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Thread: Tail brace wires

  1. #1

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    Tail brace wires

    I looked all over and the search function kept bring up everything but what i needed.

    In an attempt to clean up the plane. What is the verdict on streamlined tail brace wire?

    Does it make any bit of a speed difference?

    Anything against using stainless mine are painted and im seeing discoloration from corrosion. just seems like a pain to keep painting them?

  2. #2
    cubdriver2's Avatar
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    I've got them on my J4, they are more maintence then the round ones, you need to keep checking them for nicks and I have to paint them every year, do they let you go faster, I would say yes, can you measure the difference ? not sure.

    Glenn

  3. #3
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    We put 31" Bushwheels on our airplanes, I don't think a set of streamlined wires vs. round wires are going to make much difference. You also have to inspect for nicks per the AD as well. One less AD time to worry about is enough for me.
    Steve Pierce

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  4. #4

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    sold round wires it is, I was unaware of an ad for nicks. Any problems going stainless?

  5. #5
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    Stainless is good, no rust.
    Steve Pierce

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    Will Rogers

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    www.SkupTech.com mike mcs repair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by swoeric
    ... I was unaware of an ad for nicks. ...

  7. #7

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    Does anyone sell just the clevises or pieces that the bolts go through for the brace wires?

  8. #8
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    Univair does. I got one today for less than $20. Order the part number in the catalog for stainless. If you order the one in the PA18 parts manual you will get old stock painted steel for $17.
    Steve Pierce

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  9. #9
    Bill Rusk's Avatar
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    I don't disagree with Steve but just for your info, here is a short, 6 min video of the difference in drag between a round wire and streamlined wire. It is absolutely fascinating. Aerodynamics is just so cool....

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ftq8jTQ8ANE

    Bill
    Very Blessed.

  10. #10

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    Steve, ive seen 2 kinds. One where the clevis with the bolt hole is on the brace wire itself,one piece, its just been angled. This is what i have and am looking for in stainless. And others ive seen on a lot of cubs are a straight clevis on the wire itself and another small bracket thats flat thats been angled abit to fit is used. I dont have a current Univair catalog, but in this older catalog they show the kind im using. Thats what your saying they have in stainless? They dont list the parts seperate in this older issue. doug

  11. #11
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    I have the drawings for two types of tail brace wires. The more common ones are depicted in the PA18 parts manual and the Univair catalog and are available in stainless. The earlier style I have only seen a few times and have not seen any replacement parts. They are made like a Champ with forked rod ends held on a steel bracket with a clevis pin and cotter pin.
    Steve Pierce

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    skukum12's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Pierce View Post
    Univair does. I got one today for less than $20. Order the part number in the catalog for stainless. If you order the one in the PA18 parts manual you will get old stock painted steel for $17.
    Hi Steve, do you have a Univair part #? I have searched their website many times for many items and always come up empty. Thanks, Joe.
    "Always looking up"

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    top 2 40521-08, 2 on top of stab 40521-07, 2 under stab 40521-09, and bottom 2 40531-00. these are the old numbers in the parts catalog for reference. and stainless ones in same order 61341-003, 61341-002, 61341-004, 61340-000. check me on this though.
    Last edited by tempdoug; 09-02-2012 at 07:25 AM.

  14. #14
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    The new stainless steel fittings from Univair are as follows:
    Top Wire, Upper Clevis (replaces 40521-008 ) U61341-003 $23.08
    Top wire, Lower Clevis (replaces 40521-007) U61341-002 $31.51
    Bottom Wire, Upper Clevis (replaces 40521-009) U61341-004 $33.23
    Bottom Wire, Lower Clevis (replaces 40521-010) U61341-000 $30.51
    Square Washer U81102-002 $4.21

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Steve Pierce

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    Will Rogers

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    skukum12's Avatar
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    Perfect, thank you boys, Joe
    "Always looking up"

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    they have kit that inclues every thing

  17. #17
    Laz's Avatar
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    I bought a complete set of stainless wires and brackets from DE in Florida. The price was very reasonable, although I can't remember what I was
    Laz

  18. #18
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laz View Post
    I bought a complete set of stainless wires and brackets from DE in Florida. The price was very reasonable, although I can't remember what I was
    Laz
    Certified or Experimental?
    Steve Pierce

    Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects.
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  19. #19
    Laz's Avatar
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    I'm experimental, but check their website.
    I don't have an address or phone # with me right now(traveling). But I think they are still D&E?

