S
StewartB
Reading the replies from all the old farts reminds me of why I need to fight to stay young. I broke of few old man rules while flying today. What a blast. 
SB
SB
Tailwheel Instructional Materials
- Thread starter MikeH
- Start date
bob turner
Registered User
Wow! Did this go off the rails in a hurry.
I gotta tell you - there are taildraggers out there that I would not attempt to teach in. I have misgivings about the simple J-4! If I had maybe fifty hours in the thing in the pattern, I would be better at it.
I gotta tell you - there are taildraggers out there that I would not attempt to teach in. I have misgivings about the simple J-4! If I had maybe fifty hours in the thing in the pattern, I would be better at it.
S
StewartB
Do you recall being young and having an old guy tell you you couldn't do something? What did you do? Me? Nothing ever motivated me as much as being told what I couldn't do. There's no question that young guys can learn from old guys. Old guys can learn from young guys, too.
Stewart
Stewart
I am sorry I ever got into this discussion, which proves even us older people are prone to making poor decisions.
The nice thing about this issue is I got into it by my own choice and having made a mistake I can rectify it by remembering to not offer any unsolicited advice on this forum in the future.
There you go youth has won over one the old farts here.
King Brown
Registered User
Nova Scotia
tailwheel instruction materials
The wide range of opinions and the reasons for those opinions, the respectful give-and-take, are what makes this board important to me. I don't let others do my thinking for me but the wisdom and myths here give me something to measure my prejudices and ignorance.
The wide range of opinions and the reasons for those opinions, the respectful give-and-take, are what makes this board important to me. I don't let others do my thinking for me but the wisdom and myths here give me something to measure my prejudices and ignorance.
mvivion
SPONSOR
Bozeman,MT
Chuck,
You been around aviation for how long now????
Surely, you've hardened up a good bit more than to allow a troll like Stewart to run you off..... :lol:
Sorry, Stewart--your point is valid, but there's a difference between BUYING your own airplane and learning the hard way, and CHARGING someone to TEACH them a new skill set which you don't possess yourself.
Learning the hard way (by yourself) is an effective way to learn tailwheel ops, no doubt. It can also be expensive.
But, again, Stewart--when was the last time you gave someone dual instruction in a tailwheel airplane?
Instructing and flying are two very different skill sets. Not unrelated, mind you, but not the same, either.
This is a hot button issue for me and obviously many other instructors. I have seen young instructors who've only logged time in a C-150 and a couple hours in a 172 RG and a float rating in a Super Cub out doing "Type Checkouts" in a C-185 on floats for a new owner. Do you honestly think the C-185 owner is getting his or her money's worth?
I'll grant you that this is a case of buyer beware, but many times the new owner/pilot has no background to make these kinds of decisions either.
Then there's the old proverb: "One who teaches himself has a fool for a student".
MTV
You been around aviation for how long now????
Surely, you've hardened up a good bit more than to allow a troll like Stewart to run you off..... :lol:
Sorry, Stewart--your point is valid, but there's a difference between BUYING your own airplane and learning the hard way, and CHARGING someone to TEACH them a new skill set which you don't possess yourself.
Learning the hard way (by yourself) is an effective way to learn tailwheel ops, no doubt. It can also be expensive.
But, again, Stewart--when was the last time you gave someone dual instruction in a tailwheel airplane?
Instructing and flying are two very different skill sets. Not unrelated, mind you, but not the same, either.
This is a hot button issue for me and obviously many other instructors. I have seen young instructors who've only logged time in a C-150 and a couple hours in a 172 RG and a float rating in a Super Cub out doing "Type Checkouts" in a C-185 on floats for a new owner. Do you honestly think the C-185 owner is getting his or her money's worth?
I'll grant you that this is a case of buyer beware, but many times the new owner/pilot has no background to make these kinds of decisions either.
Then there's the old proverb: "One who teaches himself has a fool for a student".
MTV
F
FiftyNineSC
mvivion said:
No doubt. I've got about 600 TW spread between PA-18's, PA-20's and Cessna 180's. I still don't feel that I have the required skill/experience to let a student "get a little out of shape" and then reel it back in. I feel that a good instructor needs to be able to let a student get into just enough trouble; and i'm not there yet.
