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Thread: Olibuilt 's New Cub project

  1. #441
    www.SkupTech.com mike mcs repair's Avatar
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    Instead of quick attachment just make them hinged and folding You’d only need a lock on top or the bottom depending on which way you make it fold.


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  2. #442
    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    Good idea mike, A piano hinge along the bottom and three dzus or cam-locks along the top. Some gasket material in the joint or some other method of minimizing some airflow in the joint.
    N1PA

  3. #443
    cubdriver2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DENNY View Post
    Cubdriver2
    You start loosing ground as soon as that tailwheel touches, it is not much but usually but it is noticeable. The trick is to leave the ground with letting it touch. That is why guys are pulling the wheel completely and putting on scrub pads.
    DENNY
    A tailspring might compress an inch if you over rotate and touch the TW. The T3 will compress about 5 or 6" allowing your tail to get lower and allowing the wing to get to a greater AOA then just sitting there static.

    Glenn
    "Optimism is going after Moby Dick in a rowboat and taking the tartar sauce with you!"

  4. #444
    cubdriver2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DENNY View Post
    Cubdriver2
    That is why guys are pulling the wheel completely and putting on scrub pads.
    DENNY
    Look at pictures of a stock J4, the TW is mounted 3' in front of the tailpost. The lowly J4 Has more factory AOA then any Piper sold



    ~

    Glenn
    Last edited by cubdriver2; 01-14-2019 at 11:04 PM.
    "Optimism is going after Moby Dick in a rowboat and taking the tartar sauce with you!"
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  5. #445
    www.SkupTech.com mike mcs repair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cubdriver2 View Post
    A tailspring might compress an inch if you over rotate and touch the TW. The T3 will compress about 5 or 6" allowing your tail to get lower and allowing the wing to get to a greater AOA then just sitting there static.

    Glenn
    tail SPRING will compress enough to bend rudder... seen may....

  6. #446
    www.SkupTech.com mike mcs repair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skywagon8a View Post
    Good idea mike, A piano hinge along the bottom and three dzus or cam-locks along the top. Some gasket material in the joint or some other method of minimizing some airflow in the joint.
    was more thinking actuating rod operated from trailing edge with a couple/few latches actuated from it...

  7. #447
    cubdriver2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike mcs repair View Post
    tail SPRING will compress enough to bend rudder... seen may....
    Yes when you stall it in from 5'

    Glenn
    "Optimism is going after Moby Dick in a rowboat and taking the tartar sauce with you!"

  8. #448
    Lowrider
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    I'm coming in a little late in the discussion but Sky convinced me I should consider droop ailerons which I did and have incorporated 8 degree droops on my wings. I also provided a way to lock them in the upper position so I can have normal ailerons should I want them. With all the improvements Oli has on his wings it may not be worthy of consideration at this point...just thought I'd throw that out for a project for next Winter.
    Somewhere along the way I have lost the ability to act politically correct. If you should find it, please feel free to keep it.

    There are no new ways to crash an airplane no matter how hard you may try!

  9. #449

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    Glenn
    I have been trying to figure how to stick a tailwheel in the same position for the past two years. I have done a lot of internet search but this is the first time I have seen that pic. Too low for off field work but would be a fun fly-in setup (I would addd a rear skid just in case). If you compress a steel or T3 tail spring on takeoff the drag is going to cost you 10-30 feet in take off distance.
    DENNY

  10. #450
    BC12D-4-85's Avatar
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    A dinged rudder is a Citabria owner's mark of experience. Short gear and low AOA plus weak tail spring allow tail first arrivals prone to damage. Longer gear and Scout tail spring fixes the problem.

    There was a J-4 in Fairbanks that dissolved sitting at Phillips Field in the 1970's. Nobody wanted to love it. Today they are very desirable.

