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Thread: Building a Javron Cub

  1. #841
    Tim's Avatar
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    Bill, what's with Mark, did he lose his computer ? He could at least check in once in a while, him and Wilber WTF

  2. #842

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    I went thru the 8amp alt program , used them for 8 years finally enough !! B&C 20 amp on my plane since 2008 never a issue of any kind
    I'll suffer the two lbs weight increase for reliability!! mikeo


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  3. #843
    Bill Rusk's Avatar
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    Good input Mikeo

    Jay Derosier of Javron will be in Soldotna, AK talking Cubs and his kits. There will be an open house and Javron weldments to look at Johns place from 1400 to 1700 (2 to 5) this Sunday Feb 16th. If you are interested in seeing what his kits look like and want a chance to talk to him in person this might be a good opportunity.

    Address is ....41477 Dolly Varden Way, Soldotna, AK

    Bill
    Very Blessed.

  4. #844
    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    Sorry for any thread creep Bill, this needs to be asked.

    Quote Originally Posted by mikeo View Post
    I went thru the 8amp alt program , used them for 8 years finally enough !! B&C 20 amp on my plane since 2008 never a issue of any kind
    I'll suffer the two lbs weight increase for reliability!! mikeo
    mikeo,
    Will you please explain what you mean about "reliability". Is it mechanical or electrical? My Kubota tractor has a small dynamo which looks just like the B&C 8 amp, only being belt driven. I have not had any trouble, of any kind, with it in over 25 years. I have been considering using one just like it, to make a wind driven generator for my Cub. They are relatively short money. That's not the main reason. There isn't anything small available for wind driven electricity generation.
    N1PA

  5. #845
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    Quote Originally Posted by skywagon8a View Post
    Sorry for any thread creep Bill, this needs to be asked.



    mikeo,
    Will you please explain what you mean about "reliability". Is it mechanical or electrical? My Kubota tractor has a small dynamo which looks just like the B&C 8 amp, only being belt driven. I have not had any trouble, of any kind, with it in over 25 years. I have been considering using one just like it, to make a wind driven generator for my Cub. They are relatively short money. That's not the main reason. There isn't anything small available for wind driven electricity generation.
    Pete,

    actually, there is a small wind generator....pricey, but: http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catego...ors_bpe14.html

    MTV

  6. #846
    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    I've seen that one Mike. It appears to be rather bulky and only puts out 6 amps.
    N1PA

  7. #847
    Bill Rusk's Avatar
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    Covering the fuselage.

    Headliner tapes....


    Rotisserie.....


    I just lay the back end on a saw horse....


    Bottom panel on.....



    I will post more "how to" stuff soon.

    Bill
    Very Blessed.

  8. #848
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    Yea now we're cookin ...peddle to metal nose to the grind stone get-r-done.

  9. #849
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    Ditto what DW said! Go Bill!!

  10. #850
    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    Bill,
    Don't forget to twist the fin to the left. It's a little easier before the fabric goes on.
    N1PA

  11. #851
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    SuperGreat to see you at this stage Bill!!

    A thought or three....

    1. headliner.....slack in the flap cable will allow the "Y" connection above/behind the rear passenger's head to wear and damage your headliner fabric. If you are a "gustlocker" (!), you may disregard this.

    EDIT:....http://www.supercub.org/forum/showthread.php?40889-Building-a-Javron-Cub/page20 .....about 3/4 down this page...post #785 proves what docstory stated below...."The flap cable will hang inside the cabin under the fabric headliner.

    2. my personal preference on extended baggage utilization is to have the front part open.......maybe you could put a zipper in the fabric cover between the forward end of the upper headliner and the rest of the cabin? then you can carry that long thing, whatever it is.

    3. I don't remember what you're doing for the upper baggage interior......but if you do not have an "inner liner" or inner walls, or inner fabric.....you WILL damage the exterior fabric from the inside out, some day.

