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Thread: STC for baggage box on PA18

  1. #1
    hiflyer's Avatar
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    STC for baggage box on PA18

    Hi, looking for info on how to put in a baggage box behind the back seat that extends into the fuselage under the battery. I have seen them, but not sure if it is legal and would like an STC if it is available..........Fred
    Last edited by hiflyer; 04-02-2011 at 09:22 AM.

  2. #2
    dalec's Avatar
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    http://www.fadodge.com/

    They have them

  3. #3
    hiflyer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dalec View Post
    Thanks a bunch, saved me using up a lot of time trying to sort out the variables. Looks like it is exactly what I need.......Fred

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    Beach Bum's Avatar
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    Check cub crafters too. It's bigger

  5. #5
    T.J.'s Avatar
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    CC requires fabric removal, welding, 16 hours install time. Load limit 20#. $795
    Dodge, no fabric removal, no welding. Approx. 4 hours install time. Load limit 20#. $545
    Last edited by T.J.; 04-03-2011 at 09:31 PM. Reason: add info.

  6. #6
    www.SkupTech.com mike mcs repair's Avatar
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    and now with belly pods being easy and legal, extended baggages are not so much needed as they were.......

  7. #7
    hiflyer's Avatar
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    Thanks for the options. Likely I will go with Dodge as I need more space for fishing rods, life jackets etc.......Fred

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    Beach Bum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by T.J. View Post
    CC requires fabric removal, welding, 16 hours install time. Load limit 20#. $795
    Dodge, no fabric removal, no welding. Approx. 4 hours install time. Load limit 20#. $545
    Agree...if the plane is down for recover then exploring all options is advised.
    Likes Airguide liked this post

  9. #9
    8856Charlie's Avatar
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    Just applied for my STC on my new all carbon extended baggage, bottom is 40 3/4" long. No welding or fabric mod will fit with dogleg on the bottom or top has an optional rod holder for four rods and weighs under 5#. Will have it at the Alaska Airman's airshow on the 30th!

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    www.SkupTech.com mike mcs repair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 8856Charlie View Post
    Just applied for my STC on my new all carbon extended baggage, bottom is 40 3/4" long. No welding or fabric mod will fit with dogleg on the bottom or top has an optional rod holder for four rods and weighs under 5#. Will have it at the Alaska Airman's airshow on the 30th!
    cool, pictures??????

  11. #11
    hiflyer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 8856Charlie View Post
    Just applied for my STC on my new all carbon extended baggage, bottom is 40 3/4" long. No welding or fabric mod will fit with dogleg on the bottom or top has an optional rod holder for four rods and weighs under 5#. Will have it at the Alaska Airman's airshow on the 30th!
    Is this a storage box that goes behind the back seat and extends into the fuselage, and can be accessed from inside the plane?

  12. #12
    8856Charlie's Avatar
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    It goes behind the standard baggage and drops all the way to the frame here is a shot of the plug (to make the mold) and the quik prototype to make sure it would fit (just made out of fiberglass mat) Just finished the mold last night for the lid will post photos of a finished one late this week.
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  13. #13
    www.SkupTech.com mike mcs repair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 8856Charlie View Post
    It goes behind the standard baggage and drops all the way to the frame here is a shot of the plug (to make the mold) and the quik prototype to make sure it would fit (just made out of fiberglass mat) Just finished the mold last night for the lid will post photos of a finished one late this week.

    very cool,

    I always wanted to do a "tub" style floor and sides all in one piece like that, so all the blood, sand and crap don't leak through...

    now you need to make the next section forward the same too, then it will be a great seller!

  14. #14
    Iflylower's Avatar
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    Looks great Charlie! How do you get it in there??
    "There are three things in life that people like to stare at: a flowing stream, a crackling fire and a Zamboni clearing the ice." Charlie Brown

    Please Join and Support the RAF! http://www.theraf.org/

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    8856Charlie's Avatar
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    The sides are short enough and the carbon layup is flexible enough that the sides flex in past the dog leg and then goes back to original shape. I have had it in two frames now one with the dog leg down and one up no problem.