    Gary

  11. #451
    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike mcs repair View Post
    was more thinking actuating rod operated from trailing edge with a couple/few latches actuated from it...
    The hinged or removable extension is ripe for various attachment methods when a clever mind puts on his thinking cap.
    N1PA

  12. #452
    cubdriver2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skywagon8a View Post
    The hinged or removable extension is ripe for various attachment methods when a clever mind puts on his thinking cap.
    RV hood wire

    Glenn
    "Optimism is going after Moby Dick in a rowboat and taking the tartar sauce with you!"

  13. #453
    cubdriver2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DENNY View Post
    Glenn
    I have been trying to figure how to stick a tailwheel in the same position for the past two years. I have done a lot of internet search but this is the first time I have seen that pic. Too low for off field work but would be a fun fly-in setup (I would addd a rear skid just in case). If you compress a steel or T3 tail spring on takeoff the drag is going to cost you 10-30 feet in take off distance.
    DENNY
    Yup, I know. But I was making a point that the T3 will keep your AOA

    And your right about off field, I flew my J4 on skis for 4 winters and the elevators are in the snow. Have to be careful if the plane slides backwards on a slope, if you don't hold the stick forward the elevators will dig in.





    Glenn
    Last edited by cubdriver2; 01-15-2019 at 08:36 AM.
    "Optimism is going after Moby Dick in a rowboat and taking the tartar sauce with you!"
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  14. #454

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    Here’s another way to gain some AOA.
    1-delicately notch the rudder for added wheel travel
    2-invert leaf spring
    3-run a flat tailwheel (good for another 1” of AOA)
    My attempt at obtaining field approval however failed, plane has since been restored to original configuration.

    22A65C08-F29C-4951-9F03-FD30C0C1CAD9.jpeg

  15. #455
    cubdriver2's Avatar
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    There is another advantage to the TW that far forward. I have done some very short dropped in landings in my J4. The spring will flatten out but the TW just bottoms out on the bottom of the fuse. I once broke the single main leaf spring while landing short trying to impress Timmy at breakfast on hard frozen ground. Other then the dragging TW holding on by the steering springs there was no damage to the rudder other then grass stains and bouncing TW poking a few holes thru the fabric. Welded spring back together and off we went.

    Glenn
    Last edited by cubdriver2; 01-15-2019 at 11:58 AM.
    "Optimism is going after Moby Dick in a rowboat and taking the tartar sauce with you!"
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  16. #456
    Olibuilt's Avatar
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    I'll take the winter to think about the wingtips. But Backcountry Cubs wingtip quick attach sound like a good idea.



    Just came out the paint shop. Primer is on. Took the time to modified my front seat. To fold, and to be able to slide it from the right side....?? at last....

    Tomorrow I will begin to cover the 3x3 elevators.


    IMG_9040.JPG

  17. #457

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    you have a idea there oliver, just form a half moon into the rudder, wouldnt that work, be a eye catcher showing you mean business.

  18. #458

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    Quote Originally Posted by DENNY View Post
    Glenn
    I have been trying to figure how to stick a tailwheel in the same position for the past two years. I have done a lot of internet search but this is the first time I have seen that pic. Too low for off field work but would be a fun fly-in setup (I would addd a rear skid just in case). If you compress a steel or T3 tail spring on takeoff the drag is going to cost you 10-30 feet in take off distance.
    DENNY
    use a round stinger for your tail spring and form a halfmoon into the bottom of the rudder, just a thought.
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  19. #459
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    Quote Originally Posted by Olibuilt View Post
    I'll take the winter to think about the wingtips. But Backcountry Cubs wingtip quick attach sound like a good idea.



    Just came out the paint shop. Primer is on. Took the time to modified my front seat. To fold, and to be able to slide it from the right side....?? at last....

    Tomorrow I will begin to cover the 3x3 elevators.


    IMG_9040.JPG

    Putting the lever for releasing the slide for the seat on the right side MAKES WAY TOO MUCH SENSE !!!!!!! Having to reach over the seat and most of the time having to pull out the seat cushion; is just a poor design. It's great seeing all of the important, common sense improvements, in this airplane. Like the homemade forward flap handle, it's inspirational seeing actual experimental ideas tested instead of just a list of gadgets bought off the web.
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  20. #460
    Olibuilt's Avatar
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    The grey 3x3 elevators compared to stock red one.

