Gordon Misch
MEMBER
Toledo, Wa (KTDO)
Mine was, and no boulder. Just a huge stump8)
Steve's Gascolator
- Thread starter Tundratech
- Start date
SinCityJets
Registered User
Which Gascolator would you use for the 180hp Titan??
Thank you!
Chad
Thank you!
Chad
Steve's Aircraft (Brian)
FRIEND
White City, Oregon
Have not seen one sheared off but have seen it wrapped under the front lower firewall tube... have pics of it on my website...
Brian
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Steve's Aircraft (Brian)
FRIEND
White City, Oregon
If you are running a stock fuel system(3/8 fuel lines) then the standard SA3-00 model that is approved on almost all of the Pipers from the J3 to the Aztecs will flow more than enough fuel to power the Titan...
If for some reason you have it modified to 1/2 inch lines than a SA3-10 is the unit of choice..
Bowl sizing only has to do with sediment capacity for main tanks... FAA regulation calls for 1oz for every 20 gallons of main tank fuel... we have two bowl sizes, 3 oz and 4 oz... the 3 is good up to 60 gallons and the 4 up to 80 gallons... so those guys with Atlee Dodge tanks need to have the 4oz SA3-00-A model Gascolator to comply with that regulation...
Thanks
Brian
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SinCityJets
Registered User
Thank you, Brian
Gordon Misch
MEMBER
Toledo, Wa (KTDO)
Nope, but badly bruised ego, and a dislocated toe. Thank you, shoulder harnesses!
Well, you know...those who have and those that will.
Binty
Registered User
South Island, New Zealand
Not sure of the Regs for Ag aircraft in the US... but here in NZ we have a mandate to install an 'armor plate' around the Gascolator (on Ag Cubs) to prevent it being damaged/swiped off. I swapped mine out with a Steves and couldn't believe it when I weighed the old setup... 2lbs?!!
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TurboBeaver
Registered User
Northern Maine
Warning LONG post. ( But might save your life)
Discloser: We are NOT affiliated with Steves in anyway.
We recently had a big problem with an original Piper gascolator, that could have ended horribly, about 30 mins into a flight:
Here is the story:
About a half hour into a flight, all of a sudden I thought I could smell fuel ???? Ok, So my first thought ,was to look at trailing edges for fuel siphoning off top of wing from a gas cap coming off?? Nope...Ruptured tank ?? My 12 still has an original tank on left side....... Within another minute or so the smell got worse and I am now frantically watching down by the fuel selectors, for a leak inside the cabin; but again saw nothing???? Now about then my rear seat passenger, says to me " Hey do you smell fuel ???? Its quite strong here in the back seat". I confirmed that I did ,and felt it was getting worse...........quickly.
Since we were on skis, and we now have 8-12" of ice in most places, around Northern Maine ; we were only about a few minutes from a pond, where I could land. ( You may NOT have all these options; when yours fails) Upon a quick check of the Gascolator, we could see fuel pouring out of the back side of it BIG time. So after a bit of fiddling I was able to slow it down 90% but not compleatly. ( I hand saftey wired directly from the middle of one bail to the other right around the middle of the bowl to make dam sure it could not come out at housing again!)We then TO and flew straight home; where it became apparent that how it was safety wired ,from the back bail wire,,around to front carb line fitting,
then over to other bail, was NOT tight enough from the back baik wire: and in approximately 35 hours, had somehow sliped around that radius corner, then onto the horizontal part of the bail, allowing it to pop out enough, to allowing the bowl to cant enough, to let fuel start to pour out......... Now after a proper inspection; a few things emerged. The bail has been over
tightened so many times over the years it has been bent and bowed ,and shows obvious signs of the ends having been straighten.
The amount of penetration the bail protrudes into the housing( .150 ???) is actually adversely effected if that angle isnt the 90 degrees as it should be. IF you saftey to the front fitting; and as you pull up tight right under the corners of the bail and it was possible in this case; for the safety wire because of the angle to the front fitting to somehow vibrate around that radius and allow the bail to begin to come out.........
Verdict: The design is a 'very poor one' even by Model T or tractor standards.It is almost certain these old bail Gascolators , "would "never be approved" in todays FAA environment. After 70 years of idiots over tightening them,
And bail wires being restraightened many times, they are basically dangerous "junk" at this point in time. If your drain valve is pointed outwards, so you dont have to lift your cowling to drain it,
A huge percentage will weep fuel, just fron pushing sidewise on the drain valve!
Conclusion:
Kolher tryed to address this problem many years ago with a bail system that was made from flat stock that was riveted at the top so it could NOT come out
And only required the tightening nut be saftey wired. You hardly ever see them, as they cost double what these old "mickey mouse" ones were at the time........
The inherent design of a bailess Gascolator that the bowl
is threaded into the housing is " Light Years" BETTER in all ways. Probably 100 times safer??all things considered.Do yourself a big favor; and buy yourself a Steves Gascolator ; before you have the same thing happen to you, that happened to me ! Forget about just loosing just the plane: This could easily end up, with you loosing your life!
E
Discloser: We are NOT affiliated with Steves in anyway.
