madras tips
- Thread starter L16abe
- Start date
Jerry Burr
MEMBER
Sedro Woolley, Washington.
How about you guys go fly a Cessna. Jerry B.
wow didn't mean to start a fight ,i have vg's for cub not on yet but i have heard those wing tips work well on the white hawk (JERRYS) plane i'm looking for stol with my 90 cub looks are not the first thing that concerns me or is there any other type that works as well this is all new to me looking for the pro's and cons let me know thanks
Dave Calkins
Registered User
Anchorage, Alaska
..... ...................................
Rob
MEMBER
AZ06
Not quite what I expected, but was sure we'd hear something :lol:
I dunno... seem to work pretty good on this one ;-)
I had a set on my '18 a few years back. Removed them at recover and went to Dakotas. A bunch lighter and no droop to block your vision. You might pose the question to Jerry as to how they would work on a J3?
Thread creep here for a minute.... anyone notice the difference in approach angle compared to the current crop of 'contestants' ? Boy howdy do I love things that droop the whole trailing edge 8)
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mvivion
SPONSOR
Bozeman,MT
Jerry's airplane exhibits pretty remarkable performance no doubt. I noticed, however, that the tips are the only mod on it....:lol:
I should have clarified my comments earlier:
1) I flew a Super Cub with those tips for several years, working it, generally looking at things on the ground. I grew to really dislike those tips and the extended wings because the combination (mostly related to the extended wings but stock ailerons) really reduced aileron effectiveness AND, I was always trying to look AROUND those tips. I was VERY happy when the airplane went in for cover and the powers that be decided to go back to stock wings.
2) I personally don't like the looks of droop tips on a Cub. THAT is a VERY personal view, however, and we all know about opinions, right? :lol:
Jerry's airplane proves that the right combination of mods can be really impressive. The Super Cub I mentioned earlier performed as well with stock wings as it did with the droop tips, AND I had better roll control.
MTV
I should have clarified my comments earlier:
1) I flew a Super Cub with those tips for several years, working it, generally looking at things on the ground. I grew to really dislike those tips and the extended wings because the combination (mostly related to the extended wings but stock ailerons) really reduced aileron effectiveness AND, I was always trying to look AROUND those tips. I was VERY happy when the airplane went in for cover and the powers that be decided to go back to stock wings.
2) I personally don't like the looks of droop tips on a Cub. THAT is a VERY personal view, however, and we all know about opinions, right? :lol:
Jerry's airplane proves that the right combination of mods can be really impressive. The Super Cub I mentioned earlier performed as well with stock wings as it did with the droop tips, AND I had better roll control.
MTV
bob turner
Registered User
Jerry's airplane is also very, very light. Weight makes a significant difference.
I am with MTV - I have tried a lot of mods, and genuinely like the way a stock airplane flies. We have airplanes that weigh 727# with 85 HP, and 1250# with 180 HP and Borer. Guess which one does better in takeoff and landing distance?
As to opinions - I have buddies who like all the heavy stuff - cables, blimp tires, the works. They operate almost 100% in places where such things are liabilities, but it makes them happy, and that, after all, is what counts. You want huge waterslides on your wingtips, go for it! You will be happy.
I am with MTV - I have tried a lot of mods, and genuinely like the way a stock airplane flies. We have airplanes that weigh 727# with 85 HP, and 1250# with 180 HP and Borer. Guess which one does better in takeoff and landing distance?
As to opinions - I have buddies who like all the heavy stuff - cables, blimp tires, the works. They operate almost 100% in places where such things are liabilities, but it makes them happy, and that, after all, is what counts. You want huge waterslides on your wingtips, go for it! You will be happy.
Rob
MEMBER
AZ06
Now that's funny :lol:
Hey Bob, did you decide to join the ranks of the alaskans and land on the beach yesterday ?
http://www.supercub.org/forum/showthread.php?40115-Beach-Landing-in-So.-Cal
bob turner
Registered User
Not me, but sometimes authorities can be reasonable. I remember stopping in Sierra Blanca Tx for gas some years ago - and a Texas Ranger showed up. I figured I would be in jail forever, since I kinda looked like a hippie, but all he wanted to do was look at my Cub. In California it is, I believe, against state law to land anywhere that is not a designated aerodrome, and that includes water landings.