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    hiflyer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 8856Charlie View Post
    The sides are short enough and the carbon layup is flexible enough that the sides flex in past the dog leg and then goes back to original shape. I have had it in two frames now one with the dog leg down and one up no problem.
    Looks a-ok to me Charlie. I think I will hold back on my install and you can let me know how yours is doing. Your idea may be a better plan for my useage......Fred

  17. #17
    mvivion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 8856Charlie View Post
    It goes behind the standard baggage and drops all the way to the frame here is a shot of the plug (to make the mold) and the quik prototype to make sure it would fit (just made out of fiberglass mat) Just finished the mold last night for the lid will post photos of a finished one late this week.

    That right there is downright cool!! Good luck with the approval process.

    MTV

  18. #18
    aktango58's Avatar
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    Carbon Fiber + salt water = BATTERY

    If I was only on land, not on beaches, I would be ordering one for myself, but with my salt water intrusion here, I would be having lots of fun with corrosion.

    Hope to see your box in Anchorage.
    I don't know where you've been me lad, but I see you won first Prize!

  19. #19
    www.SkupTech.com mike mcs repair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aktango58 View Post
    Carbon Fiber + salt water = BATTERY.....
    enlighten us please?

  20. #20
    aktango58's Avatar
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    Mike,

    I should have added aircraft..

    I have a piece of carbon fiber that was going into my plane. One of the FAA guys here made some calls, (yes, actually wanted to help), and was told that when working on salt water, carbon fiber in an aircraft is like pouring battery acid on the plane, in fact is one of the elements in some of these small light batteries. Something about the metal and carbon fiber reacting together in the salt water making electricity.

    I work on Salt water often, so seemed a good thing to stay away from.
    I don't know where you've been me lad, but I see you won first Prize!

  21. #21
    www.SkupTech.com mike mcs repair's Avatar
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    have not studied carbon stuff....

    but steel and aluminum also make a battery when we add saltwater or any moisture......

    would not the powder coating or paint on the steel take care of the issue?

    what do they do on carbon cub and all the other exp ones????????

  22. #22
    Dave Calkins's Avatar
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    George, your FAA guy has his head up...........er, um, ah....., your FAA guy is overreacting to something he does not understand.

    Carbon is conductive, just like aluminum and steel, gold, silver, etc.

    Have you been around aluminum and saltwater??? Yes.

    ....awaiting enlightenment....D

    ....and YES!!!! this "drop-in" baggage compartment "tub" is a very cool idea. D

  23. #23
    Dave Calkins's Avatar
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    Now, for the serious answer...... I keep direct contact of carbon fiber laminates insulated from metal aircraft materials. Pick your method of insulation.

    In some instances, I've laminated regular glass fibers into an edge of the carbon fiber part where I know I'll be riveting or fastening the carbon part to aluminum. Sometimes phenolic or plastic bushings are used to insulate/isolate the carbon part from the aluminum part.

    These practices are no different than making sure you have a good coat of epoxy paint or powder-coating on any aluminum or steel part in your airplane.

    ......Hope this helps.

    Randy's baggage is very cool, and weighs nothing, and it literally "flexes and drops into place" in my fuselage with a stock dogleg. DAVE

  24. #24
    StewartB
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    Carbon fiber's propensity to promote galvanic corrosion is widely known and well documented. Because it has been studied the corrosive reaction can be controlled. Here's a good research paper to consider. There are lots more on the web for anyone who wants to investigate for themselves. This is the most comprehensive one I've found. The whole paper is very well composed but if you want to get the gist if it? Skip forward to conclusions on page 208.

    http://www.quakewrap.com/frp%20paper...vironments.pdf

    Like being back in school, eh, but without all the pretty girls? Enjoy!

    Stewart
    Last edited by StewartB; 04-05-2011 at 11:32 AM.

