Wing Tip Shape Summary

Steve's Aircraft (Brian) · Jan 9, 2012

dplunkt said:
Brian (Steve's aircraft)... when you added the Sullivan tips to your Pacer could you have installed them without extending the wing? oi meand could you have cut off the spare extention to equal the original wing span? Or does the STC prohibit that?

Dan

The installation instructions are with the wing extended.... To deviate from that would probably require a field approval since the original approval is with the extension. Besides that, you want the extra wing area on the short wing of the Pacer.

When I talked to Ron when doing this conversion he had told me that he originally designed and approved these tips so that owners of Plane Booster/Ferguson droop tips could easily replace them with his tips. The extension of the wing is identical. There are a lot of owners that do not like the droops due to their "blocking" part of your view area past the wing tip.

On another note.... The addition of VG's on the wing bring back most if not all of the aileron control, but I still think getting the ailerons out to the tip would be the best solution.

Brian.

jgerard · Jan 9, 2012

FYI both the long and short wing piper wings are the same length outboard of the struts. Extending the the wing beyond the factory length should include also beefing up the rear spar at the strut to handle the increased loads. For a stock 1750lbs gross cub I would be conservative with long wings, heavy loads, and heavy turbulence or high G maneuvers.

Jason

mike mcs repair · Jan 9, 2012

cgoldy said:
Are there any tips available or has any one made tips that include a fence?

crosswinds, sorta
http://www.crosswindsstol.com/products.html

moneyburner · Jan 9, 2012

Gunny said:
Aerodon - Just so no one is confused, the Dakota tips are only STC'd on a Dakota wing. I am not saying that they cannot be field approved (337) but they are not STC'd on any wing except a Dakota wing. Also, to the best of my knowledge Dakota does not have any data to support a 337 application for the tips on a non-Dakota wing. With all of that said, I am pretty willing to bet that somebody on here would share a successful Dakota tip 337 with you in support of a similar application. There are plenty of Dakota tips on non-Dakota wings to testify to that but as always - YMMV depending on what flavor of Fed you are standing in front of.

I put a set on my PA-12 with a 337 - my IA didn't even scowl. "Easy as pie" was his techno-aeronautical bureaucratese term for it.

Terry E · Jan 16, 2012

stewart tips

these were easy to install.

phdigger123 · Jan 17, 2012

jgerard said:
FYI both the long and short wing piper wings are the same length outboard of the struts. Extending the the wing beyond the factory length should include also beefing up the rear spar at the strut to handle the increased loads. For a stock 1750lbs gross cub I would be conservative with long wings, heavy loads, and heavy turbulence or high G maneuvers.

Jason

For what it is worth, the load on a wing is not linear. The highest loading is at the root and it decreases to zero at the tip. The decrease is not linear, it looks more like a parabola.

Iflylower · Jan 17, 2012

phdigger123 said:
For what it is worth, the load on a wing is not linear. The highest loading is at the root and it decreases to zero at the tip. The decrease is not linear, it looks more like a parabola.

Im curious how that changes in strutted vs cantelevered planes? Load testing has shown Cubs to load fail at the rear spar strut attach point, so that is a good place to beef up with some doublers. Also, I learned from Steve pierce that Piper approves a spar splice outside of the wing strut attach. Inside is a no/go.

Cajun Joe · Jan 17, 2012

In my short experience:
Droop tips suck. I found no lift advantage and the
make it difficult to see past the wing from the cockpit.

The original bow tips are great. You can bump into
hangar doors and stuff and they usually bounce back.

Yeah, I guess that's the trick word..usually
Of course I've bumped into a few things and
nothing on the plane bounced back...cept me.

Steve Pierce · Jan 17, 2012

Joe, Speaking of bumping into things. I was using my slide hammer the other dy and thought about you. 8)

Cajun Joe · Jan 17, 2012

that piece of black and blue webbing
between the thumb and forefinger??

bummer

rotto789 · Jan 18, 2012

In my short experience:
Droop tips suck. I found no lift advantage and the
make it difficult to see past the wing from the cockpit

These are the reasons I dont want to install the droop tips on my smith cub, mine came with the kit, has any one had experiance with no tips at all ? just fabric rap the end rib and maybe put a stall fence on the trailing top half of the tip rib, I have seen some represntations of this on a few other cubs, one of wayne Macky's early SQ2s had this, is there any advantage or disadvantage of doing it this way? would save a guy some money if he didnt have to buy wing tips, fabricating a fence would be a piece of cake.

Rick

cgoldy · Jan 18, 2012

Rick,

I plan to do exactly that. But i will fabricate and end plate with the fence incorporated. When the supplier of my wing tips told me that they are aesthetic only, I wondered why I bothered putting them on. The small fence needs some research. Are there any pictures of wayne's?

Ruidoso Ron · Jan 18, 2012

Cajun Joe said:
Yeah, I guess that's the trick word..usually
Of course I've bumped into a few things and
nothing on the plane bounced back...cept me.

Yeah Joe, I think I have pictures somewhere. If you would like, I'll try to dig them up. Who loves you Joe?

Steve Pierce · Jan 18, 2012

Joe, I have a picture of Ron if you need a little "dig" on Ron. 8)

Ruidoso Ron · Jan 18, 2012

Steve Pierce said:
Joe, I have a picture of Ron if you need a little "dig" on Ron. 8)

Hell Steve! The whole world has embarrassing pictures of me in a Super Cub. I'm kind of like the Paris Hilton of SC.Org. (Maybe I should rephrase that) I thank you in that, at least, you didn't have t-shirts and coffee mugs made from them.

