Olibuilt 's New Cub project

[skywagon8a]

Oli,
You have placed a bending load on the eye bolt. This is an engineering no no. The load path should be in a straight line from your cross wire to the float deck fitting. The picture doesn't show the aft side of your strut to float fitting. You would have a better load path if you had a wire pull strap under the nut on the horizontal bolt through the deck fitting. Attach the cross wire to the wire pull strap. This will give you a straight pull.

Will the way you have it fail? I can't answer that question other than to say that is not the way it should be done.

[high time cub]

I was away from home all summer. I'm now back and installing Clamar 2180 amphibs under that red plane.





Do you guys think it is an acceptable method to attach the 5/16 fly wire clevis to a 5/16 i-bolt, like shown in the picture bellow?

Attachment 63844

Old-timey rigging detail:

Regards,

HT & B

[Olibuilt]

I agree, this is why I ask.




Look at a few others. Do you think it is stronger with a 3/16 bent stainless steel pull strap closer to the bolt? I do.








Clamar 2180a to strut



Wipline 2100a to spreader bar





Clamar 2180a to strut



Clamar 2180a to spreader bar

[skywagon8a]

This is a cross wire attachment on an EDO 2000. The flat strap between the wire and the spreader attachment bolt is called a wire pull. Notice the thick piece under the head of the bolt with the curved section against the wire pull. This is to prevent the bending of the bolt while pulling at an angle.

This is another example of attaching a cross wire.

[cubdriver2]

Your trying to lock the floats into a rigged position, why run the wire to an aluminum strut when it would be easy to run it to the float anchored to the float attach bracket?

Glenn

[BC12D-4-85]

Think shake during takeoff or landing when attaching tie wires. One float gets hit then the other by any waves, gets worse with a heavy plane and large waves. The whole plane can rock from one float to the other and the wires have to alternately absorb and transfer that momentum to something capable of handling it over time. I'd want long term tough mounts.

Gary

[BC12D-4-85]

Now that's an EYE BOLT with some strength. Not that puny one in #642.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/39405785222...Bk9SR_6NxYieYQ

[skywagon8a]

Your trying to lock the floats into a rigged position, why run the wire to an aluminum strut when it would be easy to run it to the float anchored to the float attach bracket?

Glenn

Glenn,
That eye bolt is going through the strut and the fitting which then attaches to the deck fitting. Pretty solid.
That eye bolt would be suitable to attach the crosswire to the upper fitting since the cross wire pull would be a in a straight pull not a bending load at the upper location.

[Dan Gervae]

Wire pulls are the method I used…very solid install.

I agree with Pete about the eye bolt…not the best application maybe. I guess any of the options you illustrated as far as the location to attach the fly wires are ok…it’s a personal preference. My Baumanns are attached to the deck fitting and that works fine too. Aerocet does the deck fitting on the 1500 install.

my Mead deck fittings were a 4 bolt design so I used the bottom strut bolt to keep the pull aligned with the strut.

[Olibuilt]

I plan to use those stainless steel hardware for my 3/32 float rudder cables.



How can I crimp this little ball shank??

[Olibuilt]

I drilled the holes in the rigging struts today.


Airplane is hung up as per previous plan.







Formed poster board paper to make adjustable strut template.












A simple wood jig was made to have all the holes straight.

[Olibuilt]

Transition from cardboard to aluminum went good. I'm going to open the struts gaps to about 1/8".

[skywagon8a]

Looks good so far Oli.

[Grant]

I plan to use those stainless steel hardware for my 3/32 float rudder cables.



How can I crimp this little ball shank??

with one of these... I have one but not for that size cable...

[Bearhawk Builder]

I have one with all the dies, send it down and I'll swage them for you.

[Dan Gervae]

Looking good! I have to say, I really had fun rigging my floats. I learned so much from all of you here on this site. Oli, do leading edge slats change your AOA significantly on landing? I’m interested to see how it performs….it really looks nice on those floats. Great job

[Olibuilt]

Oli, do leading edge slats change your AOA significantly on landing? I’m interested to see how it performs….it really looks nice on those floats. Great job

I can land with a very high nose up attitude. Won't be possible without hitting float heels..

That is why I've went with 6 degrees. Hope it performs good on water and on land, will see next spring..

[skywagon8a]

That is why I've went with 6 degrees. Hope it performs good on water and on land, will see next spring..

6 degrees will produce high drag with increased nose down pitching moment for cruise and climb. In addition to the high drag for cruise you will need a lot of nose up trim which is more drag.

[Olibuilt]

If 5.5 degrees works for Bill Rusk, it should work for me, and Clamars have smaller flat tops.

I really hope the plane will takeoff and land short, even with the added weight...


I have no experience at all with amphibs, but this is my kind of landing (without the bouncing nose wheels..)



See at 0:40

[Supercubrancher]

Hey Oli, great plane and great thread. What is your pirep on the p mags?

[Olibuilt]

Hey Oli, great plane and great thread. What is your pirep on the p mags?

P mags have been working flawlessly. Engine is very easy to start, cold or hot. I've changed sparkplugs twice since, just because they are not expensive to buy.

Have not hand prop it since the p-mag, shame on me.