  25. #25
    8856Charlie's Avatar
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    Stewart great article! I have had CF floor boards in my plane since "98" half the time on floats with no problems with corrosion. I now have MANY CF parts on the plane that I cant really talk about and have not seen any problems or even anything to give me concern. I will put down a piece of abrasion tape to protect the paint on the frame or aluminum but other than that nothing special. In the conclusions section of the article it states. 6. Since the Galvanic corrosion only initiates when there is DIRECT CONTACT between two dissimilar metals in the presence of an electrolyte, measures can be taken to ELIMINATE one or both of these parameters and to eliminate this problem. The use of a non conductive layer of fabric between carbon and steel, an isolating epoxy film on the steel surface, and a moisture barrier can be considered as a few preventive alternatives.

  26. #26
    8856Charlie's Avatar
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    Here are a few shots of the carbon prototype going in. Fits like a glove!!
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  27. #27
    aktango58's Avatar
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    Why is it that all this 'enlightenment' comes AFTER I have built my baggage, and the cool stuff comes out After I have built my baggage........

    How much are these? If I can solve my corrosion issue as it says, maybe I should consider it as a solution to my aft baggage...
    I don't know where you've been me lad, but I see you won first Prize!

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    8856Charlie's Avatar
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    I don't have a final price as the STC is not done yet. If you want to deal with a 337 PM me and we can talk.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 8856Charlie View Post
    Just applied for my STC on my new all carbon extended baggage, bottom is 40 3/4" long. No welding or fabric mod will fit with dogleg on the bottom or top has an optional rod holder for four rods and weighs under 5#. Will have it at the Alaska Airman's airshow on the 30th!
    Any estimate on when you will have it approved? Just a guesstimate is fine.

    Thanks
    There are those who have and those who will.

  30. #30
    8856Charlie's Avatar
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    I am at the mercy of the FAA, In all of the talks they said it would be an easy one but no time frame was ever given.

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    nanook's Avatar
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    Hi Charlie, let me know what you want for the plain Jane model? I would be willing to go through the field approval process....I would use something like the flame master sealant between the tubing and the carbon fiber....no chafe and no noise....PM me with a price....

  32. #32
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    Me too, can't wait for an STC.
    Steve Pierce

    Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects.
    Will Rogers

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    hiflyer's Avatar
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    I'm in as well Charlie, let me know when when it all comes together. I am intersted in putting your storage in my PA18

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    Now that I have established this question's status: I have an airframe's, brand new fuselage with all the extended baggage stuff installed as a PMA'ed part. The structure is approved by the FAA. I was told that the extended baggage, since installed as part of a PMA part, does not need further approval...

    if that is so, why do I need another STC for this baggage? Since it is non-structural, is there a reason one can not put what ever materials into the plane for the baggage walls/floor?

    I can see it if you have no baggage, but if you are simply exchanging materials????
    I don't know where you've been me lad, but I see you won first Prize!

  35. #35
    www.SkupTech.com mike mcs repair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aktango58 View Post


    Now that I have established this question's status: I have an airframe's, brand new fuselage with all the extended baggage stuff installed as a PMA'ed part. The structure is approved by the FAA. I was told that the extended baggage, since installed as part of a PMA part, does not need further approval...

    if that is so, why do I need another STC for this baggage? Since it is non-structural, is there a reason one can not put what ever materials into the plane for the baggage walls/floor?

    I can see it if you have no baggage, but if you are simply exchanging materials????
    Diffrent size. You would need to cut out the extended baggage floor rails on your fuselage for this... If i am looking at picture of it right???

  36. #36
    Dave Calkins's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike mcs repair View Post
    Diffrent size. You would need to cut out the extended baggage floor rails on your fuselage for this... If i am looking at picture of it right???
    Mike, you are looking at this right.

  37. #37
    aktango58's Avatar
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    I don't know where you've been me lad, but I see you won first Prize!

  38. #38
    Dave Calkins's Avatar
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    Yes, George. It is a real bummer that someone went to all that work to install those channels.

    I guess it's just progress. D

  39. #39

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    8856Charlie You need to be gearing up making them to fit airframes baggage frames also slips in and fits on the rails
    Steve C

  40. #40
    Dave Calkins's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by supercub24a View Post
    8856Charlie You need to be gearing up making them to fit airframes baggage frames also slips in and fits on the rails
    Steve C
    I agree, but one would be giving up several inches of baggage area depth by doing such....oh well.....some guys are stuck with those rails.
    Likes S2D liked this post

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