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Rebuilding Flight of Passage - N4971H

View attachment 11492Referencing another picture, do you tighten down these bolts and then have the pulley rotate around the bushing, or do you leave the bolt loose and have the bushing rotate at the bolt? With the lose bolt way, the whole thing is wobbly since it only attaches at the bottom.
Tighten them down after greasing between the pulley and the bushing. That's why the bushing is made a little longer than the pulley is thick.
 
So quite a bit was accomplished during the last work week. By the end of it, I had checked everything off the to-do list that I had made up for the week except making the side walls. Even then Jeff had started on them by taping up some posterboard and sizing everything up. Floorboard and pedals installed seat painted and assembled. cables were run, trim was installed. I was well on my way.

There was some hacking and welding on the fuselage that I had to do. That part sucked. Now I can easily see why many wait till the end to paint the fuselage. One of my older stinger holders broke off, easy weld but the thin metal heats up a good distance and a lot of paint had to be removed. When installing Supercub trim, there is a reason they give precise directions on the front idle pulley angles. I wish I had paid a little more attention here. No matter how I installed those damn cables, two of them always rubbed. I had to grind off the weld and reinstall it as described. Then, no problem. A bit of primer on each area to be followed later on by touch up white. I'll never see them anyway but I just hate to ruin this beautiful frame.

20130530_142857.jpg 20130530_223929.jpgThe original joint at the top of boot cowl, somewhat modified for 2024 and riveted. I was very proud of how well this looked.

Since I was out of parts money, I had aluminum laying around, I started on the boot cowl. I had bought a dozen sheets of poster board from the office supply and went to town forming them. I sized, shaped and then reshaped these for hours. Finally, I thought I had to get cutting, couldn't wait any longer. I cut and shaped a nice three piece cowl with the third piece being on the bottom for rudder pedal access. It was going well until I was fighting with the aluminum to get the back to line up. I cut, reshaped, and bent all I could and then installed. In the end I would up with a boot cowl I'm unhappy with. If this was any ol cub, I'd of pressed on to another job, but I didn't like it.

20130530_223911.jpgLooks real nice from this view.

My ultimate demise case cutting the shape of the cowl out and A: not putting the posterboard under the instrument panel when making the "mold". This pushed the bottom forward no matter how much prying and shaping I did. and B: not giving myself enough extra around the front and rear. I could always trim this off. Why didn't I? I ended up with a very small amount of aluminum on the bottom at the end of the boot cowl. There is no extension on the PA11 and I think I'd look horrible. Kind of aggravating getting to the end and figuring you've wasted two days and a hundred bucks in aluminum.

20130530_223946.jpgNot so good from this angle. Uggggggg. How much extra do others usually leave behind the screws? 1/2, 3/4"? If I cut them all to flush as the bottom one, I assume the holes would eventually crack.

Also aggravating is the amount of work I can do in my Garage. My Garage is technically a “tuck under”, or part of the basement of my house. This part is good because it is cool in the summer and I can actually send air conditioned air into it if need be. The bad part is my foundation that is 85 years old, barely slows down the water as it comes in the soil outside. During heavy rains, water runs in everywhere and is a real pain when working with posterboard. The floor sporadically has flowing water so everything needs to be picked up. This week has been daily heavy rains and today is no exception.

As the credit cards are now paid off, I can head to Wicks and pick up more .025, and also order the many more nuts and bolts I'm still lacking. Maybe next time, since I have practice, I'll get that boot cowl right. Maybe I'll take a break from aluminum and finish up some other items.
 

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You could do yours like Alaska Custom Cub Does theirs. One piece across the top with the other two pieces starting on the side and joining in the center on the bottom. They have pictures on their website. This link takes you to an aircraft photo gallery at the first of six showing the boot cowl specifically: http://airframesalaskallc.shutterfly.com/pictures/9#25
 
Chris, Don't feel like the Lone Ranger, I have a pile of really nice parts that just quite don't fit. The up side is that you learn from each one and you won't make that particular mistake again. Just ask Travis about his latest screw up in the sheet metal department. :roll:
 
So it has been two months since my last update. Despite my lack of words, progress is being made. I'd even started an update a month ago and never posted it. My pictures have also been lacking since my Panasonic camera died. I loved its quality photo but I keep finding more important items to buy instead of a new camera. I'll start this update with the update I meant to do a month ago.

