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Thread: Scott 3200 Taiwheel refurbishment

  1. #1
    Binty's Avatar
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    Scott 3200 Taiwheel refurbishment

    We have stripped down my tail wheel and have discovered the bronze(?) thrust washer which mounts the three small compression springs has had the 'lugs' sheared off. Also the dowel pin looks to be worn down flush with the casting. I am guessing thats why it has always been fully castering?!

    What I need to know is how worn is too worn? (dowel), and how to best get the dowel out if it does in fact need replacing?

    The parts diagram shows 5 internal springs but I only have 3...?
    Last edited by Binty; 09-06-2011 at 02:46 AM.

  2. #2
    aktango58's Avatar
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    Send email to WUP at Alaskan Bushwheels....

    Three springs for a cub is correct. Dowel pin can be tapped out with punch, it goes through the entire casting I think. AK Bushwheels makes the parts.
    I don't know where you've been me lad, but I see you won first Prize!

  3. #3
    cpthazard's Avatar
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    Every tailwheel I've ever taken apart has had five springs, last week I took one of AK Bushwheel's Tailwheel apart and there were only 3 springs but still 5 holes, some of the early models had only 3 holes and 3 springs. The Brass plate you talk about needs the pins, when they break off is when shimmy happens. It amazes me how many shops and mechanics out there haven't got a clue how to service a tailwheel, just pumping grease into them isn't proper servicing. Take them apart and wash the dirt out of the inner workings and replace worn parts and you'll be amazed at how much better your ground handling is. Of course Alaska Bushwheel is the de-facto source for parts these days for every model Scott that was ever made, and I might add their quality is a hell of a lot higher than the original Scotts too. The Dowel Pin bottoms out at about a quarter inch, drill a small hole in it and use an easy out, with a little pull and reverse twist they will usually come out. I've not tried to remove the new style dowl, they look like a roll pin instead of a dowel pin. The heigth of the dowel pin shouldn't be more than the thickness of a new thrust washer, large brass or bronze rings 2ea. if you replace it and it's higher than that it will rub the steering arm. (actually I'm thinking of the time I made one by cutting a 3/16th bolt down to size and used it for a pin because I thought the price quoted for a little pin was excessive). One more plug for the BW guys, the tailwheel attach bolt with the integral tie down ring gets my vote for "best improvement product" of the year, maybe its just me but I hate getting grease on my hands and grease on my ropes. And Binty if you run into my Wife's friend Cathy Penny, give her a howdy from Salt Lake. She works Helicopters for the NZ FAA or whatever the controling agency for aviation is there. good luck with your tailwheel
    Dennis
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  4. #4
    dalec's Avatar
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    This diagram might help, simple to overhaul.

    Alaska Bushwheels sells the kit.


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  5. #5
    Bill Ingerson's Avatar
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    Well, just so happens that I spent most of the day working with my tail wheel. always been a mystery to me. I ordered all the parts from BushWheels, great parts and people to work with. Price, well whats not expensive these days. Really not that bad, because you need to rebuild the wheel yourself and learn how to take care of it. The grease fitting on them don't do much good. You need to take the wheel all apart.
    The pin is hard to get out, They told me to drill a small hole about 3/16 from the bottom up and hit the pin then you can take a small punch and drive it out from then on. All there new ones are that way now.
    Dennis is right about the pin just sticking up no higher than the first thrust washer. Both my scott tail wheels had only three springs and dowels for the PA-18
    Also order the better grease retaining seals, all three. BushWheel will offer all the help you need and send you a good exploded picture of the tail wheel parts. There is also a small part in there called a paul, I think thats how its spelled, Hard to describe, but one side of it is longer than the other side of the pin. I believe the longer side is pointing down, I hope someone else chimes in and describes this better than me, but this is very important to get right. The tail wheel should be taken apart every year cleaned and greased, more often if your in the water and sand alot. Hope this helps

    Bill

  6. #6
    Binty's Avatar
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    Cheers guys. I watched Steve Prices video so I see how it can easily be torn down and assembled. The only thing missing from the very informative clip was how to get that dowel pin out and just how much wear was too much. Thanks to you fellas, I now know. I will certainly be replacing the broken bits and getting some of those seals.

    Darlec, I happen to know Cathy Penny- She did a part of my commercial theory class many moons ago. Small world!
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  7. #7
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    Drill a small hole in the pin and then screw a small screw extractor (easy out) into the hole and twist and pull. Alaskan Bushwheel has a hole through the casting in theirs so you can knock the pin out with a small punch. That pin just keeps the brass washer from spinning. Shouldn't have anything to do with being free castering. I would look at the pawl and the compression spring 3222-00. 3 springs vs 5 springs is a matter of preference. I like 3 on a Cub myself.
    Steve Pierce

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  8. #8
    cpthazard's Avatar
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    How could I have forgotten the new grease seals, since using them the need to address dirt in the wheel bearings has nearly become a non event, actually in my mind they rank higher than the tiedown attach bolt, the impetus here being that Alaska Bushwheel has seen a need and has responded with replacement parts and complete units that are vastly superior to the original tailwheel equipment our airplanes came fitted with. The main part of the tailwheel though will fill with grit and an occasional thorough cleaning is necessary.

