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Thread: Stretched PA20/22, Bushmaster, Javelin, etc

  1. #41

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    Really 12gph, not with that airframe, along with the airfoil, and all the rest. you cannot idle a 0540 for 12gph, and if you are running it that lean you will pay the cylinder repairman. fill the tanks, and fly for an hour and stick them, period. I agree with toothcarpenter about flying to fast for the airplane.

  2. #42

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    The Lyc. 0-360 I fly behind, can put some serious hurt on the budget, if applied indiscrimately. The 0-540's I have owned, traded beautiful noise for a rapidly declining fuel guage. Some really nice guy reminded me that the Lyc.360 will suck up 18gph on take off. Haven't yet figured out how to skip that phase of the operation. I admire the guys who have fuel flow meters, and can look at em. It is my guess, that if the 540 Lycoming was a really suitable engine for the Bushmaster, Super Pacer, Producer, etc, there would exist, numerous of them for us to evaluate. I have been really interested in the concept for several years, and just haven't heard of hardly any equipped in that fashion. Thanks! ed
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  3. #43
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    Hi, new to the forum, thought I would add some info to this thread. From BC, and having had the pleasure of meeting a few people with Bushmasters of the Milo version, (no 2 are alike it seems) I set out to purchase one for myself as in my trade I would have no time to build one for myself.. I searched for three years looking a many of the different versions of the build and finally was rewarded by finding one near Palmer Alaska. It is neither a Producer or a Bushmaster but shares a lot of similarities. It began as a Pacer, the wing was stretched 8' by Crosswinds STOL, fuselage stretched 30", wing chord extended 3" with that going to the control surfaces, 10' flaps, 6' ailerons, IO 540 was mounted on a Maule engine mount, 31" bush wheels, 96 gals in 4 tanks, it weighs in at close to 1700 lbs and has a gross weight of 2850 lbs, they did a superb job of building this plane and I could go on for a while with all of the other great features but I just wanted to say from my experience have owned and flown this plane for the last three years that while the fuel burn does hit 22 gal per hour on take off I am at circuit altitude by midfield and have pulled back to 20.5 mp at 2300 rpm (92" Hertzell CS) and leaned to 13.5 GPH on my totalizer which gives me my just lean of peak setting. At these setting I fly at 115 mph indicated which is where I want to be. The fuel burn does not affect my c of g in any significant way. I absolutely love this aircraft while it is no fuel miser it can pack a very large load off a very high, short strip on a very warm day. The power is there when you need it and no carb ice. I do have two batteries in it one forward and one behind the rear baggage. No hand propping this girl, they are wired on separate circuits so I can use either or both. It flies beautifully, no appreciable stall, just mushes down level, nose does not pitch down. It has 4 stall fences one at the end of each control surface, droop tips, vgs, cuff leading edge which adds greatly to the stability. And I love the twin sticks and gull wing doors that can be left open in flight. The firewall and longerones and cockpit as well as the tail were all redesigned to handle the 290 hp that the Lycoming delivers. So if your thinking about whether it will ruin the plane by putting the bigger engine in it, defiantly not, just take the time to do it right and you will have a great performing aircraft that won't burn as much fuel as you think. My next plan after I get the floats on this spring is gami injectors as I know a local who put them on his RV and dropped his fuel burn from 13.5 to 10.5 GPH and yes those are US gallons 😄😄😄😄. I hope this helps anyone considering the option. Cheers


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  4. #44
    Cubus Maximus's Avatar
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  5. #45
    180Marty's Avatar
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    Bushmaster, can you post a bigger picture?

  6. #46

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    Been flying my Stretched Tripacer N4625D since 2007. Engine is a IO360-A3B6D with P235 Pawnee prop pitched at 46. Engine has never missed a beat. A real blast to fly. No bad habits. 2300 rpm around 105 mph. 2 place with large baggage. When I go camping I bring the firewood and barbacue. My longest non-stop flight was 2.5 hours. Leaned to peak EGT maybe a little more I put 14 gallons in it when I landed. Got the prop inspected and dual mag overhauled this winter. I wish this winter would end so I could put the plane back together and go flying. Search my name in the forum and photos for more info on my plane.

  7. #47
    Bushmaster1111's Avatar
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    Gotta figure out how, it keeps telling me my post is denied


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  8. #48
    Bushmaster1111's Avatar
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    Let's see if this worksClick image for larger version. 