June 16[SUP]th[/SUP]
This last weeks work, I decided to take it real easy. I had severe back pains all last week perhaps as a result of working in odd positions on the cub all the week prior. I had a nephew and in-laws during the first of the week for a surprise visit. Cracking a rib while challenging your newphew to basketball did not help me want to do any work on the cub.

By Tuesday I couldn't resist any more and despite doctor's orders, I did some work. Besides my nephew had really expressed interest in working on the cub. My father-in-law, nephew and I went the to garage and started installing the floorboard and back panel for the baggage compartment. This was easy for me to supervise and I didn't have to be directly involved.

We worked about 3 hours up until dinner time. I wanted to use nutplates instead of tinnermans in the floorboard. I showed them how to install these, using the solid rivets. They couldn't believe the amount of work required to install these but enjoyed learning the rivit squeezer (Thank you Bill Tracy) and other tools used for this. Once they got the hang of it, things went faster. Between my back and my father-in-law's knees, we couldn't wait for dinner to be ready.

DSC01077.jpgNew boot cowl resting on the turtle deck ... to keep it safe. notice my wonderfully clean and spacious garage.

Thursday and Friday were spent re-making the boot cowl. I had picked up several items including more aluminum from Wicks in the morning and by Thursday afternoon had them all cut out. On Friday I went out to my mechanic's hangar and did the bends on the cowling. What took me several tries and practices the first time, happened the second time with ease. Pierce was right, you get a lot better. We were in and out of there in 20 minutes.


July 17[SUP]th[/SUP]
After a crazy work week mid June, and my lingering back pain, I decided to take a leave of absence. I wanted to work on the plane more, but I also wanted to fix my back. Chronic back pain, while inevitable, seemed all too often at age 39. I did a smorgasbord of treatments, from drugs to acupuncture, and things are really looking up. I'm back at work today, with a little down time during a break to write an update.

A problem nagging me for a while was fixing one of my stabilizers that I though had a fully been repaired. When Farris was here, he pointed out that my tailbrace wires had previously been installed incorrectly. At some point previously, a mechanic had decided that he'd rather have AN4 bolts in the stabilizer instead of AN3. When he drilled the hole bigger, he also drilled the sleeve that keeps the trailing edge of the stab from collapsing. Luckily that never happened but I decided to fix it correctly. With the correct size tubing from Wicks, I was able to weld back in the sleeve and it is good as new now.

20130706_202745.jpgNew tube and welded insert.

Having the extra week off work allowed me to get caught up around the house but also get some light work done on the plane. Late June I was able to finish up the new boot cowl details like the strengthening members and fine tune the cuts. I decided not to rivit it to the firewall just yet as I wanted to have access to install the firewall items.

I then turned my attention to the firewall attachment points and ran into several stumbling blocks. 1[SUP]st[/SUP] problem being the cowl attach points that came with the plane, that I'd already painted, turned out to be not original. With no reference in the parts manual, I needed more info. With the help of SC members and Clyde Smith, I was able to figure what items I needed, or make.

DSC01079.jpgPractice fitting the old cowl.

Turns out I needed the two upper attachment point members, which were the same as a supercub. Those were easy to make and available digitally. I also needed one lower member. I had one good one that I used to make the other. Turns out the one of the aileron attachment brackets I was unable to reuse had enough good length, and the correct size, that I was able to copy my good bracket. Now that I have a Tig welder, I throw away no metal.

I then started to look at my cabin heat box. While this box is the universal one from several cub types, including a supercub, I decided it wasn't for me. Installed in the correct way, the cable had to be on the bottom and the hot air bypass was pointing right at the gascolater. The original box allows a cool air duct to attach to the same box and gives that extra option for summertime venting.

