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Cessna 180 engine options

I've only got to drive it once so far.......

Always been a VW fan. Maybe I can find a old bus grow some hair and get the band back together.

Merry Christmas Johnson.

Sent from my Atari 64
 
I have a copy of DR DOS that will run on it :lol: PM me. :lol:

Careful! This could escalate quickly and go to R&R. I had serial number 5 Osborne 1 plus lots of other ancient stuff...

Boz, you've come a long way, baby! Great pics of Jacob and Moose must be what? 14 by now?

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Sorry, forgive my nerd exterior. Not the right forum.

.... Hum, I post my humor on alt.computer.atari64.dos. with no issue!
 
BTW SJ,

...did your Osborne have the green or amber monitor? Cool beans! Thank you for the foto!
 
I'm a bit late but I'll chime in anyway. I still have the original "J" engine on my 55 180 and I have no plans to change it. It runs great, doesn't leak (much) and doesn't use excessive oil. Compression is great and it just purrs along. I find nothing wrong with the "J" at all.
 
Cessna 180 options

Joe : I've got two Taylorcraft model 20's with the 0-470 J that run just fine. I don't plan on changing anything for quite awhile !!!
 
Boz someone must have hacked your password and be posting with it...:)

Do you have an axe in the passat?

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2

I was thinking the same way. Next thing we know Boz is gonna be driving a Cadillac SUV. 8)
 
BTW SJ,

...did your Osborne have the green or amber monitor? Cool beans! Thank you for the foto!

Actually, we had one of each I believe in the The Computer Garage (a computer recycling store I started in the late 80's), not to mention a couple Kaypro's and some other GIANT portables like the Zenith. The one we had a the Med Center where I worked was B/W. I should have hung on to the Apple Lisa's I supposed they would be worth something now...

sj
 
Welp... it's been 10 years... and the O-470 ain't quite the dinosaur that those Compaq Luggables have become.

What's the current thinking around engine options for an early 180 (say '55)? I am leaning toward the NorthPoint (PPONK) still because I really, want as little weight added to the nose as possible. My time is coming and I want to plan for it. I currently have an O-470R with dual exhaust that was converted from the original J case with the 88" McCauley prop.

NorthPoint XP470-50
Norland Carbureted IO470
Texas Skyways O-520
Texas Skyways O-550
Air Plains IO-520
Air Plains IO-550
 
I went through this a couple years ago with my 56 182. I went with pponk, port polish, high compression pistons. It's a beast now, but came out heavier than I expected, sorry can't remember exact numbers so take it for what it's worth. It affected my weight and balance, so then I did wing x to increase my gross weight. Also it's thirsty, so now my 55 gallons seems lacking (might get Monarch aux tanks). And after all that I still have a carburetor. I naively thought I was just "adding more power" and getting the pponk grin, but I found out one thing leads to another which leads to another when you move away from stock engine/airframe pairings. I wish I had looked at the injected options more closely. I had thought I would go pponk instead of injected to save weight, but I'm not sure that happened. As far as power increase it is dramatic. But going from a wrung out 0-470 to a fresh overhaul probably would have been noticeable.
 
I considered an IO-550 but to me it doesn’t make sense in a 180. Too much investment and not enough gain. Same for an IO-520. Not enough advantage to justify converting the fuel system, even with my 3190# gross. My engine is a Pponk but I’d be happy with a TS. In either case it’s the prop that does the magic.
 
You'll find the old A/J exhaust too restrictive for any of the 520 engines. You'll need to open it up to help the engine breathe.
 
I had a '79 180 that I converted to Texas Skyways O-520 in the mid-nineties. I was very disappointed in the way it turned out. Cruise fuel consumption went up 3 gal/hr with a 2 kt. gain in speed. No big difference in climb. The carb did not seem to get along with so much displacement, mixtures were very uneven and nothing to be done about it.

If I had your airplane, I would convert to an O-470 U and keep the long 2-blade. The best of both worlds.
 
As for Pponks? Much has changed with respect to carbs and fuel flow since 25 years ago. I have no reason to know how TS may have done the same but a friend has a TS520 in his 135 airplane and it works great. My carb has gone through three mods after the initial conversion mod, all to increase flow. The last one was money. Cool temps and very even temps. As for speed-fuel consumption, like I said earlier, the prop is what matters. Burning fuel with the wrong prop won’t impress anyone.

I think the 520/86” 3-blade mod is the best money a guy can spend to improve a 180 if he flies it at or near gross weight, and more important for later models with higher gross. The nuances of O vs IO or Mac vs Hartzell are fine points compared to the displacement increase.
 
You'll find the old A/J exhaust too restrictive for any of the 520 engines. You'll need to open it up to help the engine breathe.

I believe Knisley sells a dual exhaust for the 53-55 C180 which incorporates larger diameter tubing for better breathing.
 
