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Thread: Check That Muffler

  1. #1
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    Check That Muffler

    Mailed out an Atlee Dodge Hot Rod Muffler out today to one of our members who could only get 1900 rpm on take-off on a sand bar. Got back to his hanger with a lot of pucker factor and found the flame tube of his muffler blocking the tailpipe. Good idea tolook up the tailpipe every pre-flight and make sure the flame tube is intact and not warped. Also a good idea to weld in the bail so the outlet can't get stopped up. The AD requires a pretty thorough inspection every 100 hrs.on mufflers with less than 1000 hrs and every 50 hrs. after that. Don't want to have to pick up any pieces so I thought I would mention this never ending problem.
    Steve Pierce

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    Will Rogers

  2. #2
    www.SkupTech.com mike mcs repair's Avatar
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    the bail should be a requirement......

    FYI..
    if a 185 muffler cone breaks right at base it will partially block outlet also... only found one of those at inspection... many that blown out in pieces

  3. #3

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    Was the muffler with the pucker inducing issue stock or otherwise?
    Remember, These are the Good old Days!

  4. #4
    Torch's Avatar
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    I have an Atlee Dodge muffler. I think they are designed where they don't have that problem. I bought it when my old one did have that problem. I would like to get one of those hotrod mufflers.

  5. #5
    C-FIJK's Avatar
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    I had a Citabria 7 GCB 0-290 d 2 was flying on floats landed in a small lake went fishing , when we fired it up to leave same thing happend to me no power 1900 rpm then the rpm picked up , when i got home I went over the hole plane and found nothing, called my mechanic and he said the same look up in the exhaust, piece had broken off and was covering 75% of the hole , again I got lucky !!!
    Gerry Marcil

    Every day spent flying is a great day !

  6. #6
    StewartB
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    New mufflers are relatively inexpensive. Why guys fly around with 40-50 year old exhaust parts is a mystery to me. A brand new Atlee HD muffler is $585. Heck, I replaced my entire Cessna exhaust system for right at $2k complete and got a better design with far less leak potential. It was a simple decision.

    Stewart

  7. #7
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    I think Atlee's HD muffler has the bail welded into it. The Hot Rod muffler has no baffle and the AD doesn't apply. The muffler that failed was a stockmuffler.
    Steve Pierce

    Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects.
    Will Rogers
    Thanks Jonnyo thanked for this post

  8. #8

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    Steve, you are right about this being a continuing problem -- not just for Cubs. Please do look up any aircraft tailpipe on preflight -- C206 mufflers especially with the china hat type flame cones, C185, Maules...

    Our Tern muffler cones failed this summer, my husband was flying and happened to mention that the engine seemed low on power...

    And a customer with a Maule made an off-hand comment this fall about having me check the compression on the engine due to it didn't seem to feel right... I found the cones on one side rattling around and blocking the exhaust exit.

    I am a real believer in listening carefully when my friends and customers tell me something doesn't feel right.

    Even the newer heavy duty Atlee Dodge muffler cones will fail eventually. Steve's advice to look up the tailpipe is good advice, do it even if you friends laugh at you for practicing aircraft proctology.

    Vickie

  9. #9
    www.SkupTech.com mike mcs repair's Avatar
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    probably worth posting for those who have not seen it,

    this is the bail you can buy and have 4 small welds added to your existing muffler (removed,cleaned)

    it sticks up out of tail pipe and into muffler can some, so nothing can lay over and block tail pipe hole

    look up your tail pipe, if you don't have it, get it(or make it, it's just 3/16 rod I think), it will save you from loosing a bunch of power WHEN your muffler starts coming apart



    MUFFLER BAIL U452-093
    Muffler Bail Welded inside muffler out let to guard against Flame Tube failure and obstruction of exhaust outlet.
    View more details 05-02150MUFFLER BAIL U452-093$33.70

  10. #10
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    Well I am doing the annual on my Super Cub that I bought in November and got to the exhaust system today. Needless to say I am weighing my options.