Scooter7779h
PATRON
Anchorage, Alaska
My -12 had Madras tips on it when I bought it in 78, and still does. I have Micro VGs and it flies great, slow, and will really not spin. If you look at my photos, the paint design makes them look great. My plane is in an insert in this months SC.org calendar, but here is a better shot of it with the tips. To each his own, but my -12 has more alerion authority than any -12 I have flown. Stall speed is about 35, GPS. If it didn't have them on would I put them on, I don't know, probably not. Do I think they are so terrible I rant that I would take them off, for sure not... but opinions are like you know what, everyone has them.
flylowslow
Registered User
STL
bob turner
Registered User
I thought you had to have Edos to be pure. Nice looking Cub! Wish I had a lake!
thanks for the info buddy !! maybe i'm on the wrong page, your send a pix of a cub that is stock, i already have that, don't (jack the thread) i'm looking for info on tips, not a pix of you with stock tips??? and no info!!!! thanks you been a big help.
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hay scooter have you flown a 12 with stock tips to compare? slowflight, stall, etc. i know no 2 planes are the exact same but close, let me know thanksMy -12 had Madras tips on it when I bought it in 78, and still does. I have Micro VGs and it flies great, slow, and will really not spin. If you look at my photos, the paint design makes them look great. My plane is in an insert in this months SC.org calendar, but here is a better shot of it with the tips. To each his own, but my -12 has more alerion authority than any -12 I have flown. Stall speed is about 35, GPS. If it didn't have them on would I put them on, I don't know, probably not. Do I think they are so terrible I rant that I would take them off, for sure not... but opinions are like you know what, everyone has them.
Steve Pierce
BENEFACTOR
Graham, TX
There are a lot of Short Wing Pipers with the Stewart tips. I have installed them but not flown them. It only makes sense that it should fly slower because of the added wing area. You might ask on www.shortwingpipers.org
aktango58
FRIEND
18AA
They look like edo's...
L16, you may be the exception, as Jerry is with his bird, but few people really need the little bit of lift that the tips will give you. I had a set on a Pacer years ago and the visibility does suck, flying in a slip all the time or rolling everywhere to see.
If you are building a special purpose bird to compete with the little white one, then you might have it, but if you can, maybe find a lighter version...
you say it a little bit of lift, so is it not much different then stock? have you flown with them on? the stewarts don't apper to be as blind as the madras? i like the fact of the slower stall maybe there better for a shorter wing like the pacer? this is what i'm trying to find out .
aktango58
FRIEND
18AA
My first cub had square tips, Hendrickson (sp?) I think. It stalled with a dramatic break, and you could not fly it down close to stall on approach, because if you did and it stalled, you were a statistic.
My current plane with round tips has a slight burble at stall, so I can fly it right down to the burble and add 25 rpms and continue, no nose down break, so it is not the risk of life and limb...
The square wings with more area gave more lift, but the round tips allowed me to use the lift I had to a better advantage, and once down I can kill my lift and get on my breaks better for a shorter stop... I actually fly this plane slower on approach...
That said, I do have vg's and thrustline on this bird now. It is set up the way I want it, and I like it. I never got to fly a plane with, then without tips to check, but my friends did some testing, including putting one Madras tip up, and the other side down, and could not detect a single change.
Were I building a plane to win Valdez, and nothing else, I might have the tips on, or put a big piece of plate out there sticking up 2" and down six inches to stop the flow around the tip...
for practical use, I would bet that most of us could not measure the difference in performance between the droop tips and other square wing tips.
But round wings shed brush better!
And they look a whole lot better to purists
(back to my hole)
My current plane with round tips has a slight burble at stall, so I can fly it right down to the burble and add 25 rpms and continue, no nose down break, so it is not the risk of life and limb...
The square wings with more area gave more lift, but the round tips allowed me to use the lift I had to a better advantage, and once down I can kill my lift and get on my breaks better for a shorter stop... I actually fly this plane slower on approach...
That said, I do have vg's and thrustline on this bird now. It is set up the way I want it, and I like it. I never got to fly a plane with, then without tips to check, but my friends did some testing, including putting one Madras tip up, and the other side down, and could not detect a single change.
Were I building a plane to win Valdez, and nothing else, I might have the tips on, or put a big piece of plate out there sticking up 2" and down six inches to stop the flow around the tip...
for practical use, I would bet that most of us could not measure the difference in performance between the droop tips and other square wing tips.