We recently had a big problem with an original Piper gascolator, that could have ended horribly, about 30 mins into a flight:
Here is the story:
About a half hour into a flight, all of a sudden I thought I could smell fuel ???? Ok, So my first thought ,was to look at trailing edges for fuel siphoning off top of wing from a gas cap coming off?? Nope...Ruptured tank ?? My 12 still has an original tank on left side....... Within another minute or so the smell got worse and I am now frantically watching down by the fuel selectors, for a leak inside the cabin; but again saw nothing???? Now about then my rear seat passenger, says to me " Hey do you smell fuel ???? Its quite strong here in the back seat". I confirmed that I did ,and felt it was getting worse...........quickly.
Since we were on skis, and we now have 8-12" of ice in most places, around Northern Maine ; we were only about a few minutes from a pond, where I could land. ( You may NOT have all these options; when yours fails) Upon a quick check of the Gascolator, we could see fuel pouring out of the back side of it BIG time. So after a bit of fiddling I was able to slow it down 90% but not compleatly. ( I hand saftey wired directly from the middle of one bail to the other right around the middle of the bowl to make dam sure it could not come out at housing again!)We then TO and flew straight home; where it became apparent that how it was safety wired ,from the back bail wire,,around to front carb line fitting,
then over to other bail, was NOT tight enough from the back baik wire: and in approximately 35 hours, had somehow sliped around that radius corner, then onto the horizontal part of the bail, allowing it to pop out enough, to allowing the bowl to cant enough, to let fuel start to pour out......... Now after a proper inspection; a few things emerged. The bail has been over
tightened so many times over the years it has been bent and bowed ,and shows obvious signs of the ends having been straighten.
The amount of penetration the bail protrudes into the housing( .150 ???) is actually adversely effected if that angle isnt the 90 degrees as it should be. IF you saftey to the front fitting; and as you pull up tight right under the corners of the bail and it was possible in this case; for the safety wire because of the angle to the front fitting to somehow vibrate around that radius and allow the bail to begin to come out.........
Verdict: The design is a 'very poor one' even by Model T or tractor standards.It is almost certain these old bail Gascolators , "would "never be approved" in todays FAA environment. After 70 years of idiots over tightening them,
And bail wires being restraightened many times, they are basically dangerous "junk" at this point in time. If your drain valve is pointed outwards, so you dont have to lift your cowling to drain it,
A huge percentage will weep fuel, just fron pushing sidewise on the drain valve!
Conclusion:
Kolher tryed to address this problem many years ago with a bail system that was made from flat stock that was riveted at the top so it could NOT come out
And only required the tightening nut be saftey wired. You hardly ever see them, as they cost double what these old "mickey mouse" ones were at the time........
The inherent design of a bailess Gascolator that the bowl
is threaded into the housing is " Light Years" BETTER in all ways. Probably 100 times safer??all things considered.Do yourself a big favor; and buy yourself a Steves Gascolator ; before you have the same thing happen to you, that happened to me ! Forget about just loosing just the plane: This could easily end up, with you loosing your life!
E
Attachments
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Steve Pierce
BENEFACTOR
Graham, TX
I hate those original gascolators for this reason. Had an Extra 300 or a CAP232 loose the bail and start pissing fuel. Luckily it was a short aerobatic flight. This Piper Service Letter covers how to safety wire the original gascolator if you still have it.
TurboBeaver
Registered User
Northern Maine
Steve P thanks for posting that service link. Anyone still inspecting these hopeless bail gascolators should use this service letter method for sure! No doubt if they are brand new, with a brand new gasket ,and have never been overtightened,.they did work. However my 70 year old one is totally worn out and obviously NOT safe in my estimation....... There will be a new one on there this week!
There are lots of things that can bite ya, dont let it be; a "pork rind" gascolator!:evil:
Thanks for all the likes everyone!
There are lots of things that can bite ya, dont let it be; a "pork rind" gascolator!:evil:
Thanks for all the likes everyone!
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Steve's Aircraft (Brian)
FRIEND
White City, Oregon
I have several stories like the one you posted of in flight wire bail failures from lucky customers that were able to land safely after the propeller stopped making wind... First guy was a Super Cub in Main that landed in a field... Last one was a guy flying a RG-PA-28 out of Tahoe with his kids and was barely able to make it back to the airport... Both were wire bail failures...
Makes me wonder how many ATSB reports list unknown engine failures that resulted in pilot and passengers not "walking" away from the scene of the crash..
Thank you everyone for your business and kind words about my product....
Brian.
Makes me wonder how many ATSB reports list unknown engine failures that resulted in pilot and passengers not "walking" away from the scene of the crash..
Thank you everyone for your business and kind words about my product....
Brian.
BC12D-4-85
SPONSOR
Fairbanks, AK.
I had one on an earlier Piper with a chipped edge glass bowl. Maintenance put it on a belt sander to smooth out the ding and reinstalled. I wasn't aware of the change until it cracked and had to be replaced. Slow leak thankfully. It was entertaining to watch the fuel boil during winter pre-heating but other than that unsafe.