    Binty, Aviation is a small world, next time she visits I'll tell her howdy for you! Maybe give her a sack of used tailwheel parts to bring back to you.

    Dennis
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  9. #9

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    I took my Scott 3200 tailwheel off and cleaned it. What does the Dowel pin do? Mine was worn flush with the caseing. I read in one article that you were not supposed to get any grease on the Thrushed washer and everywhere else they say to use plenty of grease.??? Also I have read several places that the verticle shaft should be verticle or some rearward tilt. Was this supposed to be the bottom is rear of the top of the shaft or is it the other way around.

    Yale

  10. #10
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    I grease everything. The pin keeps the brass washer from rotating. Go to www.pierceaero.net and look at the tailwheel article for a.discription and picture of the proper caster of the pivot bolt.
    Steve Pierce

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  11. #11

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    I go for minimum grease on the assembly being discussed, but grease the wheel bearings often.

    You guys are confusing me - are you talking about the dowels that hold the little coil springs or the one that pins the vee shaped spring in position? All of the Cub tailwheels I have pulled apart have only three coil springs.

    Shimmy is caused by loose parts, but it can also be caused by angle of the dangle and over lubrication.

    All opinion.
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  12. #12
    crazyivan's Avatar
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    A friend of mine had a free castering Scott 3200 as you described above. We took his Scott 3200 apart, ordered all the parts that looked questionable from Aircraft Spruce, and reassembled. Not too hard to do with a good diagram. He was amazed how easy the plane would taxi, takeoff, and land in a crosswind after it was refurbished.

    PS It will also shimmy if you don't pay attention to the tailwheel tire pressure and it gets really low...ask me how I know.

  13. #13
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    Bob, It is the pin that is pushed into the fork itself. Item 38 in this diagram.
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    Steve Pierce

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  14. #14

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    Thanks Steve - I re-read the first post, and he called the other things "lugs". I seem to recall that the dowel comes out rather easily with pressure, but I think I had to invent a small tool.
    I did not get involved in the process, but one of the Cub guys here had new parts that were not working well. I was going to come by and inspect it when he had it apart, but he said he bent the spring outward with a screwdriver and reassembled, and now the thing works perfectly. I was only gone for a half-hour. It takes me that long to unbolt a tailwheel, let alone disassemble, mess with, reassemble, and reattach.

  15. #15
    texmex's Avatar
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    Might be the stupidest question of the day, but I'll ask anyway.
    What were the tailwheels springs originally coated with? Is it anything else than a satin black? Looking recently I was wondering if it was some sort of etching.

    Hi Binty...
    Texmex.

  16. #16

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    Smile Whew!

    Three evenings ago, I watched Steve's tailwheel videos (at least twice). And then briming with this new found knowledge I tore into my Scott 3200. Guys, it went great right up to the moment I discovered that the dowl was worn down flush. Ahh Man, I felt my confidence drain away from me like an outgoing Cook Inlet tide. I came in from the shop.....watched the videos again. Visions of all the EZouts that I personally have snapped off through out the years.... came back to me like ghosts of Christmas past.....accompanied by those horrid high pitched "Tweenk" sounds. I dont want to screw this up. For the past few days the 3200 lay in pieces on the work bench just waiting for someone more talented than I. What a pleasant and timely surprise Binty when I saw your post tonight and thanks once again Steve for clearing the air. A few moments later I was back in the shop....thinking these other guys are doing this.....I too can do this ....I think.

    Well, I did it with a 7/64th bit and an EZout....and it worked ! Thanks to all of you !! Steve Pierce, Please keep those videos coming !!

    This is truly a GREAT Site !

    Rod

  17. #17
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    Texmex, As far as I know they were just painted black.

    Rod, Glad it helped.
    Steve Pierce

    Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects.
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  18. #18
    cruiser's Avatar
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    Is the pin shown as #38 on that drawing the AKBW split pin or the original Scott solid pin? I need the original solid pin, have ordered #38 from Spruce, pn06-00749 which I suspect is the split pin for the Bushwheel t/w. I cannot seem to see the solid pin in the blowup for the original Scott t/w on the Spruce web site. Does anyone know the correct part number for the solid pin? Thanks, Jim

  19. #19
    hottshot's Avatar
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    THe only split pin is in the 3400B TW and the rest get the ABI 232-046 solid pin.