After that I attached the cowling brackets and then the old cowling to check the fit. It is good that I did that as several items did not fit per the new 71H standard. If I'd of copied the old ones, I'd of been unhappy. Even my top cowling, which I had hoped to use, had a ¼ inch gap on one side. Since the holes in it had already been drilled, it must have been there to begin with. Being such a compound shape, I probably can't make the top cowling or bottom cowling, but I'll sure give it a try.

All the control cables have now been run to the back. I had to grind move a rudder fairlead due to some rubbing issues, twice. But now I got it right, or so I think. I made some nice brake pedal tie rods out of welding rod and feel those came out real nice.

DSC01085.jpgDSC01086.jpg New fancy brake tie rods.

At the end of the build weeks, April and I went through and really cleaned up the garage and work area. Many missing parts started to appear. My next sets of weeks off I hope to work on the cowling and engine area but I'll really need the engine installed to do a lot of the finish work. I should have the engine ready in the next month or so. I'm also going to work on the nut plates for all the windows and skylight as well as fairing attachment points. I should have my control surfaces back from the blast/paint guy so I'll consider rigging those as well.
 

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When Farris was here, he pointed out that my tailbrace wires had previously been installed incorrectly. At some point previously, a mechanic had decided that he'd rather have AN4 bolts in the stabilizer instead of AN3. When he drilled the hole bigger, he also drilled the sleeve that keeps the trailing edge of the stab from collapsing. Luckily that never happened but I decided to fix it correctly. With the correct size tubing from Wicks, I was able to weld back in the sleeve and it is good as new now.

I'd like to point out why that mechanic may have decided to use AN-4 instead of AN-3 bolts. The holes in the tailbrace wire straps are 1/4". So he likely thought that the bolts should be 1/4" when there are supposed to be small bushings which allow the tailbrace wires to move while the stabilizer is moving. He was unaware that there should be bushings. Don't forget them when you put the plane together.
 
Chris, Pierce makes a bushing removal/ insert tool. I have one if you need to borrow it.John
 
He was unaware that there should be bushings. Don't forget them when you put the plane together.
I think it was because Farris didn't see the bushings on the old wires, that he knew to look for the problems. I'm just glad I hadn't painted it yet. Nice to have knowledgeable people helping, or at least pointing stuff out.

I already have pierce's bushing tool. If people are confused, we are now talking about the bushings at the hinges, not the brace wire ones.



Posted Using the Free SuperCub.Org Android App!
 
ImageUploadedByTapatalk1374153770.104203.jpg

You use the term help loosely I hope.


Looks like your moving right along. Keep it going!
 

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I think it was because Farris didn't see the bushings on the old wires, that he knew to look for the problems. I'm just glad I hadn't painted it yet. Nice to have knowledgeable people helping, or at least pointing stuff out.

I already have pierce's bushing tool. If people are confused, we are now talking about the bushings at the hinges, not the brace wire ones.



Posted Using the Free SuperCub.Org Android App!

Seeing the AN4 bolts on the hoizontal stab parts of the tailwires sitting on the shelf was the giveaway. Looking for those 4 little bushing was the first thing my A&P/IA taught me when came down with the illness of restoring Cubs.

Nesin, did you use the jig to make the brake pedal ties?
 
I want to know more about your brake pedal tie rods. Those looked nice. How did you form that?

I have made these with stainless steel welding rod, using pliers and a rod to form the loop around. A lot easier than it looked. I think I made three to get two good ones that same length! The originals had copper tube for the sleeve, which I squashed, but Chris' one looks really nice with the stainless tube.

I seem to remember I did the master cylinder end on the bench with the pedal removed and finished the front brake pedal one on-board.

Andrew.
 
I want to know more about your brake pedal tie rods. Those looked nice. How did you form that?
1/8" welding rod, 3/8 tubing. I used a jig Farris welded together. It's ugly, but works well. A pair of vise grips got it the rest of the way. As mentioned, take the brake pedal off.

i can make a set or two in barter for some paperwork.
 
