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Cessna 180 engine options

The saying I'm familiar with is "If it's an A, you walk way. If it's a J, it's OK". I don't mind sitting behind the J engine in my 180 at all. The only things "wrong" with the O-470J are: It has 2-bolt exhaust flanges at the cylinder heads instead of the 4-bolt flanges found on later engines. This is easily rectified by having thicker / 1/4 inch flanges welded onto the stacks.... The 2-bolt flanges tend to warp and you can get leakage at the port (bad thing if you let it go un-checked...).

As others have mentioned, the J also has "lightweight" cylinder heads when compared to the later K, L, R etc. engines. This is "rectified" by being "nice" to your cylinders! (watch CHT / EGT temps carefully, operate in "conservative" mode (run a bit more fuel through the engine, don't operate lean of peak, etc.), Be mindful of shock-cooling, ensure the baffling is in good condition, and never take off with your cowl flaps closed....

If a J still has the 3-ring pistons, oil consumption can be "elevated" when compared to later engines. Maybe I'm lucky, and I don't know if I have 3-ring pistons or 4-ring pistons, but mine goes 20+ hours before I have to add a quart of oil (I think it leaks more than it burns!).

The good thing about an O-470J is, depending upon which piece of documentation you believe, the J engine is between 25lbs and 35lbs lighter than any of the later engines.
 
Skukum I have a friend with a higher time J. And I have some O470R cylinders. Your mods sound good! What are you doing for paperwork? Thanks

So do either of you guys have a verdict? I am a few days away from my 180 purchase. It is a '55 and has a high time J. Compressions/oil consumption are fine and it was priced very accordingly. I am planning to fly it home and do the engine when necessary. (hopefully can get a few more hours out of her, but have budgeted just in case) I was thinking the Scootair R swap but from what I am reading it is not as simple as their STC makes it sound.
thanks,
Juan
 
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So do either of you guys have a verdict? I am a few days away from my 180 purchase. It is a '55 and has a high time J. Compressions/oil consumption are fine and it was priced very accordingly. I am planning to fly it home and do the engine when necessary. (hopefully can get a few more hours out of her, but have budgeted just in case) I was thinking the Scootair R swap but from what I am reading it is not as simple as their STC makes it sound.
thanks,
Juan

I did the Scootair STC and changed my O470J to an O470R. It actually wasn't that hard!
 

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I owned a 57 with a O470 built by BPA, Barrett Precesion Engines. The carb/intake was modified etc. Call them for details. I was swinging a 88" black mac. I regularly beat the pants off of 550 powered airplanes when it came to short field work.
 
So what does it take to drop a IO-470 into a 1959 180? What kind of stuff do you need to add, subtract, etc? How much work is it? Is it really just a field approval and does anyone have the copy of it? Currently have an R that is pushing 1900, so just looking for some options. I can't afford anything new, looking for something mid-time to throw in and would like a couple more ponies.
 
So what does it take to drop a IO-470 into a 1959 180?
The Norland STC takes an IO-470 and puts a carburetor on instead of the FI and I think the HP is still up around 260. I think it can also use a 88 inch McCauley seaplane prop from a 230 hp engine.
 
The Norland STC takes an IO-470 and puts a carburetor on instead of the FI and I think the HP is still up around 260. I think it can also use a 88 inch McCauley seaplane prop from a 230 hp engine.

That sounds interesting! Who is Norland? Do you have a link or contact info for them?
 
So what does it take to drop a IO-470 into a 1959 180? What kind of stuff do you need to add, subtract, etc? How much work is it? Is it really just a field approval and does anyone have the copy of it? Currently have an R that is pushing 1900, so just looking for some options. I can't afford anything new, looking for something mid-time to throw in and would like a couple more ponies.