[Rob]

If 5.5 degrees works for Bill Rusk, it should work for me, and Clamars have smaller flat tops.

I really hope the plane will takeoff and land short, even with the added weight...


I have no experience at all with amphibs, but this is my kind of landing (without the bouncing nose wheels..)



See at 0:40

That was fun

I never really realized how much they look like a shopping cart falling out of the sky.

Merry Christmas! I love this thread!

[BC12D-4-85]

Cut power quick plus brakes applied nose drops despite full up elevator. It's still a pilot control option to smooth the flare.

Gary

[mvivion]

And 182s are nose heavy, especially on amphibs.

A story about opening up the angle between floats and airframe: After an incident, I needed a replacement airplane. I was told the Aircraft Division would have a 185 rigged on floats for me in a day or two.

Years before, they acquired military surplus EDO 3430 straight floats that were rigged for Cessna 195s. These floats were all brand new, never used by the military. 3430s are a very nice 185 float for working, but 195 rigging?

These mechanics had done some careful measuring years before, and found the 195 rigging had longer spreader bars, so floats were wider….not a bad thing, but rear struts were too long for 185. So, cut off the rear struts, and voila….185 floats.

Well, apparently, somewhere along the line, either someone forgot to write that number down, or the paperwork was lost. So, in this case, somebody decided to work from memory. We all know how that works.

I arrive in ANC to pick up my new ride, and just looking at the plane sitting on floats on the water, it seemed pretty nose high. But, it’d been a while since I flew a 185 on EDOs, so, whatever. I completed a careful pre flight, and taxied out to conduct a maintenance test flight.

A normal takeoff and initial climb, but as I start the accel to climb speed the thing starts vibrating like a a dog sh#$ting peach pits. Power to idle, and land. Hood Tower asks what’s going on, and now I’m the one shaking. I taxi back to parking and explain to Maintenance there’s something wrong with the plane.

There had been a recent management change there, so a meeting was convened……with one of their pilots volunteered to do a “proper” flight test….. Like an idiot, I go along for the ride.

We take off, the thing is shaking hard, and the Gypsy in the left seat is just sitting there. He says “This doesn’t seem too bad”. Incredulous, I asked him what our airspeed was. Him “Damn, I can’t read the instrument, it’s shaking so bad it’s a blur….”. And, now, we’re over the Inlet, northbound. Return to Hood, land, park, and my pilot is shaking as bad as the plane. And I’m really questioning my judgement.

Told Maintenance to figure it out and call me when it’s done.

turns out they’d cut the rear vertical struts off a wee bit more than specified in the paperwork they suddenly found. Only thing we could figure was that what we were feeling were power pulses off that big 88 inch two bladed prop hitting the tails of the float decks.

A “common” bootleg improvement these guys did on at least some of our 180s rigged on 2870 EDOs was to drill one more hole in aft struts and cut off the top of those struts, increasing the angle between the floats and plane. The “proper” cutoff for the 195 float rigging of our 185s did the same thing. In this case, they’d just taken it further…with weird but scary results.

MTV

[Rob]

Cut power quick plus brakes applied nose drops despite full up elevator. It's still a pilot control option to smooth the flare.

Gary

My feeble float less mind kept saying power.... power... power.. ah shiv... you're all plopped out now, may as well move out of the way for the next in line

[mvivion]

My feeble float less mind kept saying power.... power... power.. ah shiv... you're all plopped out now, may as well move out of the way for the next in line

He was carrying a LOT of power on that approach, Rob. Just didn't keep it in there to soften the blow on those nose gears.....Amphib nose gears are sorta like tailwheels-The Rodney Dangerfield thing: They don't get no respect.

MTV

[Rob]

He was carrying a LOT of power on that approach, Rob. Just didn't keep it in there to soften the blow on those nose gears.....Amphib nose gears are sorta like tailwheels-The Rodney Dangerfield thing: They don't get no respect.

MTV

[Olibuilt]

Airplane is sitting on it's wheels. Fly wires are fitted. Wing to float angle looks good to me.
Foot steps are not fitted yet. They are heavy. I'm for a simple light solution..

Fly wire is going trough cargo pod door. Will fabricate another door instead of cutting this one, 2 aluminum doors in fact.

[skywagon8a]

Foot steps are not fitted yet. They are heavy. I'm for a simple light solution..

Cut lightening holes in the web to reduce the weight.

Something like this. A bit hard to see but should give you the idea.

[Olibuilt]

Floats are off that red Super Cub. Now on skis.


I'll make things ready for next spring season first real installation. Can't wait!!!

[skywagon8a]

You may want to make those steps extend further forward to make it easier for filling the gas tanks. It's hard to reach with the fuel nozzle in one hand while trying to hold on with the other while standing on the toes of one foot.

[StalledOut]

Not to mention that step looks pretty high, must be a good stretch to get from the top of the float up onto it.
I have a bar mid way up the strut and a peg up higher to step onto when fueling.

[NunavutPA-12]

I have the same Clamar 2200's but mine are straights. This position of the step works well for me although a handle on the boot cowl would make things safer.

[aflyer]

Just beautiful! My dad would say “So you wanted red, but that’s all you could find?”