    Front of the muffler around the tailpipe was cracked.
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    Rear as well. Wasn't much holding it together.
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    The flame tube was ready to go.
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    At least the bale would have prevented complete blockage of the tailpipe.
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    I had looked up the tailpipe recently with no abnormality, I guess I should have been looking prior to every flight. Now I am contemplating if the remaining parts of the system are worth putting back into service with a Atlee Dodge Heavy Duty muffler, go with an Atlee Dodge Hot Rod muffler or replace the whole system with a Sutton.
    Steve Pierce

    Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects.
    Will Rogers
    Thanks flylowslow, Bender thanked for this post

  11. #11
    Eddie Foy's Avatar
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    Steve,
    Mine hasnt failed but I have been thinking the same thing to remove the 50 hour AD. I am leaning toward the Sutton. Thanks for sharing that.

    Eddie
    "Put out my hand and touched the face of God!"

  12. #12
    RaisedByWolves's Avatar
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    I might know where you can get a hot rod muffler

  13. #13
    Eddie Foy's Avatar
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    Was that for Steve or me?

    Eddie
    "Put out my hand and touched the face of God!"

  14. #14
    cubdriver2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RaisedByWolves View Post
    I might know where you can get a hot rod muffler
    It's about time that Steve has a chance to catch up borrowing parts

    Glenn

  15. #15
    aktango58's Avatar
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    I suggest the Sutton. My biggest reason is that the amount of heat against the firewall goes down I am told. In Texas you don't need more heat in the cabin!
    I don't know where you've been me lad, but I see you won first Prize!

  16. #16
    nanook's Avatar
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    Bummer... We used to call the early C206/207 mufflers "death cones"....They had little China Hat shaped cones inside that failed and completely blocked the tail pipe....50% power loss in an instant. Killed quite a few people before they changed the design...

  17. #17
    jr.hammack's Avatar
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    steve,get the dodge hot rod,slight h.p. gain,done 3 160 h.p., gained at least 90-100 r.p.m on the change,didn't have to cut up a $850.00 bottom cowl either!!!!
    don't be a cheap a$$ ;like me.

    jr.
    Last edited by jr.hammack; 03-23-2015 at 01:33 AM. Reason: spelling

  18. #18
    Eddie Foy's Avatar
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    Do the Hot Rod and the Sutton exit in the stock location?

    Eddie
    "Put out my hand and touched the face of God!"

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  20. #20
    RaisedByWolves's Avatar
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    Hot rod is the same as stock, just gutted inside and has a bigger tailpipe. Just the muffler. Quicker and easier to install. Sutton is completely new, and is pictured above. You have to cut a new hole in the cowling.

  21. #21
    WhiskeyMike's Avatar
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    Anyone know if there is a simple way to use the Hot Rod muffler on a Pacer?

  22. #22

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    Hot Rod and let the lake pipes roar! And I'm sure Tom would loan you his...
    Last edited by OLDCROWE; 03-23-2015 at 10:52 AM.

  23. #23
    hotrod180's Avatar
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    I've heard of a number of power-loss problems due to the flame tubes failing, and the resultant "banana in the tailpipe" (remember Beverly Hills Cop?) Why don't all muffler mfr's go the tubeless route a la the hot rod muffler? Or else go super-heavy-duty on the tube?
    Cessna Skywagon-- accept no substitute!

  24. #24

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    I got a Hot Rod muffler,like it but, you will need good headsets , and you can forget about sneaking up on your neighbors to do sneak attacks

  25. #25
    nanook's Avatar
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    I'd like to hear a before and after report on cabin heat output with the Hot Rod Muffler.....

  26. #26
    Eddie Foy's Avatar
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    I dont want a louder exhaust. I want one that has no AD. Maybe the Atlee Dodge Heavy duty?

    Eddie
    "Put out my hand and touched the face of God!"

  27. #27
    Cubonaut875 SchulerJL's Avatar
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    The Hot Rod muffler definitely sounds like a Harley of the sky, has very distinctive sound in the air. Loud even with my Lightspeed Zulu II's, but no AD and slightly better power -at least it sounds like it! Heat is better or no worse than stock. Had mine for a couple of years, I'm probably even now after two annuals. It took hours of labor to do a real inspection on the stock muffler.