Also, my father who is a military guy, has said many times emaphatically that he didn't really learn to fly until he got back from Viet Nam and was required to teach primary.
MV for sure I have been flying and teaching same for many decades and am well aware that a few posters in these internet groups will see any new comer to the forum as a possible threat to their own self image of what they think they are.
Several of my previous students were in the top percentage of the pilot group as they had attained top positions in aviation such as Frances first astronaut and Airbus test pilot, he put up with my being his mentor for two years and we are still friends.
Also one of the Red Bull air race pilots was a former student of mine and we flew together for a long time and are still the best of friends.
Therefore I am fairly secure in the belief that I am a reasonably competent instructor and able to hold my own with anyone who has to revert to using derogatory comments when they run out of anything useful to support their opinion.
It has been five years since I retired from flying for a living, at the time I held a valid unrestricted air display authority under JAR and was flying in the European air show circuit as part of my job.
I still hold a medical valid for my ATPL and hope most of my skills are still within reason.
NimpoCub
Registered User
Nimpo Lake, BC . . . AKA "the Floatplane Capital o
Chuck E. said:
Chas, as you well know, "older people" are a valuable resource to other (young or old) people. I've long realized that an expert is someone who's made all the mistakes & REMEMBERS 'em. That takes time.
Please don't let your feelings get hurt & shuffle off to a corner. Your advice/comments are valuable & appreciated. It's the kind of stuff that makes this place such a great resource. SJ could never HIRE so many good advisors, let alone PAY them enough to put up with the abuse.
Hav'a deep breath, accept others' opinions, and be confident in your own place.
I'd be willing to bet that StewB respects your old-fart-knowledge but he has some of his own. Remember, opinions are like "south-end body parts" and everybody has one.
I've enjoyed this thread (for the most part) and think that MikeH has "got the point" and now just needs to chew on it.
Thanks to ALL the ol' pharts here. You're a valuable resource to us newb's.
SJ, I think you need to find or build a "pullin' your chain" icon.
sj
Staff member
Northwest Arkansas
Chuck E. said:Lesson two will follow shortly.
I will outline how to make better landings by describing where you look during the final stages of the landings to be better able to judge your height above the landing surface.
YAY! I look forward to this. I spend a lot of time trying to get people to stop looking over the nose, it is amazing what you can learn out of those side windows....
sj
TirolCub
SPONSOR
Austria
...check this link. The "Taildragger Tactics" book is the best in my opinion.
http://www.mountainflying.com/
Happy landings
http://www.mountainflying.com/
Happy landings
aktango58
FRIEND
18AA
steve said:Chuck E. said:Lesson two will follow shortly.
I will outline how to make better landings by describing where you look during the final stages of the landings to be better able to judge your height above the landing surface.
YAY! I look forward to this. I spend a lot of time trying to get people to stop looking over the nose, it is amazing what you can learn out of those side windows....
sj
New Forum Index:
Lesson plan for thoes wanting to Learn, by ChuckE!
Zing
Registered User
Florence, Arizona
I've been watching this thread. Frankly, I've seen nothing but good advice and honest opinions, and I can't argue against any of those.
My total time is majority tailwheel ... it's those pesky round things under the nose that give me fits. The only instructing I really did was trying to teach two 0-tailwheel hour guys to fly a Twin Beech. It was terrifying and the only time I was ever off the runway in a tailwheel plane. Instructing is not a skill I have or want, and I refused to do anymore for the owner.
I've had good instructors to learn from and needed an instructor a time or two for a BFR or instrument recurrency. I was real selective for learning. Seems most all of those were old guys with a ton of time and experience. I've had a couple sign off instructors with such low hours I found it hard to believe they were instructing primary students and fledgling instrument students. By comparison, they were generally cheaper to hire and their flying showed why. There are good instructors and there are turkeys out there with a wallet full of ratings who haven't mastered the basics.
A memorable example. I took a 2000-plus hour single and multi instructor up in a J-3. He wanted to see a real spin and had never been in one. I briefed him on what to expect, how to do it and how to recover, Then demonstrated a one-turn spin and recovered on heading.