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  9. #49
    Bushmaster1111's Avatar
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    Just messing around figuring this add pic thing out

    I think this will work better
    Cheers
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  10. #50

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bushmaster1111 View Post
    I think this will work better
    Cheers

    Im im pretty shure that plane is in the (bush pilots of Alaska) video competing in the gulkana stol contest.

    it was a unique plane.

  11. #51
    Bushmaster1111's Avatar
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    Right on, how did they do. I would love to see that video but a quick search shows it's sold out and was in VHS format. Which kinda sets the date. I think they stopped the STOL contest in Gulkana in the late 90s and moved it to Valdez. This plane was finished in 93 so it's quite possible, thanks for the feedback cheers


    Bushmaster

  12. #52
    Airwrench's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bushmaster1111 View Post
    I think this will work better
    Cheers
    Glad to see this one still around, and being well taken care of.
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  13. #53
    Bushmaster1111's Avatar
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    Thanks Airwrench, I'll have it back on floats for this summer, can hardly wait!


    Bushmaster

  14. #54
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    When you build an experimental stretched Pacer with PA 14 wings what does the gross weight of the plane work out to? Seems like you would have to go with the PA 14 1850 lbs. I know it is experimental and you can calculate what ever gross weight you want but if you do nothing but copy a 14 wing and strut combo it seems safer to use the certified gross weight.

    Is this what people are using or are there ways of beefing up the 14 wing to a higher gross weight that has proven to be safe?

  15. #55
    Bushmaster1111's Avatar
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    The wing on mine started as a pa 20 wing that was stretched 8 feet and had 3" added to the chord giving it the surface area allowing for the upgrade in gross weight. The previous owner along with the builder of the wing came up with the original gross weight for it but to add to that when I imported it into canada I had to submit my own weight and balance to transport canada as part of getting my Canadian c of a. I used the formula that I got from EAA and came up with the same results as the previous owner for that gross weight upgrade. Hope that helps. cheers.


    Bushmaster

  16. #56
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    I am in the process of buying a 1958 PA-22 converted to Bushmaster by STC. It is currently in Kenai on 2440 EDOs with a 180 hp engine.
    I would be interested in hearing from anyone who has flown a similar airplane. Tips, tricks, mechanics.

    I did test fly it - definitely blew my hair back compared to my 135 hp PA-20 on wheels.
    One question I had - it seemed hard to keep the ball in the middle. It this because of the aileron-rudder interconnect, the floats (no extra tail surface area is currently installed), or something I'm missing.

    I can't wait to spend more time in it, and I want to hear from other bushmaster or producer pilots out there.

  17. #57
    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    Is the aileron-rudder interconnect still installed? That could be part of it. Your brief description indicates that the PA-22 seaplane fin ought to be installed. You will be amazed at the improvement with one at no penalty.
    N1PA
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  18. #58
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    Yes, the interconnect is still there. I have never flown with one apart from that test flight -- any tips for flying with the interconnect installed?
    I have been thinking more vertical stablizer is in order. Is there any preference between the horizontal stabilizer mounted ones and the ventral fin?

  19. #59
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    Since that is a certified airplane can you legally remove the interconnect? The interconnect was originally installed on the PA-22 to help pilots in coordinating the controls. Also it contributed to the passing of some of the flight testing maneuvers. A TriPacer is uncomfortable in rough air due to being short coupled and the interconnect tending to over control when you just want to make a small flight adjustment. If you can remove it, do so. If you can't do it anyway.

    The fin will work equally as well under the tail or on the stabilizers as long as they have enough area.
    N1PA
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  20. #60
    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scotthayd View Post
    Yes, the interconnect is still there. I have never flown with one apart from that test flight -- any tips for flying with the interconnect installed?
    Hold feet hard against the pedals when picking up a wing with the ailerons. Doing so you will be stretching the interconnect springs. You can deactivate the interconnect system just by removing the springs and tying back the loose extra cables. No need to cut anything. Then if you get a fussy IA for your annuals you can easily reconnect just for the annual.
    N1PA
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  21. #61
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    Build and pilot report posted in this thread.
    http://www.shortwingpipers.org/forum...ushmaster)-Mod

    Flown Steve Bryant's Producer and was quite impressed. Flew very nice and performance was very impressive.
    Steve Pierce

    Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects.
    Will Rogers

  22. #62
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    There is no specification for how tight the interconnest has to be. Back it off.
    Steve Pierce

    Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects.
    Will Rogers
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  23. #63

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    I'm second-guessing squared-off and increased tail feathers area by about 12 per cent of my nine-year-old Bushmaster/Producer on 2250 Peck floats, stretched by 25 inches PA22 fuselage with Smith wings, removed turtleneck, 0360 with Mac 84/43. Two-seater flying rocket pickup perfect for small places although I work at it in turbulence. I wonder if I should have stuck with SC tail feather dimensions. (Re mention 2440 floats, preference hereabouts is 2250s.)