    Will try to paint them this week.


    IMG_9044.JPG

  21. #461

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    At Johnson Creek a couple years ago, Jim Richmond of Cub Crafters, took my folding full sized e bike for a spin (among others). Upon his return, we talked about how it would fit in a SC.....to my surprise, the pilot seat, as I recall anyway, did NOT flip forward, making getting the folded bike in problematic, at best.

    I was ready to write a check out for an X Cub, but luckily I discovered this shortcoming in time, so I'm still making do with the Rans S-7S. Ha ha. Point being, the folding seat is a no brainer, I'd bet once having one, none go back to a fixed?
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  22. #462
    www.SkupTech.com mike mcs repair's Avatar
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    If you make a seat fold also add provisions to lock it upright. In a crash stuff may come forward and pin you. Had one guy whose non folding seat was quite bent by moose quarter that hit seat and exited the door/window.


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  23. #463
    Jonnyo's Avatar
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    Olibuilt mentioning moving the seat slide release to the right side of the seat is another great idea by him. It will make maintenance with the spring and catch easier.

    A stock Supercub seat can be removed in 2 seconds by depressing the slide release with your left hand. It goes back in almost as easily, if your seat is not in poor condition. With 2 small, welded on, guide rails, that might weigh half an ounce, the seat can be replaced in complete darkness with my Winter gloves on. I remove mine all the time, and set it on top of a Rubbermaid tub, when I am in hunting camp. A 1 inch ratchet strap down the center of the seat holds it to the tub. Why bring a 5 pound chair?

    If I have only stopped to pick up a load of meat, it takes 1 second to run the seat forward to where it's ready to fall off the rails in the front. In that position, I can easily load moose quarters. For me, a folding seat is just another 1 pound gizmo, I don't need.

    Jonny


    Quote Originally Posted by courierguy View Post
    At Johnson Creek a couple years ago, Jim Richmond of Cub Crafters, took my folding full sized e bike for a spin (among others). Upon his return, we talked about how it would fit in a SC.....to my surprise, the pilot seat, as I recall anyway, did NOT flip forward, making getting the folded bike in problematic, at best.

    I was ready to write a check out for an X Cub, but luckily I discovered this shortcoming in time, so I'm still making do with the Rans S-7S. Ha ha. Point being, the folding seat is a no brainer, I'd bet once having one, none go back to a fixed?

  24. #464
    BC12D-4-85's Avatar
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    They fold and then whatever is forcing that from the rear can push the pilot into the shoulder harness or eat the panel. The setup needs to be lockable until folding is required. Use a safety cable or whatever to lock the back upright. I know it'll never happen but think about the consequences if it does. I've had both and yes folding makes loading easier. The front stick gets in the way for removing a fixed seat. It's easy to remove and replace the stick while loading if a quick release pin is installed.

    Gary
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  25. #465

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    Johnny,
    can you elaborate on “guide rails” idea?
    my seat is a real PIA to re install

    Doug
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  26. #466

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    Quote Originally Posted by BC12D-4-85 View Post
    They fold and then whatever is forcing that from the rear can push the pilot into the shoulder harness or eat the panel. The setup needs to be lockable until folding is required. Use a safety cable or whatever to lock the back upright. I know it'll never happen but think about the consequences if it does.
    Gary
    I think the proper precaution is to restrain your passenger and cargo so nothing is free to hit the seat back.

    With a folding seat back and a slip-on seat back cushion I can pull the cushion and fold the seat flat. No need to move it for access.
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  27. #467
    www.SkupTech.com mike mcs repair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oliver View Post
    Johnny,
    can you elaborate on “guide rails” idea?
    my seat is a real PIA to re install

    Doug
    His seat must have the stops removed/modified from front of seat if he can remove it from the rear. Normally you must remove the front control stick and slide it of the front of seat base


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  28. #468
    BC12D-4-85's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stewartb View Post
    I think the proper precaution is to restrain your passenger and cargo so nothing is free to hit the seat back...
    Yes in theory. But given a chance or without thinking the passenger will brace themselves with their arms on the pilot's setback. Same for a dog that can be thrown forward. All I'm suggesting is adding some form of restraint to the folding seat that can be released to allow it to fold flat. Invention, etc.