This PA-11 parts manual is pissing me off. What bolt holds on the aft section of the tail fin where it bolts to the tail post? Regular an3 or round head an23 clevis bolt?
 
I looked for over a year for a reasonably priced C90-8f (without starter/alt) to come to the market. I wanted the more torque and the lighter weight engine without the large accessory case. I gave up and had started the process of a major overhaul. The Case went to Divco, I got a much nicer oil sump off ebay, all the metal parts except the crank went to Aircraft specialty service, and I was looking for an 0200 crank. I'd said it would be best this way I could say it still had a “85 horse” when people asked.

About a month ago, a C90-8f went for sale on barnstormers. I let it sit for a week. I festered on all the possibilities. I'd already spent 2 grand on the 85 already. Why bother with the 90? Then I figured what the hell. If I had to buy a new 0200 crank, STC, and cylinder assemblies, I'd have a bunch of money still left to put into this engine. I decided I had nothing to lose and sent them an email.

Jim Ivey down in El Paso, TX got back to me right away. He was very nice and sent me scanned copies of the logbook entries, tags, and the paperwork for the overhauled engine, and gave me some background. After getting a fresh overhaul, it had been sitting for a little under 5 years waiting to be mounted on a Luscombe 8A. Unfortunately a few years earlier, Jim's friend Leon had passed away so the Luscombe and C90 sat in limbo. He was able to buy the Luscombe from his widow but had to sell the engine.

Because it had been sitting or a while, Jim had taken a borescope video of each cylinder and they looked good as new. It appeared as though the dry climate of El Paso had been good to it. While there was some risk in buying an overhauled engine that sat for so long, it appeared the paperwork was in order and the engine was in good shape. I sent 2 lbs of Pistachios to Graham, TX and hired Steve Pierce to look over the paperwork. He gave it a thumbs up. I decided to offer them what money I was still going to have to put into the 85.

Jim had read Rinker's book, was a fan, and passed along my enthusiasm and my offer to the family. They decided to accept it and we went into the process of crating it. The transaction went smoothly and the crate arrived today without a scratch. I had to immediately go to an appointment and was unable to look at it right away. Jim, waiting for a good time to prank, had then sent me a picture of what he had wanted to send instead of the engine. I got back, opened up the crate, and found a real pretty Continental inside.

Final Crate.jpgCrate Loonies.jpgIMG952267.jpg
The crate crew of Jim, Dennis, and other sent nice detailed directions, and some pictures of the "crew" at KELP.

There are two carb cores that came with it. A Marvel and Stromberg. Leon had not yet gotten one overhauled so they are in pretty rough shape. I've been told I really want to use the Marvel, but the type certificate for both the engine and airframe says I must use a the Stromberg. I had a Stromberg on my 65 and it served me just fine. If I use the Marvel I'll have to get another field approval which are increasingly harder to do. I won't be paying for a carb overhaul anytime soon so we will have to wait.

20130731_122058.jpgOops.jpg20130731_175802.jpg
The crate coming home, the bucket of parts Jim jokingly alluded to, and the very nice C90.

Being that I was going to save for months to finish overhaul on the 85, I've spent many months of savings and some credit to get this engine. My project money has now gone to recoup mode. We probably won't see too much work being done in the next few months as a result.

The one thing I can afford to do is to put in the nut plates for the boot cowl, sky lights and fairings. If anyone has templates on how many screws to use and proper spacing, I'd appreciate the info.

As a side note, I have to give a shout out to freightquote.com and specifically, my assigned CS agent Joan Linville. I filled out a quote early in the process just to get an idea. When Joan called the next day, I was expecting push and harsh sales but they did not. They were super friendly and got me the class of shipment required for truck shipments. They helped me organize my shipment, and best of all, was several hundred dollars less than the freight companies direct pricing. You just had to make sure you just called it an engine, not airplane parts, which ship for expense.
 