O.K. That's more posts in the last two days, than I've posted in the last two years. I think I'll go back into hibernation. Wake me for the OK18 Fly In.

Steve Pierce · Jan 18, 2012

LOL, I am just enjoying you guys return. You haven't seen pictures of my adventures this summer. :yikez:

Ruidoso Ron · Jan 19, 2012

Steve Pierce said:
LOL, I am just enjoying you guys return. You haven't seen pictures of my adventures this summer.

No, but I have heard stories.

tempdoug · Jan 19, 2012

Rick, Super11xp on here has no wing tips, maybe he would chime in?

rotto789 · Jan 19, 2012

Rick,

I plan to do exactly that. But i will fabricate and end plate with the fence incorporated. When the supplier of my wing tips told me that they are aesthetic only, I wondered why I bothered putting them on. The small fence needs some research. Are there any pictures of wayne's?

Goldy,
Here is the link to Wayne's early SQ2 review has some good pictures of his wing tips, or lack of !! I think a guy could fab the fence out of 1/8 lexon or plexy, would be paintable and easily repaceable if you were to say hit a branch or something Ha Ha !!

http://www.eaa.org/sportaviationmag/2010/1007_Backcounty.pdf

Rick

Dave Calkins · Jan 19, 2012

Goldy and Rick, The tip plate/fence is simple, but the advantage ends there. Wayne changed to a Sullivan/Hendricks style tip after testing revealed that the tip vortex with that tip fence/plate was hitting the top of the wing about 4 feet inboard of the tip....not a good thing.

There is some discussion here. If you look hard enough, or someone does a search, there is discussion where Jerry Burr talked about his research and gave report to flying qualities of various tip designs. I believe the Sullivan tip ends up with highest marks...still, it's just a wingtip

rotto789 · Jan 19, 2012

Goldy and Rick, The tip plate/fence is simple, but the advantage ends there. Wayne changed to a Sullivan/Hendricks style tip after testing revealed that the tip vortex with that tip fence/plate was hitting the top of the wing about 4 feet inboard of the tip....not a good thing

Dave,

Do you think the Fence would be better served on the bottom of the trailing edge in a similar fashion to the one that Wayne had on his old SQ2 only inverted? that way the vortex would help create lift,( I am just thinking out loud here, I may me be way off in my thinking), would still resemble the Droop tips only smaller, less surface area and create less visual intrusion under the wing......Just a thought.

Rick

Cajun Joe · Jan 19, 2012

Steve, Ron y'all stop foolin around on this site.
These guys are serious about this whole wing tip thingee...
Check this out: "would still resemble the Droop tips only smaller,
less surface area and create less visual intrusion under the wing....."

Visual Intrusion! Steve, chew on that for awhile.

Cajun Joe · Jan 19, 2012

I'm sorry rotto789; truly I am.
I am a dear romantic when it comes to the English language
and the cleverlessness of warping words..
I thought your phrase "Visual Intrusion" was really neat
and pointed it out to SP because he is a serious student
of Cubisms.
As far as how it relates to wings, I have no idea.
As far as stupid comments go, speaking for Massey
"he makes a lot of them."

Cajun Joe · Jan 19, 2012

Southerner?

Guess I'll join Massey and "hibernate" until OK18 rolls.
Later

cubscout · Jan 19, 2012

Dang! After carefully 'splainin' to Joe some years ago the similar linguistic usage between "coonass" and "yooper" (i.e., either a term of endearment or fightin' words, depending on who sez it and in what tone, one meets t'other :wink:

. And of course I enjoy both cultures. And this has been an interesting string.

Rotto, you'll hafta do some research (lighter than air area, I believe), on a piece entitled approximately "Joe Moves ta' da' U.P." [Which Joe took with good grace and some fun banter.]

Tanks, eh? cubscout

Dave Calkins · Jan 19, 2012

I usually just tune you guys out. Between you and the nimpo/tango deal, I can't keep up with you......and wouldn't try if I could.

Goldy, I don't know the answer to your question. Wouldn't hurt to experiment. Did you try using the search function for that Jerry Burr stuff about tips. Maybe he discussed it. I do recall a discussion of "splates", which I think is a tip plate.

NimpoCub · Jan 20, 2012

Dave Calkins said:
I usually just tune you guys out. Between you and the nimpo/tango deal, I can't keep up with you......and wouldn't try if I could.

DC, are you sayin' that you are somehow miffed @ the good-natured bantering between some of us?
I kinda figgered it would elicit a smile, not "tuned out" irritation.
SORRY if that's the case.

cubdriver2 · Jan 20, 2012

I told you guy's this was right on the money:lol: I posted this last week, find your caracter

This is an example of how we all get along somedays ;-) :lol:

http://youtu.be/WjoDEQqyTig

Glenn

Dave Calkins · Jan 20, 2012

Hah, I am rarely "miffed" Logan.

I read what everyone writes.......some of it gets tuned out. Most of what George writes gets "tuned out"

...and Eaton

I just don't have the mental capacity to comment on it all

Dave Calkins · Jan 20, 2012

Glenn, if that's the birds on the wire, I got a kick out of that. True, true!

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