are you sayin' that you are somehow miffed @ the good-natured bantering between some of us?
    I kinda figgered it would elicit a smile, not "tuned out" irritation.
    SORRY if that's the case.

  18. #58
    cubdriver2's Avatar
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    I told you guy's this was right on the money I posted this last week, find your caracter


    This is an example of how we all get along somedays

    http://youtu.be/WjoDEQqyTig


    Glenn

  19. #59
    Dave Calkins's Avatar
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    Hah, I am rarely "miffed" Logan.

    I read what everyone writes.......some of it gets tuned out. Most of what George writes gets "tuned out"...and Eaton

    I just don't have the mental capacity to comment on it all

  20. #60
    Dave Calkins's Avatar
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    Glenn, if that's the birds on the wire, I got a kick out of that. True, true!

  21. #61
    WhiskeyMike's Avatar
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    Does anyone have the installation instructions for the Ferguson tips? "Upper Valley Aviation exhibit no. 2a report 101-250 dated august 30, 1965.

    Thanks in advance!

  22. #62
    flybynite's Avatar
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    Ferguson tips installation for pa-12 and others. The only number that corresponds is 8/30/65
    Not sure if it will help at all but...
    Attached Files Attached Files

  23. #63
    skukum12's Avatar
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    Click image for larger version. 

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    Day n Night, loong flap, aileron moved out and shortened a bit. PA12.
    "Always looking up"

  24. #64

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    Seems to me that there is an STC for -18s from Day and Night for extended ailerons with the tips. An extra hinge needs to be added and gives about 16" more aileron with flaps in original position.

  25. #65
    nanook's Avatar
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    Stock Bow tips are the best, you just knock the extended tips off eventually.

  26. #66

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    anyone have any pictures of wag aero wing tips already on

  27. #67
    Cub junkie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scott m View Post
    anyone have any pictures of wag aero wing tips already on
    Should be plenty of pictures on this board of tool time Tim's 2+2 with the wag aero tips. Good looking airplane/wing tips, don't know if they are good or bad for performance. Wing tips and their merits are highly subjective

  28. #68
    SpainCub's Avatar
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    Wing tips are "really, really" hard to design and have added benefits. Most of them just add drag (yes, even those that are STC'd.) The Day and Night looks to be a bit toward the Horner type, but looks slim in size, so it is working almost like the bow... you gain mostly with the extra cubic feet of wing you get from this mod.

    I'm tempted to say that the fenced tips, with a little tweaking to excite the air and keep outside air flow back without a tendency to creep over and decrease upper pressure should be the best performer on the low end of the flight envelop, on the high end (cruise) you will always get some extra drag, you can extend the TE to move the vortex further out and help building down wash over the tip, flattening out some what the load distribution of the wing (more fit) and/or extend the LE to make them work like a vortilon on the tips. I think Bill Husa (or some one close to him) did something like this for the Glassair Sportsman 2+2... I think.
    Likes Dave Calkins liked this post

  29. #69

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    Wag-aro tips are pretty rough . D&E are nice. Both are for looks.

  30. #70

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    Aviation Consumer 25-30 years ago had a good look. Decided Mr. Piper built a good wingtip.

  31. #71
    SpainCub's Avatar
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    There is no doubt the round look is my favourite, that is why I am so thorn on the idea of end-plates.

  32. #72

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    Fenced tips can be pretty draggy. If looks weren't a factor, I think I'd go with a sheared upswept tip with winglets. The big choice with the winglets would be deciding what crossover altitude to design them for.

  33. #73
    SpainCub's Avatar
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    Yes fence tips, they are draggy; but they (in theory) should give you good performance on the low end of the Re cubs fly at... For looks, I like these here...




    Nice to hear from you Jim!

  34. #74
    Olibuilt's Avatar
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    Do you think this wingtip fence could be improve to work better??

    Really looking forward making a set for my project. Easy to build and very cheap...

    Click image for larger version. 

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  35. #75
    SpainCub's Avatar
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    Have a read here on TN 2440... Please note what JimC has to say on the subject, he is highly qualify to give a better assessment on the subject than I am.

    However, I am encouraged as I have been getting very interesting results in the CL_max range of my airfoil. I have a shaped endplate that is substantially different to the image you provide, taking into account total chord for the endplate and some additional feature to excite the air flow from high pressure area to the exterior of the wing span. In other words, increasing the airflow on the lower camber and increase vortixity further back on the wings TE. This works best on a high camber airfoil and for droopy ailerons., so I am not sure how it applies to USA 35B MOD....

    Here is a hint:



    From some estimates, you can expect a 3-6% gain as per the paper and another two-folds of that over all for the vortixity effect on the Max L/D ratio (slow flying) but . You will still loose some 2-5 mph (guesstimate) with the added drag on the airplane.

    I really liked the idea of adding slotted wingtip to a cub, JimC brought that up a long time ago, so I hope that he can take some time from with his day job work and we can encourage him to get this done soon to see how it works...

    BTW, giving it some thought, anyone have plans for the droopy ailerons some have in their cubs? I was considering a mechanism that, when flaps, and droopy ailerons are enabled, a spoiler would be used to gain aileron authority for slow flight. I know Alec mentioned that it was not working as expected on the Double Ender for extremely slow flight, but it would be interesting to test it.
    Last edited by SpainCub; 03-31-2014 at 05:52 AM. Reason: Damn you auto correct!

  36. #76
    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpainCub View Post
    ....BTW, giving it some thought, anyone have plans for the droopy ailerons some have in their cubs? I was considering a mechanism that, when flaps, and droopy ailerons are enabled, a spoiler would be used to gain aileron authority for slow flight. I know Alec mentioned that it was not working as expected on the Double Ender for extremely slow flight, but it would be interesting to test it.
    Drooping ailerons are good. BUT, keep the control for drooping separate from the control for the flaps. There are times when you will want flaps down and the ailerons not drooped.
    N1PA

  37. #77
    SpainCub's Avatar
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    Yes, great thought I clearly see your point and thank you for sharing that after thought!

  38. #78

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    Has anyone had any thoughts on the 2plus2 sportsman tips on a exp supercub?

  39. #79
    DW's Avatar
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    A lot of guys have removed the droop aileron system myself included I found at the very low numbers you lost most of your aileron authority with no down force on your up wing and in very Windy conditions best to not use it at all.

  40. #80
    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DW View Post
    A lot of guys have removed the droop aileron system myself included I found at the very low numbers you lost most of your aileron authority with no down force on your up wing and in very Windy conditions best to not use it at all.
    Don't remove the aileron droop system. Separate it from the flap system so that they operate separately from each other. I found that drooping ailerons reduce stall speed by 5-7 knots. Mine use a 172 flap motor to operate. No connection to the flaps. They are very helpful for take off into the wind. I agree with you on cross wind activities. I don't use them in crosswinds.
    N1PA

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