But round wings shed brush better!
And they look a whole lot better to purists
(back to my hole)
dalec
GONE WEST
Anchorage and beyond
My 1956 A model has squre tips, it had Maule Droop tips on it when I bought it.The wing was very stable right down to the point where it quit flying. When it quit flying it was right now, with little to know warning. I eventually learned to pay attention to the elevator flutter (almost like a very subtle stick shaker) I was getting from the air being disturbed accrosss the tail. The droop tips to some extent masked the stal until it was at the break and when it broke it was done flying and just dropped. I also didn't like the reduced visibility around brush and rocks and other airplanes, so this winter I replaced them with Dakota Cub tips. The Dakota cub tips have two things about them that I like better than the droop tips. I am not saying they are better performing because I can't document that. I can tell you that they don't mask the onset of a stall the way the droop tips did and I really like the increased visibility.
mvivion
SPONSOR
Bozeman,MT
l16abe,
At one point the folks at Aviat were experimenting with different wing tips for the Husky. Granted, this is a different airplane, but.....similar speed range and airfoil.
All Huskys originally came with droop tips, though not as significantly drooped as the Madras tips. They experimented with a Hoerner style tip, which is now available. At one point as an experiment on their prototype, they installed one droop tip on one wing and a Hoerner style tip on the other. The test pilot at the time told me he couldn't detect any lift differences, which would have been apparent manifested by a roll. He flew it at all kinds of AOA.
I doubt that the droop tips ALONE will make much difference in STALL SPEED. But, on a Cub, you have to square off the wing to accept the tips, so you'll gain a LITTLE wing area, which MAY decrease the stall speed a little bit. Note that the Husky has squared off wings in all cases.
MTV
At one point the folks at Aviat were experimenting with different wing tips for the Husky. Granted, this is a different airplane, but.....similar speed range and airfoil.
All Huskys originally came with droop tips, though not as significantly drooped as the Madras tips. They experimented with a Hoerner style tip, which is now available. At one point as an experiment on their prototype, they installed one droop tip on one wing and a Hoerner style tip on the other. The test pilot at the time told me he couldn't detect any lift differences, which would have been apparent manifested by a roll. He flew it at all kinds of AOA.
I doubt that the droop tips ALONE will make much difference in STALL SPEED. But, on a Cub, you have to square off the wing to accept the tips, so you'll gain a LITTLE wing area, which MAY decrease the stall speed a little bit. Note that the Husky has squared off wings in all cases.
MTV
Dave Calkins
Registered User
Anchorage, Alaska
1. trying different tips on each wing is a waste of testing time. It is an in-valid test. (we can argue this later, if any one cares to)
2. when cubs get rebuilt, it is not often that an apples to apples comparison of before and after is possible.
3. L16abe asked about finding some wing tips....maybe he already has his wings extended and owns some other brand of tip.....maybe he's just "thinking out loud".........nobody bothered to ask him.
He's only posted 12 times since joining in 2006, hope he didn't scare off.
DAVE
2. when cubs get rebuilt, it is not often that an apples to apples comparison of before and after is possible.
3. L16abe asked about finding some wing tips....maybe he already has his wings extended and owns some other brand of tip.....maybe he's just "thinking out loud".........nobody bothered to ask him.
He's only posted 12 times since joining in 2006, hope he didn't scare off.
DAVE
bob turner
Registered User
I don't think he scared off. He has a valid question, and there sure are enough answers to enable him to make an intelligent choice.
My personal choice would be driven by appearance, but for most that is not a valid approach. I like Mark's analysis, since I have noticed that stock Cubs, including those with VGs of both types and the Thrustline mod, seem to behave exactly as he says when flown at stall under power. I would hesitate to do such approaches with a wing that was seriously modified, and now I stand alerted to possible problems with the tips. I have had a modified wing lose aileron control at flying speeds, and it is disconcerting.
My personal choice would be driven by appearance, but for most that is not a valid approach. I like Mark's analysis, since I have noticed that stock Cubs, including those with VGs of both types and the Thrustline mod, seem to behave exactly as he says when flown at stall under power. I would hesitate to do such approaches with a wing that was seriously modified, and now I stand alerted to possible problems with the tips. I have had a modified wing lose aileron control at flying speeds, and it is disconcerting.