Gary
Gary
skukum12
MEMBER
The Last Frontier
Coming back from a caribou hunt, still a fairly green pilot and it was pitch black outside. Flight of two and we couldn't find Wolf Lake(not lighted yet, tired, not yet familiar enough with the area). Decided to bag it and head to known pasture, Birchwood. We landed, borrowed a couple tie downs, secured a ride home, etc.
Came back to pick up the birds the next day and notice the asphalt wet and chewed up under the firewall. Glass gascolator was wet. When I poked it gently with my finger, fuel began SPRAYING out. What a reminder about fuel pressure and how well a gravity feed system really works.
"Repaired" it for the quick flight home and had a Steves on order probably that day. Installed one in the 180 as well and never looked back. Every once in a while I think of that ol' glasser spraying fuel under the hood with the slightest turbulence or rough landing and shiver.
Steves gasolator is one of those mods that is right up there with X braces, bushwheels, take off props and extended gear. And not everyone needs these last three....
Came back to pick up the birds the next day and notice the asphalt wet and chewed up under the firewall. Glass gascolator was wet. When I poked it gently with my finger, fuel began SPRAYING out. What a reminder about fuel pressure and how well a gravity feed system really works.
"Repaired" it for the quick flight home and had a Steves on order probably that day. Installed one in the 180 as well and never looked back. Every once in a while I think of that ol' glasser spraying fuel under the hood with the slightest turbulence or rough landing and shiver.
Steves gasolator is one of those mods that is right up there with X braces, bushwheels, take off props and extended gear. And not everyone needs these last three....
hotrod180
FRIEND
Port Townsend, WA
The previous owner of my C180 installed a Steve's gascolator, and it's really a well-thought-out piece of work.
But I had the old glass gascolators on my C170 & C150TD, and was OK with them.
I found the bail apparatus satisfactory, if properly safetied and not allowed to get distorted--
I think those bails getting bent or whatever were a result of people overtightening them.
I did like the ability of being able to visually check for debris in the screen.
But I had the old glass gascolators on my C170 & C150TD, and was OK with them.
I found the bail apparatus satisfactory, if properly safetied and not allowed to get distorted--
I think those bails getting bent or whatever were a result of people overtightening them.
I did like the ability of being able to visually check for debris in the screen.
RaisedByWolves
FRIEND
Tx
Eddie Foy
MEMBER
South Florida
RaisedByWolves
FRIEND
Tx
The older ones were glass. Do you want a piece of glass holding the fuel back in a wreck?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Steve's Aircraft (Brian)
FRIEND
White City, Oregon
Use .032 safety wire.. It is an approved method per the ICA..
I have also used a long pair of needle nose pliers that have a 90 degree bend at the tip... grab the key with those and reach up and drop it in..
Brian
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Eddie Foy
MEMBER
South Florida
Mine has a metal bowl. No glass here.
Before cleanup
After Cleanup
Before cleanup
After Cleanup
The older ones were glass. Do you want a piece of glass holding the fuel back in a wreck?
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Steve's Aircraft (Brian)
FRIEND
White City, Oregon
The later model Cessna Gascolators like the one you have are actually pretty good pieces.. as long as they are not corroded out.. major parts for that unit (bowl, top) can exceed the cost of my complete replacement..
I have talked people out of buying mine to replace that one... for around $120 bucks you can replace all the o-rings and center pull rod and have many more years of service..
Brian
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mike mcs repair
Registered User
chugiak AK
TurboBeaver
Registered User
Northern Maine
And for all that missed the post back in 2006 by "Cubscout" referenceing "bail Gascolators" he really
sumed it up correctly:
Quote:
"GREAT news, Steve's Aircraft now has their gascolator assembly on their Master List to replace the OEM piece-o-junk, which was DESIGNED to leak, and exceeded design specifications, and required substantial time and "verbal lubricants" every 100 hours.
E
PS. Ordered mine last week after a great chat with Steve about Gascolator's and flying. Super nice fella and a wealth of knowledge! Cool to do bussiness with a person that not only answers the phone at the bussiness, but also designed and builds the product your ordering!
Small and personal gets the nod, Made in
USA is really still "the best way".
sumed it up correctly:
Quote:
"GREAT news, Steve's Aircraft now has their gascolator assembly on their Master List to replace the OEM piece-o-junk, which was DESIGNED to leak, and exceeded design specifications, and required substantial time and "verbal lubricants" every 100 hours.
E
PS. Ordered mine last week after a great chat with Steve about Gascolator's and flying. Super nice fella and a wealth of knowledge! Cool to do bussiness with a person that not only answers the phone at the bussiness, but also designed and builds the product your ordering!
Small and personal gets the nod, Made in
USA is really still "the best way".
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Eddie Foy
MEMBER
South Florida
Mine was in good shape. Just replaced the parts you mentioned because I had no idea how old the replaced rubber parts were. I loved your unit that I put on my Cub.
hotrod180
FRIEND
Port Townsend, WA
A mechanic buddy of mine just got through installing a Steve's gascolator on a Champ,
I was talking about the PITA of replacing the cotter key and he suggested some long offset hemostats.
