Wasilla Lodge Owner Has C-206 and Supercub Confiscated, Jail Time
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Beach Bum
Registered User
Acworth, GA
Well, I'm sorry if I offended you, I'm not trying to tick you off but again its frustrating when people post and they don't know what they are talking about. So I'll try once again.
I was saying you appeared stupid because you were commenting on a story you knew nothing, or little about, and got the facts flat wrong. I wasn't saying I wanted to come steal from you but using that analogy to try to express to you, and make you think about the question, is it his property if he bought it with other peoples money? That is the point of the seizure law. Thanks for pointing out this is not your website and you are just a visitor here. That was helpful.
So now we went from don't seize an aircraft to throw him in jail for the rest of his life? I'm already starting to like you more. And the judges typically suspend some jail time so they will have that hanging over their head for the next time they think about committing a crime. It does cost to keep people in jail and no matter how important wildlife is, crimes against humans usually gets more attention.
Again, I hate to keep pointing this out but once again you don't know what you are talking about. He was NOT a professional guide. That's the whole
point!! Again, he was NOT a guide. He did not have a guide license, but was acting as one.Did you even read the article or did the government seize something from you?
Now please don't take this as me saying the government should have their hand in everything. You used this thread to complain about the State taking his plane and the government in general overstepping its bounds.
If it weren't for the government seizing items that were obtained through illegal means there would be even more motivation for people to break the law than there is now.
Here is a way to fix this issue that you have with seizure. Don't take things illegally and obey the law, if you don't like the law, work on getting the law changed.
Again, I'm sorry if I offended you but its frustrating when people use an example of when the laws worked as they were intended, to try to blame the government. They did something right for a change (or at least the right direction).
And I'm glad that Steve has this website up for everyone to use. Discussion about these topics is a good way to see others viewpoints. So I'll agree to disagree with you on this. And if you come to Alaska I'll buy you a beer and maybe we can go flying (not after the beers of course) . Sounds like the conversation wouldn't be boring. So what are your thoughts on Palin? j/k :lol:
You have more stamina then I do discussing this. I'm moving on. Look forward to the beers!
P.S. In my younger days I was a Los Angeles Police officer....I'm no softy on crime. Now days I just bang my head against the wall running a business.
sj
Staff member
Northwest Arkansas
Wooden-headedness, the source of self-deception, is a factor that plays a remarkably large role in government. It consists in assessing a situation in terms of preconceived fixed notions while ignoring or rejecting any contrary signs. It is acting according to wish while not allowing oneself to be deflected by the facts.
—Barbara Tuchman
That is one of the quotes from a great book I am reading called "Being Wrong: Adventures in the Margin of Error", in it I found out that even I was wrong once or twice...
http://beingwrongbook.com/
Sorry if this post SEEMS off-topic... 8)
sj
—Barbara Tuchman
That is one of the quotes from a great book I am reading called "Being Wrong: Adventures in the Margin of Error", in it I found out that even I was wrong once or twice...
http://beingwrongbook.com/
Sorry if this post SEEMS off-topic... 8)
sj
Think this guy is bad, come down my way,Chicago he will look like a saint,
In Racine there is a shooting every other day,and Milwaukee there's hunting every day,mostly
drive by,they don,t leave the meat to rot,goes to hospital,runs up 200,000 bill then to jail(home)
then 70,000.00 a year.
In Racine there is a shooting every other day,and Milwaukee there's hunting every day,mostly
drive by,they don,t leave the meat to rot,goes to hospital,runs up 200,000 bill then to jail(home)
then 70,000.00 a year.
185 Bushbird
Registered User
Surfside SPB-Minneapolis, MN
I've met Kurt at Osh-kosh before when he was selling his S cub, talked with him several times, sold him a set of S cub wings, he even payed me and someone else who crated them up for him and shipped them up to AK. As for his house he told me he was a builder-developer and did a guide hunting business in AK and liked to build and sell S cubs, he seemed like a nice guy but maybee he had a dark side also. Look at some of the politicians who try to run this country and what they get away with! It seems people get off easier with people & drug crimes vs wildlife violations also. I know of a MN DNR warden who should be fired for some of his actions & violations, but he is protected i guess?? Truley a joke and disgrace to the good DNR officers that i know and do a good job.
polardds
Registered User
Eagle River, Alaska
I am not a fan of the confiscation of property but money is what gets people's attention. So if the government in this case were not to confiscate the aircraft, would a monetary fine for the value of the two aircraft have been more satisfactory to someone like TJ?
mike mcs repair
Registered User
chugiak AK
they were likely Fish and game employees from in state, or out of state... "plants" they are called...
is how the game is played....
some guides pay to do full background checks on all of their clients, to try to root out the ones with no background, to help identify the plants...
they still take them and their $$$$, they just make sure the play by the rules with them....
plants also try to get you to take parts of the same illegal kill in different planes so they can seize more planes...
