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Thread: Tail brace wires

  1. #41

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    Steve
    Got the washers back from Univar and they are not bent but are just square flat washers
    Did I miss something??
    Gary

  2. #42
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    Sorry Gary, I quoted you the wrong part number. U81102-002 is the square washer under the brass barrel that tightens the wire.. What you need is 40131-000. Sorry about that, it is item 10 on figure 23 in the parts manual. Send me an address and I will send you a pair.
    Steve Pierce

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  3. #43

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    Thks Steve

  4. #44
    Kodiakmack's Avatar
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    Hey all,
    I'm looking to go to the round wires. As a -12 with the -18 flap/tail conversion I'm looking for guidance in finding the correct part numbers, and would really love to find a kit with everything in stainless. Help appreciated as always!
    HAVE FUN. DON'T DIE.

  5. #45
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    Call Dakota Cub (605) 757-6628 DC41031-KIT . Found a broken clevis on a friends Clipper at Oshkosh and the DC guys and gal loaned us the tools and gave us a new clevis to get him home safely.
    Steve Pierce

    Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects.
    Will Rogers
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  6. #46
    Kodiakmack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Pierce View Post
    Call Dakota Cub (605) 757-6628 DC41031-KIT . Found a broken clevis on a friends Clipper at Oshkosh and the DC guys and gal loaned us the tools and gave us a new clevis to get him home safely.
    Thank you Steve.
    HAVE FUN. DON'T DIE.

  7. #47
    courierguy's Avatar
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    Nothing like reading a post and getting all fired up to make a comment....only to see you already did, 6 years previous!

    I never did follow up on trying to streamline mine on the S-7 again, after my bad experience with the PVC stuff (not that the type of material was the cause of the flutter), but most likely the fact that I left it to "freewheel", thinking it would auto find it's best location. This thread has inspired me to try it again, and this time I'll shoot a little goop of some sort on the ends (probably Lexal, my go to goop these days, an adhesive caulk of sorts that stays crystal clear, and is specifically made (among other uses) for adhering different types of plastics to each other. Though I will try the aluminum streamline stuff this time.

    Found this:
    The big advantage of this plastic stuff is how it can simply slip over the rods, then be secured. https://antisplataero.com/
    Last edited by courierguy; 08-15-2021 at 02:22 PM.

  8. #48

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    Quote Originally Posted by courierguy View Post
    Nothing like reading a post and getting all fired up to make a comment....only to see you already did, 6 years previous!

    I never did follow up on trying to streamline mine on the S-7 again, after my bad experience with the PVC stuff (not that the type of material was the cause of the flutter), but most likely the fact that I left it to "freewheel", thinking it would auto find it's best location. This thread has inspired me to try it again, and this time I'll shoot a little goop of some sort on the ends (probably Lexal, my go to goop these days, an adhesive caulk of sorts that stays crystal clear, and is specifically made (among other uses) for adhering different types of plastics to each other. Though I will try the aluminum streamline stuff this time.

    Found this:
    The big advantage of this plastic stuff is how it can simply slip over the rods, then be secured. https://antisplataero.com/
    Things tend to flutter when the CG is behind the hinge point.

    To prevent flutter on my ailerons and my elevator I balance them with lead. When I read your post #37, I wondered if flutter might not be an issue. It seems to me like if you somehow added weight to the leading edge of the streamline tubing then it would have natural flutter resistance. Maybe a piece of 1/8" diameter solder put in the leading edge of the streamline tubing?

  9. #49
    courierguy's Avatar
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    Since these fairings are apparently used by the go fast RV crowd, amongst others, it would seem that fixing them into place is adequate. I would hoist the tail up to a flying attitude, and then just eyeball them into place while the goop sets. I'd take the test flight seriously. I have about 18' of round rod that could be faired, and while I was at it I'd fair my com antenna with the scraps. I emailed him to see what lengths it comes in, I am willing to give it a shot, screw the money, it's for the plane! I need to tell him about my previous experience, and get his take on why it happened.
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  10. #50
    courierguy's Avatar
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    No response to my email, several days later, from antisplateaero. I may call but that seems so 20 th. century. I never added up my total hor stab bracing lengths before, 18' of round rod, about the only round stuff left exposed to the airflow, besides the Airstreaks.
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  11. #51
    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by courierguy View Post
    Since these fairings are apparently used by the go fast RV crowd, amongst others, it would seem that fixing them into place is adequate. I would hoist the tail up to a flying attitude, and then just eyeball them into place while the goop sets. I'd take the test flight seriously. I have about 18' of round rod that could be faired, and while I was at it I'd fair my com antenna with the scraps. I emailed him to see what lengths it comes in, I am willing to give it a shot, screw the money, it's for the plane! I need to tell him about my previous experience, and get his take on why it happened.
    Try gluing balsa wood to your round wires. Here are some trailing edge sections. $3.84 will get you 18' of faired balsa.
    https://www.nationalbalsa.com/traili...p/181236te.htm
    N1PA

  12. #52
    courierguy's Avatar
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    Now you tell me! Just ordered.
    That's ok, my plane is so trouble free and gives me so much enjoyment, throwing money at it now and then doesn't bother me. Like buying flowers for an already happy wife.