    Cool.
    Last edited by Dave Calkins; 02-15-2014 at 07:18 PM.

  12. #852
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Calkins View Post
    1. headliner.....slack in the flap cable will allow the "Y" connection above/behind the rear passenger's head to wear and damage your headliner fabric.

    3. I don't remember what you're doing for the upper baggage interior......but if you do not have an "inner liner" or inner walls, or inner fabric.....you WILL damage the exterior fabric from the inside out, some day.
    1. The flap cable will hang inside the cabin, under the headliner.

    3. The upper baggage really does need a liner. Fabric is just as good an option as it is for the headliner.
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  13. #853
    Bill Rusk's Avatar
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    Thanks for the encouragement and comments.
    The upper baggage compartment (at least for me) is really for the soft bulky items like engine and wing covers in the winter, or possibly sleeping bags and pads in the summer. You are correct without inside walls the outer fabric is vulnerable so I will have to be careful.
    Dave - I like your door idea - there are so many cool little mods - basically I just ran out of energy ........


    This is an obligatory FAA ....yes....I really did build this airplane photo....


    I like to use half a clothespin to tuck the fabric up into the window channel. Note - you must clean the glue off of it after each use, otherwise the fabric will stick to it and after you tuck it into the channel it will just pull it right back out again. Works great if you keep it clean with acetone. Yes - I switched back to the Airtec glue. I don't care for the Stewarts glue. More on that later.





    Left side on.

    Many thanks to all the folks for suggestions - like Pete who reminded me to bend the rudder before cover...and Dave for checking that the longerons were bushed, and Steve for gromets on short notice, and, and, and,.........

    Hope this helps pay it forward

    Bill
    Very Blessed.

  14. #854

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    The bigger paper clips work great on that window channel

  15. #855
    flymore's Avatar
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    Looks really good Bill. Very happy to see your progress. Hopefully we can make some fly-ins in 2014. Keep up the good work and thanks for all the valuable information.

    David
    David Childs

    "Whether you think you can or whether you think you can't, you're right!"
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  16. #856
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    Nice progress Bill. Once the covering starts it seems like you're moving quicker. Do you spray in that same room?
    "Fast is fine, but accuracy is everything." Wyatt Earp

  17. #857
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    Hi Bill! Nice to see photos of your progress. You must be pleased to see what you have accomplished. I'm visualizing another snow skiing experience in our future! TT

  18. #858
    Bill Rusk's Avatar
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    Thanks gents (and ladies). Yes, TT perhaps in a (my) Supercub next time. Dan - yes. I had a modular paint booth but it has now been through the neighborhood, currently in the forth or fifth borrower. I suspect I will build up another booth, soon. I got in about 40 hours in the last few days. Wish I could do that more often, but it seems LIFE just gets in the way.


    Right side on. A little clean up and I am ready for tapes.




    Bill
    Very Blessed.

  19. #859
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    Fantastic Bill that's got to feel good!

  20. #860

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    Bill nice progress on your project!!
    The 8 amp alternator just didn't work for the type flying I do , lots of low power half flap cruising , started carrying a jump box battery , landing shutting down trying to hand prop a three bladed Catto prop was very exciting to say the least!!
    Went to the 20 amp B&C not a single issue since , plane power has a 30 amp gear drive same weight that with a regulator works as primary alt !!mikeo

  21. #861
    Olibuilt's Avatar
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    Hey Bill! What happen with the Stewart glue?? Why did you change.

    Nice looking progress.

  22. #862
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    Quote Originally Posted by skywagon8a View Post
    Bill,
    Don't forget to twist the fin to the left. It's a little easier before the fabric goes on.
    Why do you twist the fin? How much do you move it from center?

    Bryan
    Life is not measured by the number of breaths you take but by the times that take your breath away

  23. #863
    DW's Avatar
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    I've seen them anywhere from an inch to two on the fin twist.