Light, early 180's perform pretty well with the O-470, especially if it's only flown on wheels off of hard runways. It's the operation that should decide the engine. If the aircraft is flown on floats and/or skis the increase in displacement is almost mandatory. My 54 went from a single place, full fuel departure from my small lake (on floats) to a comfortable gross weight, on a warm day (we don't really have hot days in Alaska) with no wind departure from the same lake with the PPonk/3 blade 86". The increase in fuel flow and the inconsistent EGT's due to the inability of the carb to distribute the fuel was totally corrected by the installation of an RSA fuel injection system with GAMI injectors. Now the engine burns almost exactly according to the IO-520 fuel burn data with a EGT temperature differential of between 30-40 degrees. I figure with the current (and future) cost of fuel the injection system will pay for itself three times before I hit TBO.

I also have the option of slowing the cruise speed back down to the O-470J/EDO 2870/ 2 blade (about 125 MPH) by running LOP and saving more gas money but at my age time is worth more than money.
 
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I’ve got a beater ‘56 182 I’ve gone round and round on selling or keeping, upgrading or keeping it simple. After digging through countless websites and Continental data sheets, it appears that anything other than the stock 470L will be 30 lbs heavier at a minimum. I seriously considered the Norland STC with a 2 blade MT prop, but 30 lbs plus the added weight of the Airglas nose setup is more than I want. Currently planning on keeping the 470L and overhauling it when the time comes, and putting a 2 blade MT on as well. I’m hoping the MT and simplifying the firewall forward will offset the weight gain of the Airglas and keep the plane a nice flyer.
 
I’ve got a beater ‘56 182 I’ve gone round and round on selling or keeping, upgrading or keeping it simple. After digging through countless websites and Continental data sheets, it appears that anything other than the stock 470L will be 30 lbs heavier at a minimum. I seriously considered the Norland STC with a 2 blade MT prop, but 30 lbs plus the added weight of the Airglas nose setup is more than I want. Currently planning on keeping the 470L and overhauling it when the time comes, and putting a 2 blade MT on as well. I’m hoping the MT and simplifying the firewall forward will offset the weight gain of the Airglas and keep the plane a nice flyer.
The Norland IO470 with a carb would be that much heavier?
 
I converted my 470K to Pponk(7.5 compression ratio). It was a Phase 1 crankcase. All that changed was the connecting rods, cylinders and pistons. I doubt the weight changed a whole lot but didn't actually weigh it before and after.
 
I had a '79 180 that I converted to Texas Skyways O-520 in the mid-nineties. I was very disappointed in the way it turned out. Cruise fuel consumption went up 3 gal/hr with a 2 kt. gain in speed. No big difference in climb. The carb did not seem to get along with so much displacement, mixtures were very uneven and nothing to be done about it.

If I had your airplane, I would convert to an O-470 U and keep the long 2-blade. The best of both worlds.

Great advice. I had a friend who had a 78 180. With the O-470-U he burned 11 gph and cruised a few mph faster than my 55 180. He decided to go with a Texas Skyways O-520. We had a blast flying the airplane down to Boerne to get the conversion done, but I was never impressed with the result. He went from 11 gph to 13 or 14 gph and only gained a few mph. The 3 blade prop didn't do anything exceptional either (unless you like the look). He never really said whether he liked it or not, but I sure liked the original configuration a lot better. Great performance, great looks, and low fuel burn. If it were mine I would have left it alone!
 
My 470K is over TBO so I'll have to overhaul it one of these days.
But so far it's running great: good compressions, good oil pressure, and not making metal--
so I'll just continue to run it.
I've thought about ponking it when the time comes, or the equivalent from TS or whoever,
But I mostly fly light, and around the low country of puget sound where it doesn't usually get too warm,
and to be honest I'm satisfied with the performance as is.
I figure a ponk conversion is gonna cost me about $20K more than a stock overhaul:
$3K for the STC, and probably another grand of misc.
And about $6K more to buy new 520 cylinders,
vs overhauling the first-run K cylinders on my factory reman.
In between quality issues, and AD's,
I'm not too impressed with what I hear about new cylinders these days anyway.
Plus it'll be about another $10K to upgrade the prop from my current 88" C201 (not approved on a ponk).
Then there's operating costs:
I run mogas, which right now is running about $2 a gallon less than 100LL around here.
$2 a gallon x 12 gph x 100 hours = $2400 a year added operating costs,
or $36K over the 1500 hour TBO.
Another concern is that a friend of mine ponked his engine,
but afterwards had ongoing issues with severe carb icing.
He ended up installed Bendix fuel injection which cured the problem.
But it wasn't cheap-- I think just the field approval engineering data was close to a grand.
So bottom line, for me, the advantages of a ponk conversion are outweighed by the down sides.
 
So bottom line, for me, the advantages of a ponk conversion are outweighed by the down sides.

Well said. Your operation has clearly defined your logical powerplant choice. Have you had any issues with mogas effecting your bladder tanks? I suspect the lower compression of the STC'd PPonk would allow it to run OK on mogas but because we do not have access to clear gas in Alaska (at least to my knowledge) I elected to go with the higher compression pistons and haven't been stuck on skis since.
 
I'm seeing a trend in the replies that those who went 520 are not seeing much gain in cruise. I also did not note a dramatic increase but I only fly on floats and skis. I have never flown the aircraft since conversion on little wheels, always lots of drag out there. I have heard stories of 520'd 180's cruising "well within the yellow arc". Anyone see this amount of increase?
 
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