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I know it has been a while but there actually has been some progress, just not much to show. I have shaped several more cowling pieces and some interior panels have been completed. I've also come a long way on the boot cowl, v2.2.

994944_644094605621825_1534978205_n.jpgApril bucking rivets



In the mean time I was forming the forward interior panel of the cub. The PA-11 has the same style metal panels as the Supercub does. How do other attach the front of this panel? I didn't think piper did it that well and was wondering if there where other ideas.

front-panel.jpg The green shows how the panel was previously bent at 90 degrees and then screwed into firewall. The red is a couple tabs I was considering welding to that small upright in order to hold screw into. Ideas?
 

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Seeing how well the Javron cub is coming, I'm probably leaning this way
P1000132.jpg.
 

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The flange on the panel stiffens it and screwing it to the firewall works fine in my experience. With it flat and attached to the tabs it may be free to go like Charlie Brown's lips between the tabs.

You can put slip on tinnermans on the flange and run the screws in from the front without the need for an assistant or run them through from behind and put nuts on.

I will be interested to hear what other guys do, but I've always just done standard Piper here.....

Andrew.
 
You could still bend the flange outward for strength, but attack it to the tabs like the javron setup...Besides, is anyone ever gonna climb in your cub and then stand on their head to get a look at the front of the panel? Likely nobody would ever know if the front of the panel was a little wavey
 
Just in: Chris and Tom's 71H "work" party this week in St. Louis has already been derailed by fish sandwiches at the Dorsett Inn. If you are unfamiliar with the establishment, it's worth a Google.

Nesin promises actual airplane work and updates, right after he catches the ice cream truck.
 
Just in: Chris and Tom's 71H "work" party this week in St. Louis has already been derailed by fish sandwiches at the Dorsett Inn. If you are unfamiliar with the establishment, it's worth a Google.

Nesin promises actual airplane work and updates, right after he catches the ice cream truck.

qy2y9yzu.jpg

Don't forget the flying part as well. We went to the airport to bend up some interior panels on a big brake. And stopped for lunch on the way back. What's the big deal
 
You could still bend the flange outward for strength, but attack it to the tabs like the javron setup...Besides, is anyone ever gonna climb in your cub and then stand on their head to get a look at the front of the panel? Likely nobody would ever know if the front of the panel was a little wavey

Don't forget to deburr and radius sand all your edges and corners. They all turn into a meat slicer when things go wrong and start getting twisted.

Glenn
 
You know Rinker and Kernan Buck Flew across the country in less time than you two bend metal. Time to get something done. Tell Nesin nothing is more wasteful than to waste Free Labor! Light a fire under that boys ass!!
 
yjyhesa2.jpg
ve5y3uqu.jpg

Look at all that work that got done today. We would have gotten more done if someone didn't take me to the airport, and somehow got talked into going flying in a carbon cub.
 
You are letting him paint the frame with an artists brush????? no wonder it is a work of art.
 
I'm no Cub expert, but here's what we did on our 11 Chris. We decided against the "coffin" look of a fully-paneled forward fuselage. Yeah, now that she has fabric on it you can see the beauty of nitrate dope, but we love the way she looks. My little mini me doesn't mind either.


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PS. You gonna be ready for this summer? I haven't called in sick to work for a looooong time saving up for a little excursion of the southwestern US Buck style.
 
Heck yeah I'm going to be ready for the summer. I too have been taking LOA to work on the cub instead of sick time. Come this summer, I'll be westbound.

I'd love to share some progess. I hope to get to it soon. I plan on making a very large Univair order nearly completing all the large ticket items. Well, except for the carb overhaul, more fabric, and paint.

SO.... Anyone have any pictures of a standard cub baggage compartment? The STC for supercub baggage calls for tiedowns and straps in each corner, part numbers 12036-03 and -02. I assume I need 2 straps and four anchors. No idea what they look like. This is what I'd really like to put this in each corner. https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/pspages/baggagetiedown.php?clickkey=60046
 
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