  20. #20
    Laz's Avatar
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    Steve
    Found them at AC spruce.
    Experimental only!

    Sorry, since I left the certified word, I never looked back
    Laz

  21. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Pierce View Post
    The new stainless steel fittings from Univair are as follows:
    Top Wire, Upper Clevis (replaces 40521-008 ) U61341-003 $23.08
    Top wire, Lower Clevis (replaces 40521-007) U61341-002 $31.51
    Bottom Wire, Upper Clevis (replaces 40521-009) U61341-004 $33.23
    Bottom Wire, Lower Clevis (replaces 40521-010) U61341-000 $30.51
    Square Washer U81102-002 $4.21

    Aren't the stainless steel wire clevis required to comply with the AD for changing to round tail brace wires? Univair told me that they changed to Stainless Steel when that AD came out. I see Dakota Cub sells these wire clevis much cheaper so I'm assuming that they are steel. Which clevis is needed, the steel or stainless steel? Which is preferred???

  22. #22
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    Dakota'a are stainless. Stainless or steel are both acceptable but the steel, even when primed and painted eventually rust. Stainless doesn't and I have not seen any issues with them unless the special washer is not installed under the bolt and nut.
    Steve Pierce

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  23. #23

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    Got it. Thanks for the quick reply Steve.

    Kevin

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    By special washer you mean the ferrule or bushing that allows rotation of the clevis? I have seen these missing on quite a few Cubs, including one I bought recently. The previous mechanic, realizing that the bolt was kind of sloppy in the clevis, simply drilled the stabilizer for the next size bolt. Yow!

  25. #25
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    No, the square radius washer U81102-002 at the vertical fin.
    Steve Pierce

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  26. #26
    texmex's Avatar
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    The stainless steel clevis is excellent but the nipple and nut, shown to the right side of the photo above, are brass (I think). I had mine nickle platted by dodgy brothers, to give it the stainless look. Mine are looking ordinary only after a few years. What does everyone else do with theirs?

    If you haven't pulled your wires apart ever I'd recommend it. A few of mine at the time, were well worn.

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    Regarding post #1 asking about streamline tail wires vs round, I went to our local hobby store and found small aluminum streamline tubing in 3ft. Sections and slid them over the original round wires. I placed a small section of heat shrink at the top ends to hold it in place. The bottoms were left open in case any water gets in. So far (180) hrs, they have stayed in place, and I know in my mind they have to help the speed just a little. They have been a good conversation item any time someone looks at them. Sorry I don't have a picture of them, but I think they are a common item at a good hobby store. Larry v.

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    Cool idea. My curiosity be piqued, do the wires & tail shake less with the streamlines installed? Probably need a GoPro pointed backwards or a chase plane to see tho.

  29. #29

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    I don't notice any tail shake back there. You can google K & S streamline aluminum tubing and see what it looks like, prices etc. Larry v.

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    Steve
    How many square washers are required in a tail assembly are they only for the vertical fin?
    Thks

  31. #31
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by C-YQK View Post
    Steve
    How many square washers are required in a tail assembly are they only for the vertical fin?
    Thks
    Yes, only the two on the vertical fin because of the steeper angles. I have seen these cracked at the radius a few times when the waashers were not installed.
    Steve Pierce

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    Thanks Steve u da man!!!

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    Binty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by texmex View Post
    The stainless steel clevis is excellent but the nipple and nut, shown to the right side of the photo above, are brass (I think). I had mine nickle platted by dodgy brothers, to give it the stainless look. Mine are looking ordinary only after a few years. What does everyone else do with theirs?