    Gary
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  29. #469

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    Quote Originally Posted by BC12D-4-85 View Post
    Yes in theory. But given a chance or without thinking the passenger will brace themselves with their arms on the pilot's setback. Same for a dog that can be thrown forward. All I'm suggesting is adding some form of restraint to the folding seat that can be released to allow it to fold flat. Invention, etc.

    Gary
    i agree, a simple quick release pin would do it
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  30. #470
    BC12D-4-85's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cub12 View Post
    i agree, a simple quick release pin would do it
    Here's a YouTube grab of a Cub's folding seat: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jidOe1vkqK0

    One option might be to move the centering pins or tangs from the folding portion's bottom to the rear seat crossbar. Then with the seat back upright extend them through and to the rear of the lower folding portion and pin/bolt the exposed ends (?). If that substantially changes the STC then just add a center tang to the rear seat base between the pins, a passthrough slot in the lower back, and pin the exposed part.

    There's probably a better way and someone who does this work might figure it out.

    Gary

  31. #471
    www.SkupTech.com mike mcs repair's Avatar
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    I just add 2 tabs on base of sliding seat and drill through seat back and add quick pins. Right where the hand is in picture


    Sent from my iPhone using SuperCub.Org

  32. #472
    BC12D-4-85's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike mcs repair View Post
    I just add 2 tabs on base of sliding seat and drill through seat back and add quick pins. Right where the hand is in picture
    There's a solution from Mike. Excellent idea and simple to pin the seat for safety.

    Gary

  33. #473
    Larry G's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BC12D-4-85 View Post
    Here's a YouTube grab of a Cub's folding seat: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jidOe1vkqK0

    One option might be to move the centering pins or tangs from the folding portion's bottom to the rear seat crossbar. Then with the seat back upright extend them through and to the rear of the lower folding portion and pin/bolt the exposed ends (?). If that substantially changes the STC then just add a center tang to the rear seat base between the pins, a passthrough slot in the lower back, and pin the exposed part.

    There's probably a better way and someone who does this work might figure it out.

    Gary
    I was thinking the same thing on my seat Mike that is my YouTube video

  34. #474
    Olibuilt's Avatar
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    I had the time to install and flight test the 3x3 elevators. They are only .1 pound heavier per side, according to my amazon luggage scale. Medium fabric and less paint could have contributed.

    My girlfriend was aboard, wind a little gusty too, so real testing will be another time.

    The ''new'', now black skis are working good too.

    IMG_9296.jpg

    IMG_9297.jpg

    IMG_9298.jpg
    Last edited by Olibuilt; 02-16-2019 at 06:07 PM.

  35. #475
    Olibuilt's Avatar
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    A little video clip of the last landing:


  36. #476
    flyrite's Avatar
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    Seems like ya almost got your tail able to get all the lift outta the wing before ya run out of pitch!

  37. #477
    Olibuilt's Avatar
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    Yesterday was a good practice day. I cannot say the elevators have shortened the landing distances yet.

    But I did not ran out of elevator authority like it happened a few times before. Test was not so relevant because I trimmed more nose up than before, your fault.....


    Hope you like:












  38. #478
    flyrite's Avatar
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    Man you need to learn how to us your brakes better!
    Awsome performance Doc

  39. #479
    Olibuilt's Avatar
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    Herculiner landings:







  40. #480
    RVBottomly's Avatar
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    That's just plain beautiful, Oli--well, except for the cracked tires!

    I was going to ask if the slats were movable, but I see at the final part of the clip that they close up at rest. I think you have a dream plane.

    Vic

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