  24. #864

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    Funny you should say that DW? I was always told 1.5" if you sight down the the top of the birdcage. Tango Cub, the twist in the fin is to counter act the P-factor: the effect that the propwash has on the tail.

  25. #865

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    Bill, Looks AWESOME!!! I would love to see your build in person.

    Did you not sew the left and right fabric sides together?

  26. #866
    Bill Rusk's Avatar
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    Mikeo - thanks for the info on the Alternators
    Kevin - No, the center seam is glued on one side to the center stringer. It is then lightly shrunk (this will curve the center stringer a little) to provide a smooth surface to glue the other side to with about a 1 inch overlap/seam. The other side is then shrunk carefully to pull the stringer straight, and then fully shrunk. Then a tape is placed over that. Seams(pardon the pun) to work fine and allows you to cover the fuselage with three pieces so you do not have the seam on the sides at the upper longeron, which are usually not straight and thus unsightly.


    FABRIC GLUE



    I mentioned in a previous post I would talk a little about my glue preference. As you know by now I have tried in this thread to provide some useful info, not simply....."hey... look ....I built an airplane".........I have given my opinions, reasons behind why I have done things, how specifically I have done things etc. I am not an expert and this thread would be SOOOO much better if it were done by guys like Caulkins, Pierce, Skupp, Skywagon8a, docstory, Jason, and a host of others, but it is what it is. Thus I have tried very hard to not get offended when someone more knowledgeable than I has offered a correction or rebuttal, because I want you to get the best info for your own education.
    I am going out on a limb a little and I'll give you my opinion on glue. This is just one persons opinion. It does not make it right. Some folks like blue some like green......

    Stewarts - I like the strength, cost, minimal glue line ridges (probably due in part to the wiping off excess), odor free, etc......

    I don't like - ironing the fabric on, can't be dissolved, thus throw away brushes, can't stop in the middle and answer the phone - because it can't be dissolved or re-softened, it is messy wiping that stuff off, and you have to lift the tape, glue under/over, lift the tape again, glue under/over, etc. Way too much handling of the tapes. I can't seem to get the tapes perfectly straight while trying to lift them and put glue under them then trying to lower the tape into a wet bed of glue. And doing that several times for any tape over about 10 inches long. You can make them look pretty darn good but I feel I (personally) can do better with Airtech.
    I like using a quality paint brush. It makes a HUGE difference. With Stewarts - no solvent for the glue - you can't clean the brushes so you have to throw them out. It would be really expensive to use quality brushes. AirTech glue is acetone based so you can clean your brush and reuse it.

    Here is a little video of me doing a demo of how I use the Airtech glue......In a nutshell you can tac weld the tape in position then glue it down. No lifting, no wiping, no trying to lay it in a wet bed of glue (that has "no wet adhesion")........




    If you are certified you can not legally mix systems.


    I do not yet know what type of compatibility issues there may be. I will cross that bridge when I get there, but I do not anticipate any problems.

    OK folks.....flame suit on....

    Hope this helps

    Bill
    Very Blessed.

  27. #867

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    Good job! Looks like you're trying to get the "Best Post" award.

    So, it's Stewart's fabric with Air-Tech glue?

  28. #868

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    that was great Bill, thanks for the thoughts!

  29. #869
    Olibuilt's Avatar
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    It was my first fabric job. I use stewart glue. But you sure make the process look more easier with the air-tech glue and your technic.
    Next job will be with air-tech maybe.

  30. #870
    DW's Avatar
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    Great video Bill....your multi talented

  31. #871
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    Very nice Bill I like to see how people do things. Keep it up.
    Larry Experimental Supercub PA18 wide body
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  32. #872
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    Great video Bill, and thanks for the great tip!

  33. #873
    Bill Rusk's Avatar
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    TAPES


    Mark and Cal came over on Saturday and man does it go faster with help. Mark is super precise so I had him drawing the lines and Cal is a painter by trade so guess who was laying down the glue? Great team! Buck came by and we finished out the evening. Thanks Gents!!