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68Papa
FRIEND
Chugiak, Alaska
When I took my guide test in 1992, ADF&G was spending about $120,000 a year booking hunts with Alaska guides. I've known a few guides that have had fish & game officers in camp. Some knew it at the time, because they did background type checks. Some knew it because the client/cop went out of his way to get the assistant guide to violate game laws and ended up in court on percieved violations that this guy went out of his way to try and commit. The charges against this Registered Guide and the Assistant performing the hunt were dismissed because no laws were violated and this guys attempt to get them to violate were outrageous as well as documented.
RD
RD
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scout88305
SPONSOR
Northern Minnesota
on the edge of say "entrapment" ??
68Papa
FRIEND
Chugiak, Alaska
That's always the argument and it certainly seems that way to me. Law enforcement has been doing that for years, whether it's buying drugs or hiring prostitutes - I guess it's all part of the "undercover" process - I guess?? In this particular case, the guide had a pretty good idea that a plant would be in camp and it didn't take them long to figure out who it was. Apprarently he was a fish & game officer from the Lower 48 that the Alaska Dept. brought up to to this "undercover sting". The best the Assistant could tell, the only job this guy ever had with the agency he worked for was a desk job. He had absolutely no skills as an outdoorsman, hunter - anything! His absolute ignorance to the sport he was pursuing(at an expensive price tag), gave him away and made the case very difficult to pursue. I've heard this story from the Assistant who was guiding this guy and it's a pretty funny story. They still ended up in court on goofy charges that were thrown out.
RD
Patrol Guy
FRIEND
east of the river
I think there are a lot of “sting” ops going with all kinds of law enforcement. It is a whole lot easier then doing old fashion detective work.
There was a TV show in New Orleans where they would park nice cars in bad areas with the keys in them, and the cops waited maybe 10 minutes and would get an auto theft bust. They would get that car taken 8-10 times a day.
…like, are there really any “hit men” out there for hire? Around these parts every time someone hires one to knock off their spouse, they always hire an undercover cop. There must be a web site: www.hireahit.com, that is manned by cops.
There was a TV show in New Orleans where they would park nice cars in bad areas with the keys in them, and the cops waited maybe 10 minutes and would get an auto theft bust. They would get that car taken 8-10 times a day.
…like, are there really any “hit men” out there for hire? Around these parts every time someone hires one to knock off their spouse, they always hire an undercover cop. There must be a web site: www.hireahit.com, that is manned by cops.
S
StewartB
So the thread has gone full circle and now it's the Troopers who are the bad guys? Amazing. :roll:
SB
SB
mike mcs repair
Registered User
chugiak AK
It is only entrappment if the officer's inducement is such that a person would engage in conduct that he would not normally engage in. For example, if you are already a drug dealer, it is hard to claim entrapment. Now if a beautiful woman asks a man up to a hotel room, takes off her clothes, and then asks for money...that may be entrapment.
The original subject of this thread was not entrapped, at least according to the jury verdict.
The original subject of this thread was not entrapped, at least according to the jury verdict.
dalec
GONE WEST
Anchorage and beyond
Stewart
My point on this thread is realatively simple. I don't care for the tactics of a number of the fish and wildlife enforcement agencies, whether they be State or Federal. I find they are far too often over zealous and interpret the laws and regulations to their personal bias. However that doesn't change the facts in this case.
Mr. Lepping was convicted of guiding without a license, bear baiting and a few other violations. These viloations were not of the type that were easily chalked up to misinterpretation or reasonable ignorance. While I don't necessarily agree with the tactics employed by ADF&G, I can't condone Mr Lepping's actions either. In this one I am with TJ, I don't like asset forfeiture laws for game violations, I think they send the wrong message. Fines and/or jail time depending on the circumstances would seem more appropriate. While this may be a fine point it is my point of view.
If a person is guilty of commercialization of illegally taken wildlife, he has committed a Federal Felony under the Lacey Act. As such I am surprised that he was tried in State court rather than having this turned over to the Feds. That is a course I have seen taken many times when the State was having difficulty making a case in State Court. The State must have felt they had a very strong case, that supposition tends to have been validated by the outcome in State Court.
Viewed from that perspective maybe Mr. Lepping got a better deal?
In the end I am not sure if "justice" was served, but I can say that punishment was meted out.
My point on this thread is realatively simple. I don't care for the tactics of a number of the fish and wildlife enforcement agencies, whether they be State or Federal. I find they are far too often over zealous and interpret the laws and regulations to their personal bias. However that doesn't change the facts in this case.
Mr. Lepping was convicted of guiding without a license, bear baiting and a few other violations. These viloations were not of the type that were easily chalked up to misinterpretation or reasonable ignorance. While I don't necessarily agree with the tactics employed by ADF&G, I can't condone Mr Lepping's actions either. In this one I am with TJ, I don't like asset forfeiture laws for game violations, I think they send the wrong message. Fines and/or jail time depending on the circumstances would seem more appropriate. While this may be a fine point it is my point of view.
If a person is guilty of commercialization of illegally taken wildlife, he has committed a Federal Felony under the Lacey Act. As such I am surprised that he was tried in State court rather than having this turned over to the Feds. That is a course I have seen taken many times when the State was having difficulty making a case in State Court. The State must have felt they had a very strong case, that supposition tends to have been validated by the outcome in State Court.