  13. #53
    courierguy's Avatar
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    Got them installed, and I think I may have gained 5 mph in cruise. Then again, I haven't flow it yet, so it could just be wishful thinking! They pass the "I can't see it while flying so don't care" visual test anyway. Blue tape holds while the Lexal sets up. I paid for 6 3' lengths, he has the stuff in 5' lengths only, but sent the scraps along gratis, so I did my com antenna also. So about 19' of round rod, now faired. I'm driving into town today and will be on the interstate, and will do the aero test of setting the cruise control at 80 mph, and then holding a similar size rod out in the breeze, then will slip the fairing on it and see if I get pulled over for inattentive driving.
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  14. #54
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    You missed the lower rear wire.
    N1PA

  15. #55
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    My lower rear struts were not missed, but as I did a mod back there I won't go into, the original struts didn't have enough adjustment to work. So I went back to what the earlier S-7's used, and as an old hang glider and ultralight pilot, am pretty comfortable with, good old 7x7 3/32 cable. It's never let me down. Ha ha. Didn't think the fairing were applicable for it's smaller size, point being.

    Got 10 hours or so on it now since installed. Figured a top speed run would be best to show any difference, so made a note of the unfaired top speed, and the ambient conditions first. Then, after the install, was able to replicate the same conditions, EXCEPT for the OAT being 6 degrees higher..... and the top speed was EXACTLY the same. So, either they "don't work", or they work a little, but beyond what my ASI could show. The unknown, to me anyway, is what difference my test conditions and indicated speed made with a 6 degree high temp difference? I would be thrilled if I could affirm a solid 1 MPH ind. speed improvement, could the 6 degree higher temp in the after installed test account for enough variance that I can claim that?

    Don't know.... but I'm not taking them off, no flutter anyway or other adverse effects, and the weight of them is nothing. I've frittered away more money then the approximately $250.00 they cost (with freight) on flying related gizmos before, without losing any sleep over it, and at least now I can rest easy every round thing on the plane is faired. Meanwhile, when other S-7 pilots remark on them, I'll claim a solid 5 mph speed increase just to mess with them.

  16. #56

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    Really. I cannot measure the difference wheel pants on or off my Decathlon, and at 120 kts speed fairings are a lot more effective than at a Cub-like 80. We do have streamline tail wires on the J4, and while my partner disagrees, I maintain it is at least 10 mph faster than the J3 (with or without wheel pants). Probably all that is due to the wires, huh?
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  17. #57
    courierguy's Avatar
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    It HAS TO help a little bit is my thinking, even if it's not apparent on the ASI, it gives me a warm fuzzy feeling, even if it's half a MPH, and a tiny bit more range/duration/glide. I am trying to replicate the same OAT temp for another test, rather than 6 degrees warmer, to see what effect that has, if any, on my top indicated speed, which you'll notice I don't bother to state, I have my pride.
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  18. #58
    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bob turner View Post
    I maintain it is at least 10 mph faster than the J3 (with or without wheel pants). Probably all that is due to the wires, huh?
    I suggest it is due to the wider fuselage. Remember, a Blimp is supposed to be the most efficient aerodynamic shape. The J-4 is a faired out J-3.
    N1PA

  19. #59
    courierguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skywagon8a View Post
    I suggest it is due to the wider fuselage. Remember, a Blimp is supposed to be the most efficient aerodynamic shape. The J-4 is a faired out J-3.
    The RANS S-20, a side by side design, uses the exact same wing as my S-7, you can imagine my chagrin when word filtered back that the chubby 20 is a bit faster than my svelte 7.

  20. #60

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    I've also heard that a widebody super cub is a bit fastet than a standard cub for this reason. Makes me wonder why anyone builds a standard width cub anymore...?

  21. #61
    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    As is a PA-12 and J-5 fatter and faster than a Cub. Though they do not have the same horsepower. An 85 hp J-5 is faster then a J-3 and has a very similar take off and lading performance.
    N1PA
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  22. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by skywagon8a View Post
    As is a PA-12 and J-5 fatter and faster than a Cub. Though they do not have the same horsepower. An 85 hp J-5 is faster then a J-3 and has a very similar take off and lading performance.
    Different AOI also

    Glenn
    "Optimism is going after Moby Dick in a rowboat and taking the tartar sauce with you!"

  23. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by cubdriver2 View Post
    Different AOI also

    Glenn
    While I haven't checked, I would guess they fly at the same angle of attack. So that would tell us to look elsewhere for the drag reduction.
    N1PA

  24. #64

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    Angle of incidence is different. The cub has a much higher empennage at the same angle of attack. Some say this is all of the speed differential. Others say the wider fuselage is the key. I have no idea . . .

  25. #65
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    Part of the original -12's speed advantage is the landing gear configuration. Much less stuff hanging out in the prop wash. Also had nice fairings at gear and struts. Mine even had wheel pants when I bought it - -
    Gordon

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  26. #66

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    A taylorcraft and a chief are faster in cruise with a 65 than a cub or champ because of the fuselage width... And they're all slow relatively

  27. #67

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    A taylorcraft and a chief are faster in cruise with a 65 than a cub or champ because of the fuselage width... And there all slow relatively<br><br>

  28. #68
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    When considering speed think about a fish's shape and streamlined fins. Glides under minimum power in a more viscous medium. When done eat.

    Gary

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