    If you haven't pulled your wires apart ever I'd recommend it. A few of mine at the time, were well worn.
    Id 2nd this advice... As I recorded in an earlier post (search "Nipples and Safety") ours were in bad shape too. There are not many 'Jesus Nuts' on the Cub but I reckon these are one such example. To check these properly, they require dis-assembly. I have a feeling the dis-assembly part is often overlooked on inspections- It certainly was on ours.
    If you force it, it will fit

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Rusk View Post
    I don't disagree with Steve but just for your info, here is a short, 6 min video of the difference in drag between a round wire and streamlined wire. It is absolutely fascinating. Aerodynamics is just so cool....

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ftq8jTQ8ANE

    Bill
    Fascinating film! I never thought it would make a magnitude 9 difference?!! I think iv just discovered why my Climb performance has been KILLED after installing 29" ABWs
    If you force it, it will fit

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by SD cubman View Post
    Regarding post #1 asking about streamline tail wires vs round, I went to our local hobby store and found small aluminum streamline tubing in 3ft. Sections and slid them over the original round wires. I placed a small section of heat shrink at the top ends to hold it in place. The bottoms were left open in case any water gets in. So far (180) hrs, they have stayed in place, and I know in my mind they have to help the speed just a little. They have been a good conversation item any time someone looks at them. Sorry I don't have a picture of them, but I think they are a common item at a good hobby store. Larry v.
    About 18 years ago I found some PVC airfoil shaped snap together fairings that were being pushed to the hang glider and ultralight boys for drag reduction. As it was designed for 3/32 cable, and that's what my Rans S-7 at the time used for tail bracing, it seemed like a natural to try it. After carefully fitting it, doing a real good job and liking how it could swivel a bit to find its best AOA, I test flew it. As I got above 50 mph, severe flutter started in, I could feel it in the stick. I looked back there and the cables were a blur. They came off for good a minute later, too bad as for sure reducing drag anytime I can is a good thing. Round stainless is what they use now back there, maybe I'll try the hobby shop route and give it another shot.

  36. #36
    www.SkupTech.com mike mcs repair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by courierguy View Post
    ..As I got above 50 mph, severe flutter started in, I could feel it in the stick. I looked back there and the cables were a blur. They came off for good a minute later,..
    too neutral of a AOA position?, hunting????

  37. #37
    courierguy's Avatar
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    Yes, something like that I guess. It just freaked me out so off they came. SD Cubman has me getting fired up about the idea again though! Just because there is no airspeed noticeable difference doesn't mean it isn't worth it. I like the "stick it out the car window or bed of the pickup while going 80 mph" concept of drag or lack of affirmation. I first did that 30+ years ago (40 mph) with a round piece of tube that we used for the kingpost on hang gliders and it damn near ripped my arm out of the socket. After slipping a soft foam airfoil fairing over it someone was making back then, the difference was dramatic. More recenty I did the same thing when I converted the RANS to Cub style gear, trying to decide whether to fair and cover it (note, not just cover, but also fair the TE) and again, the difference was dramatic.

    I am a few days away from taking the 29" Airstreaks off and putting the 8:00's on (the biggest that work with my Datum retract skis) and usually I make a flight just to see if there is any difference in speed with the small tires. None at all, yeah right, I wish!

  38. #38
    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    courierguy, What mike says above coupled with the tension of the cables could have been the trouble. Try again with the cables tightened a bit more and use some RTV at the upper end to increase the resistance of the fairings to flutter.
    N1PA

  39. #39
    courierguy's Avatar
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    Yeah, I was just thinking the same thing.....I will pursue it again. This time with the K & S stuff. Thanks Larry.

    Just did a search for K & S, I guess I don't understand how they size it. They don't specify what the I.D. is, they do call out various sizes but it's not clear if that's the overall size, I.D., or whatever. It's cheap enough, that's good. I'll run down to an local hoby shop and get educated.

    BTW, I got a bit over 2 hrs. dead stick ridge soaring this year, several 10 or 15 minute flights, one an hour, so I appreciate any drag reduction probably more then most.
    Last edited by courierguy; 11-23-2015 at 10:41 AM.

  40. #40
    cubdriver2's Avatar
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    I still have original streamlined wires on my J4 tail, just like the flying wires on a biplane they need to be a few degrees off center to keep them loaded so they don't flutter

    Glenn

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