Viewed from that perspective maybe Mr. Lepping got a better deal?
In the end I am not sure if "justice" was served, but I can say that punishment was meted out.
aktango58
FRIEND
18AA
T.J and Dale,
Look at this another way: Lepper used the aircraft as an integral tool to perform illegal guiding operations. The planes purchase, care and expenses were paid for by illegal guiding. I wold bet that if you look in the IRS paperwork, they are written off as guide expenses...
Do you think that folks are paying attention to their actions a bit more if the aircraft is on the line?
You have not heard about the search to find the cub, which included it being flown south with no flight plan because it was being sought out with a warrant...
Lepping is not getting near what he deserves. The first go around was not a undercover operation; it was his flagrant disregard for anyone else's rights and decency.
The troopers could have burned the planes as far as I care, but better that they have a chance to be used...
Look at this another way: Lepper used the aircraft as an integral tool to perform illegal guiding operations. The planes purchase, care and expenses were paid for by illegal guiding. I wold bet that if you look in the IRS paperwork, they are written off as guide expenses...
Do you think that folks are paying attention to their actions a bit more if the aircraft is on the line?
You have not heard about the search to find the cub, which included it being flown south with no flight plan because it was being sought out with a warrant...
Lepping is not getting near what he deserves. The first go around was not a undercover operation; it was his flagrant disregard for anyone else's rights and decency.
The troopers could have burned the planes as far as I care, but better that they have a chance to be used...
nanook
MEMBER
northern alaska
I have watched this guy over the years. Remember three strikes and your out? This guy has had about twenty seven...Who gives a rats ass what they do to this dirt bag.... Direct your anti-government/big brother, heavy handed, angst toward someone who, is more deserving.
glaciercub
Registered User
knik glacier
Amen to you Nanook.........
you hit it on the nail!
you hit it on the nail!
T.J.
Registered User
Alaska
My antiguvment/big brother, heavy handed angst comment wasn't directed at ANYONE. It was directed at the stupid law. I don't care if it was Mother Theresa or Lepper, it is a bad law. Fine them, throw them in jail but don't take their stuff.
I would also direct the same comments to the enticement/entrapment law. They use taxpayer money to "BUY" some poor bast##D to brake the law, then arrest them. "A person would engage in conduct that he would not normally engage in."
If , a beautiful woman was offered $10,000 to take a man up to a hotel room, would that be enticement/entrapment? She is probably engaging in a conduct that she would normally be engaged it.
They are bad laws and give the guvment to much leeway to abuse them.
I would also direct the same comments to the enticement/entrapment law. They use taxpayer money to "BUY" some poor bast##D to brake the law, then arrest them. "A person would engage in conduct that he would not normally engage in."
If , a beautiful woman was offered $10,000 to take a man up to a hotel room, would that be enticement/entrapment? She is probably engaging in a conduct that she would normally be engaged it.
They are bad laws and give the guvment to much leeway to abuse them.
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Beach Bum
Registered User
Acworth, GA
There has been much discussion about this story with what appears over 50% glad this guy had his planes confiscated. Just my take on the thread. It appears some feel comfortable with personal property confiscation on the basis it was obtained after engaging in illegal activity. Many times, not the case. In a slightly different direction- in the past 6 months I've listened to or watched stories on the news about regulations working through this government that would empower them to shut down the Internet at will with no judicial review and also have the power to read private emails of any US citizen without warrants. If you voice opposition to the governments plans you're a threat and need to be silenced. Google is now working with the NSA. 16,000 new IRS agents being hired to enforce the health plan bill just passed. There are many more examples of serious plans of government intrusion into everyday, law abiding US citizens. I don't expect to change anyone from their way of thinking but I surely feel the noose getting tighter.
Respectfully, if you bring up Lepper or what ever his names is, you're missing the focus of this and my original comment(s).
Respectfully, if you bring up Lepper or what ever his names is, you're missing the focus of this and my original comment(s).
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S
StewartB
The biggest threat to a defendant in a fish and game trial is forfeiture of equipment. Maximum fines the court can impose are often times financially insignificant by comparison.
SB
SB
Gary Reeves
SPONSOR
Lake Clark National Park, Alaska
Up here we all know the game and consequences. So confiscation is not a surprise. I recall in the '80s when I was still a tourist and tried to get a llicense from a 7/11 cclerk on my way to the bush at a late hour.. The female clerk had a black eye and stitches and did not know how to fiill out the forms. I said " heck, I will fill it out, I have many times". She refused - and said. "Mister, you can beat the hell out of your lady here, but don't %&C# with Fish and Game. ". !
I respect tough laws and tough cops.
GR
I am beginning to respect tough judges too.
I respect tough laws and tough cops.
GR
I am beginning to respect tough judges too.
King Brown
Registered User
Nova Scotia
The guy was lucky he didn't lose his lodge. If the illegal activity contributed significantly to his business, that lodge could be considered under "proceeds from crime."