    We did not get it all done but made huge progress.


    Mark and Cal going after it.


    I bend a piece of aluminum for a guide........


    Then use that to mark the long corner tape lines.....


    And here are some tape photos. There are lots of different techniques here regarding where you should tape and how but it is pretty much all just technique. Some folks like to tape everything, some like to go minimal tapes. You do what works for you. I am not done yet, so don't take these photos as gospel. Still need to reinforce the gear and float fitting area, tape the lower longerons, and the rudder. I have about 70 hours in the fuselage covering so far. Figure about another 15 hours. I'm slow, but much happier. I like covering again.
















    Hope this helps

    Bill

    Very Blessed.

  34. #874
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    Wow Bill! I wish I'd have known about all those fabric tips when Flip got covered. Yours is in a whole nother league! Great craftsmanship!! This thread is just so chock full of scoop that is going to make a lot of Cub builds down the road so much better, without all the trial & error. Thanks for sharing!
    windy

  35. #875
    Bugs66's Avatar
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    Very interesting Bill! I did dollar patches on my control surfaces and the AirTech glue sure would have eliminated a lot of frustration for those moving around on me!

  36. #876
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    That's some nice work, Bill. How well do the pinked edges lie down with the Airtec glue as compared to the Stewarts - I see you used some Stewarts green too - - - If the lie-down is comparable, would you please let us know how the sanding compares?

    Edit: Can you iron down the edges with Airtec like is done with Stewarts?

    Thanks for the effort you've put into all of your posts.
    Last edited by Gordon Misch; 02-24-2014 at 02:19 AM.
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  37. #877
    Bill Rusk's Avatar
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    Jasperfield - Yes. Stewarts fabric, Airtech glue and Stewarts primer and paint.

    Gordon - Yes, you can iron down the tape edges very nicely. The glue is not really heat activated like Stewarts but it softens very nicely under the iron and the edge lays smoothly in the glue. You can really soften the edges with a little heat and pressure from the iron, much more so than with the Stewarts. The Airtech glue will show a little under the paint so you can't just slop glue everywhere. I have been told that as long as you are careful to properly wipe all the excess glue the Stewarts glue does not show under the paint, so that would be an advantage to the Stewarts glue. I covered all my tail surfaces using the Stewarts glue so it will be interesting to see the differences when I primer and paint.

    Christian - Doing the tapes on the inside corners of my headliner was pretty challenging (and frustrating) as the tapes would move around while trying to wipe the excess glue off. Drove me nuts.

    Hope this helps

    Bill
    Very Blessed.

  38. #878
    windy's Avatar
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    Bill, what do you mean that the Airtech glue shows under the paint? Does it leave a ridge? Wouldn't the tape & pinked edges cover any glue lines & heat/pressure from the iron to smooth the edges out? It would seem (seam) the Stewarts glue would be more likely to show, since it's not heat activated? Thanks for the clarification!

    windy

  39. #879
    Lowrider
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    Bill,

    Very nicely done as always!! I'm guessing the smell of the acetone/glue is not too bad inside the work shop using the Airtech glue? I've been trying to get away from acetone and wearing gloves when I do use it but the Airtech sure looks easier and more precise than Stewarts. Does the Airtech glue smell bad also? I was sold on Stewarts until I saw your video, now I'm reconsidering at least for the tape.

    Thanks for sharing!!
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  40. #880

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    Bill, I hope you are taking this plane to Oshkosh for judging.

    Watching your tapes is another reason why I was experimental. I will most likely go with the trusty and true Poly Fiber but I sure like how you have your tapes applied. It will be interesting to see how the paints react with the different glues.

    It is kind of hard to see but how did you tape around things with tubes sticking out like the lift handle and the tubes coming out of the fabric in front of the tail post? Is that one piece of fabric or tow pieces split in half?

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