  20. #20
    cruiser's Avatar
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    Great, thanks Wup. Jim

  21. #21
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    Jim, #38 is the pin that fits into the fork to keep the thrust washer from rotating. I have not seen a split pin. ABI has a hole in their fork to drive this pin out. 3226 is the part number for the original solid Scott pin. You got my interest up so I called Nicole at Alaska Bushwheel and she told me the split pin 236-088 is in the 3400 tailwheel.
    Steve Pierce

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  22. #22
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    I guess I talked to Nicole too long and Wup answered the question.
    Steve Pierce

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  23. #23
    cruiser's Avatar
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    Steve, Wup is quick. That's the pin I need. Did not realize I had a problem until I started a little preventive maintenance. Wup and Steve thanks for the reply. Jim
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  24. #24
    texmex's Avatar
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    Moving slightly forward now to the tailwheel spring.

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    I've always looked at my tailwheel spring and thought that can't be right. The bottom spring really is only acting as a spacer to the fuselage attach points. The force from the tailwheel is upwards and therefore only the top two springs are absorbing the forces. Is this correct??

    Rod, great post. O that feeling when your "confidence drains away".
    Last edited by texmex; 09-18-2011 at 03:54 PM.

  25. #25
    cruiser's Avatar
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    Maybe it would work better with that leaf on the top. Just sayin'. Jim

  26. #26
    texmex's Avatar
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    That would be my guess too. When I had it apart last time I tried that but it didn't fit. A while ago now, but I think it was the different radius curves on each leaf which would possibly come about by the bottom one not being used.

  27. #27
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    Yea, should be on top.
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    Steve Pierce

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  28. #28
    texmex's Avatar
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    Thanks Steve, I think there's an old post somewhere about heat treating and putting the spring back into your spring!

  29. #29
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    It can be cold bent but better left to a spring shop. I have been using the Alaska Bushwheel tail springs. They have the proper arch to eliminate tailwheel shimmy and are made from a good German spring steel with the correct temper to hold that arch.
    Steve Pierce

    Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects.
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  30. #30
    Binty's Avatar
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    "good German spring steel"... I bet the Germans buy it from Auzzie.. every one else seems to! The bottomless pit.

  31. #31
    texmex's Avatar
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    That's all there is out there. Red dirt and Kangaroos. I'm guessing there's not too many iron ore mines in Germany, but they sure know what to do with it when it's dug up.

  32. #32
    RaisedByWolves's Avatar
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    I saw someone say something about correct tire pressure, what is correct for a stock tire on a scott 3200

    Tom

  33. #33
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    I use 45 psi.
    Steve Pierce

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  34. #34
    hottshot's Avatar
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    Yep they leave here with 45psi, now it is up to the "Aircraft manufacture" to set the pressure to THEIR spec.... but norm is 40/50psi

  35. #35

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    Steve, on my tailwheel Scott 3200, it breaks right to full castering but not the left?

  36. #36
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    Probably a problem with the Pawl 3219 not pushing the Spring 3222 out of the groove in the steering arm.

    Steve Pierce

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  37. #37
    Stew's Avatar
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    Last post on this thread was some time ago but I found it very useful as I have just stripped down a Scott 3200 tailwheel that was fitted to a Jodel D140. The reason I got involved is because the tailwheel was free castoring and as my SuperCub is being rebuilt, I lent my Scott 3200 to the owner whilst we had a look at his.
    We stripped it down and it was a bit of a mess. The dowel that stops the bottom bush rotating was flush and there was no pin holding the butterfly spring, furthermore, the hole where the pin should be was somewhat oval.
    Getting a new pin would not solve the problem so we went down to the machine shop and the guy sorted out the problem.
    Firstly he drilled under the dowel keeping the bush in place and punched it out and fitted a new stainless one.
    He then drilled out the oval hole and made up a new pin that was stepped, the wider part matching the new oversize drilling. The original 3/16" hole was retained in the section between the gap and the centre bushwhich means that the butterfly spring and shims do not have to be drilled oversize. To make assembly/stripping easier, he tapped a thread in the new pin so that a 3mm screw could be attached so that it was easy to get in/out.
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    Have ordered a new pair of bushes, dust seals and butterfly spring so it should be back in action soon.
    Final thought is, how much grease is needed. It would appear sensible that it should be re-assembled with a smear of grease on the relevant components but pumping it full would seem unnecessary. The whole assembly functions well dry and would only seem to need a hint of lubrication. Is it packed with grease to keep the water/dirt out?
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    Last edited by Stew; 11-01-2014 at 02:34 PM.

  38. #38
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    I brush grease on everything at assembly and do not pump any grease through it afterwards. I tear the ones that get used apart at every annual inspection.
    Steve Pierce

    Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects.
    Will Rogers

  39. #39
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    Pawl

  40. #40
    SteveE's Avatar
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    I just rebuilt mine and after watching a very young skinny Pierce on his you tube videos, it was a piece of cake. Had to replace the main brass bushing, the dowel, had to drill a hole and punch it out from bottom, new springs, and all new thrust bearings. The one with the 3 pegs was real loose, so it was changed too. Pawl was ok, bearing was showing corrosion, changes it and new seals all around. The video showing what to look for was very helpful.


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