  28. #28

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    I put the hot rod muffler on last year. No change in heat output (I do have heat robber also). It is loud, my friends say they can tell my cub just from the sound. I do get a buffet from the exhaust around 2100-2300 rpm. I think it is lighter than a stock one. I wanted it because it is one less thing to go wrong and spoil my day. My flame tube looked like Steve's. Had to trim a bit of the lower lip for it to fit.

    DENNY

  29. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by nanook View Post
    I'd like to hear a before and after report on cabin heat output with the Hot Rod Muffler.....
    I didn't notice any difference with an all new installation... I'm in Oklahoma but did fly it in high single digit temps and it worked well.
    Remember, These are the Good old Days!

  30. #30
    nanook's Avatar
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    Thanks, that is good to know. I'm getting to where I don't want to fly below single digits...

  31. #31
    RaisedByWolves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nanook View Post
    Thanks, that is good to know. I'm getting to where I don't want to fly below single digits...
    Flown around zero, heat was good, the drafts from the door and window were not. I need to make some kind of deflector, as one foot is on fire while the other is frozen.

  32. #32

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    Order a scat hose flange from Spruce and unstall it behind the trim ring for the heater box (on the inside of the firewall). It will stick out about 1.5-2" and works as a straitening vane. Works wonders and you can add a short piece of hose if you need/want more.

  33. #33
    aktango58's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OLDCROWE View Post
    I didn't notice any difference with an all new installation... I'm in Oklahoma but did fly it in high single digit temps and it worked well.
    I got to the point with mine I would take the scat off the heat box in the summer because it was so hot. Winter here, never had an issue, lots of heat.
    I don't know where you've been me lad, but I see you won first Prize!

  34. #34
    Cubswede's Avatar
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    Same problem here with stock (nicocraft) muffler. Did only get 2200static. Had to cut it open to see how the inside looked like. As you can see in one of the pictures, the muffler bail has come loose and slipped down the tailpipe long enough not to do its job..
    replaced with used serviceable stock muffler due to shortage from aircraft spruce..
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  35. #35
    Eddie Foy's Avatar
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    Received my Sutton last week. It goes on next week after Sun n Fun.

    Eddie
    "Put out my hand and touched the face of God!"

  36. #36
    www.SkupTech.com mike mcs repair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cubswede View Post
    .. the muffler bail has come loose and slipped down the tailpipe long enough not to do its job..
    ...
    wow, they forgot to weld the bail in???? bad on them!

    since you are buying consider, a hot rod Atlee muffler/shroud kit/STC..

    http://www.fadodge.com/index.php?option=com_djcatalog2&view=item&id=48%3A hot-rod-muffler&cid=6%3Aexhaustsystem&Itemid=53


    AVERAGE RPM INCREASE IS 30-65 RPM
    - MOST AIRCRAFT HAVE A SLIGHT RATE OF CLIMB INCREASE
    - EGT SLIGHTLY LOWER
    - OIL TEMP SLIGHTLY LOWER
    - NO MODIFICATIONS TO COWLING OR STACKS ARE NEEDED
    - FAA DIRECT REPLACEMENT
    - NO A.D. NOTE MUFFLER COMES WITH FAA LETTER STATING MUFFLER
    IS AN ALTERNATIVE MEANS OF COMPLIANCE TO THE A.D.
    - SOUND SLIGHTLY LOUDER/DEEPER
    - 2 PIECE SHROUD-TAILPIPE CLAMP-TAILPIPE SUPPORT ROD ALL INCLUDED

  37. #37
    RaisedByWolves's Avatar
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    Damn, that's crazy. That's the reason to get rid of the stock muffler

  38. #38
    Cubswede's Avatar
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    Well, the welds for the bails is present. Must have chaken loose or something. Next time I have a look at the muffler I will pull the bail out and look for evidence of welds.
    yes, for my project I will consider the FA dodge muffler. This was on dad's cub.

  39. #39
    nanook's Avatar
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    It looks like the bail is in the tail pipe...maybe mounted flush or below opening. Needs to be slightly above opening to prevent blockage. How much time was on this muffler?

  40. #40
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    New Cub Crafters Top Cubs with 281 hrs are not immune to muffler breakage either.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Steve Pierce

    Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects.
    Will Rogers
    Thanks flylowslow, Jonnyo thanked for this post

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