It's pretty involved to put a fuel injected motor into an airplane that's carbuerated! Probably better to go to an O520.
 
http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgstc.nsf/0/44b225bc1508fb0585256cc1007dc994!OpenDocument&Click=

[h=3]Re: thoughts on 182 engine upgrade[/h] by 66skylane » Thu Sep 22, 2011 8:18 am
The Norland isn't a bad option either. My dad has a Norland in his 180 and I have a Pponk in my 182 and we fly together almost weekly and did prior to upgrading either airplane so he have good pre-upgrade data. He is a teeny bit more fuel efficient than my Pponk but I can out climb him (barely) and gained more speed from the Pponk conversion than he did from the Norland.The Norland isn't well known around the flying community which may give the Pponk an edge come resale time. The other advantage of the Pponk is the low compression pistons which I hear likes 87 octane car gas which I can buy for $3.90 locally (ethonol free), though it's not legal so I would never do this of course...

[url]http://www.rareaircraft.com/N9661B.htm

[/URL]
 
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Norland is on Head Lake in Ontario... just West of Norland, Ontario about an hour from me. No website that I know of or can find.. but his phone is
[h=3](705) 454-8933[/h]
 
The Norland engine and the Texas Skyways O 470 UTS(O470U that is turned up 200 rpm) are basically the same. The reason I'd go with the Norland is because I have an 88 in propeller sitting here that wouldn't work with the Texas STC. When 100 LL goes away the Texas engine would look good because you can use 88% ethanol legally.
 
I just talked to Chris at Norland. There IO470 conversion sounds interesting! There is a derelict 310 on our field with IO470's. Anyone interested in doing the Norland STC. I would make a really good deal on the first one!


Thanks,
Charlie Longley
 
Was I right in thinking the 88 inch McCauley seaplane prop will work?

Oh yeah! And there is another McCauley with a fatter blade that he has approved that wasn't previously approved for the 180. You can also use the longer prop on the 182 if heavy duty gear is installed to provide ground clearance. I am salivating!
 
I am interested in doing the Norland as well, let me know what you find out. In the process of looking for an engine
 
Talked to the engine builder about the ppw for the J to R conversion....logbook entry, get a fresh w/b. Project Eternity should be ready for a flight in a couple days, weather depending. Had to replace the tail wheel head and tube. The tube snapped into about five seperate and distinctive pieces when we pushed her into the tiedown for the night. Over $3000 for a new Cessna tail spring, got a very nice used specimen.
 
The tube snapped into about five seperate and distinctive pieces when we pushed her into the tiedown for the night.
Never heard of that before. Did water freeze in it to get so many breaks?
 
I suppose it could have been water at some point, nothing came out once we got her inside. We were thinking metal fatigue. It snapped diagonally from the t/w head uphill roughly two inches plus down inside the head in and around the bolt holes. We plugged the replacement stinger at the top.
 
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Originally Posted by skukum12

Talked to the engine builder about the ppw for the J to R conversion....logbook entry, get a fresh w/b.
Don't know if I agree with that! But to each his own.

There are two separate approvals here. The first is the engine conversion from a J to R. The second is the installation of the R engine into the airplane. One could be a minor and the other could be a major.
 
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Originally Posted by skukum12

Talked to the engine builder about the ppw for the J to R conversion....logbook entry, get a fresh w/b.


There are two separate approvals here. The first is the engine conversion from a J to R. The second is the installation of the R engine into the airplane. One could be a minor and the other could be a major.

Don't know if agree with that either!
 
Other than the increased cooling of the -R cylinders. What is the benifit? Obviously you had to rework your exhaust, were there any other mods necessary? Did the -J induction bolt right up?
 
Did the J induction bolt up
It should as long as you use an oil pan from the A,J, or K also. When I installed the K in mine I was going to use the induction Y from my A. It would have worked except a guy gave me an oil pump from an O 470 U that had an intregal spin on oil filter. It wouldn't fit because the Y from the A had a cross piece cast in between the upper split. Had to call Gibson Aviation to get a Y that didn't have that cross reinforcing. If I had used the original non oil filter pump would have been a non issue. Hope you can understand what I did.
 
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