He took the controls, reduced power and raised the nose a tiny bit. Most of you know that a J-3 has to be coaxed into spinning and will pretty much recover just by releasing the stick and rudder. We mushed along for a bit until I convinced him to pull the stick back and put full rudder in on the break. His reaction was to let out a yell, release the stick and grab the windshield support tubes. I had not told him that releasing the controls would recoverer the spin, so I held in full back stick and rudder and told him that yelling and grabbing structural supports is not an approved recovery method. About midway into the third rotation he got back on the controls, over rode my inputs and recovered. We did two more one-turn spins, but he was extremely disconcerted by spinning.
Back at the airport, I showed him tracking the centerline on one wheel, switching back and forth between the mains and mild s-turns with the tail up. It terrified the instructor.
My first instructor pounded those kind of lessons into me, for which I've always been grateful. It has served me well. Flying with an instructor who had never seen such maneuvers, let alone practiced them was ... well I wouldn't send a student to him.
Moral, for me anyway ... if you need to learn a flying skill, find the crusty old guy every time. They are worth the money.
Shortly after soloing in the Luscombe I learned to fly in, I groundlooped the airplane on landing. No damage and stayed on the grass by sheer luck, but when I taxied in, my instructor who saw the whole thing gave me some of the best advice I ever got ... "g#wd %@& you stupid SOB, if you don't want to go someplace like that, don't let the airplane go there in the first place."
I think there was a comment or two about my parental heritage in there, too, but I remembered the important part. It works in airplanes with the tailwheel on the wrong end, too.
My total time is majority tailwheel ... it's those pesky round things under the nose that give me fits. The only instructing I really did was trying to teach two 0-tailwheel hour guys to fly a Twin Beech. It was terrifying and the only time I was ever off the runway in a tailwheel plane. Instructing is not a skill I have or want, and I refused to do anymore for the owner.
I've had good instructors to learn from and needed an instructor a time or two for a BFR or instrument recurrency. I was real selective for learning. Seems most all of those were old guys with a ton of time and experience. I've had a couple sign off instructors with such low hours I found it hard to believe they were instructing primary students and fledgling instrument students. By comparison, they were generally cheaper to hire and their flying showed why. There are good instructors and there are turkeys out there with a wallet full of ratings who haven't mastered the basics.
A memorable example. I took a 2000-plus hour single and multi instructor up in a J-3. He wanted to see a real spin and had never been in one. I briefed him on what to expect, how to do it and how to recover, Then demonstrated a one-turn spin and recovered on heading.
He took the controls, reduced power and raised the nose a tiny bit. Most of you know that a J-3 has to be coaxed into spinning and will pretty much recover just by releasing the stick and rudder. We mushed along for a bit until I convinced him to pull the stick back and put full rudder in on the break. His reaction was to let out a yell, release the stick and grab the windshield support tubes. I had not told him that releasing the controls would recoverer the spin, so I held in full back stick and rudder and told him that yelling and grabbing structural supports is not an approved recovery method. About midway into the third rotation he got back on the controls, over rode my inputs and recovered. We did two more one-turn spins, but he was extremely disconcerted by spinning.
Back at the airport, I showed him tracking the centerline on one wheel, switching back and forth between the mains and mild s-turns with the tail up. It terrified the instructor.
My first instructor pounded those kind of lessons into me, for which I've always been grateful. It has served me well. Flying with an instructor who had never seen such maneuvers, let alone practiced them was ... well I wouldn't send a student to him.
Moral, for me anyway ... if you need to learn a flying skill, find the crusty old guy every time. They are worth the money.
Shortly after soloing in the Luscombe I learned to fly in, I groundlooped the airplane on landing. No damage and stayed on the grass by sheer luck, but when I taxied in, my instructor who saw the whole thing gave me some of the best advice I ever got ... "g#wd %@& you stupid SOB, if you don't want to go someplace like that, don't let the airplane go there in the first place."
I think there was a comment or two about my parental heritage in there, too, but I remembered the important part. It works in airplanes with the tailwheel on the wrong end, too.
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