  24. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by King Brown View Post
    I'm second-guessing squared-off and increased tail feathers area by about 12 per cent of my nine-year-old Bushmaster/Producer on 2250 Peck floats, stretched by 25 inches PA22 fuselage with Smith wings, removed turtleneck, 0360 with Mac 84/43. Two-seater flying rocket pickup perfect for small places although I work at it in turbulence. I wonder if I should have stuck with SC tail feather dimensions. (Re mention 2440 floats, preference hereabouts is 2250s.)
    This one has pa-22 tail feathers. For float flying it seemed fine, but if you wanted to come in with a full stall landing (on wheels) I wonder if I will want more elevator authority. My first step in that case might be VGs. They gave my pacer excellent elevator authority.

  25. #65
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    If this aircraft is STCed useing the Simpson Aviation STC, then the flight tests require the inter connect to pass the flight tests. The only STC for the PA 22 that is approved on Edo 2440 or PK 2300 and the 180 HP engine is Simpson Aviation’s. The PA 22 tail feathers are marginal at best and will stall under 40 mph and the nose of the airplane pitch forward? That could be very dangerous because the floats could dig in the water and flip the airplane. There is a STC to install PA 18 tail feathers on the PA 22 which solves tail stalling problems. Take the modified PA 22 with the original tail feather installed to elevation and stall it and you loose elevator control. With the PA 18 tail feathers installed at stalled you have total elevator control. The inter connect can be adjusted to a comfortable tension and can be easily over ridden if a side slip is necessary.
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  26. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by King Brown View Post
    I'm second-guessing squared-off and increased tail feathers area by about 12 per cent of my nine-year-old Bushmaster/Producer on 2250 Peck floats, stretched by 25 inches PA22 fuselage with Smith wings, removed turtleneck, 0360 with Mac 84/43. Two-seater flying rocket pickup perfect for small places although I work at it in turbulence. I wonder if I should have stuck with SC tail feather dimensions. (Re mention 2440 floats, preference hereabouts is 2250s.)
    What do you like better about the 2250s?

  27. #67

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    I can't make a comparison of 2250s and 2440s, scotthayd. I bought 2250s because they're experimental preference hereabouts, 1 1/2 inches deeper than 2000s, less complicated bottoms than 2440s, currently $CAN25,000. I believe they're a nudge better on my heavier Bushmaster than were the 2000s on my SC. Eddy could tell you more. His number is 902 467 3333.

  28. #68
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    EDO 2440s are shortened versions of the 2870s. As a result there is less floatation aft for airplanes which may have extended baggage compartments. The "sweet" spot ahead of the step is short so may require a bit more finesse when heavily loaded. I had a set on a 172XP, they worked well for that plane.
    N1PA
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  29. #69
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    I have been in the Bushmaster quite a bit since I got it earlier this summer.
    It is quite a performer. With myself, a passenger, two field-dressed caribou and 36 gallons of gas I was able to lift off from a lake at 5,200 feet. It took us about a mile to get on the step, but she managed it. Once in the air climb rate was good at about 700 fpm.

    I like to cruise along at about 20 inches of MP (2200 rpm at 1,000 ft) and get 100 mph and 8 gph. Pretty good economy for being on floats! This plane is a very good setup and I'm quite happy with it.
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  30. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by skywagon8a View Post
    Is the aileron-rudder interconnect still installed? That could be part of it. Your brief description indicates that the PA-22 seaplane fin ought to be installed. You will be amazed at the improvement with one at no penalty.
    I installed a ventral fin and wanted to report back. The plane is safer and easier to fly with a ventral fin installed. I don't find myself glancing between that moose/bear/caribou I'm trying to get a look at and the ball anymore, it just does what it's supposed to do. I feel better knowing I'm less likely to become a statistic.

    I'm planning on putting it on wheels this winter, I'm excited to see what kind of performance I get there.
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