Need a book on C-180 / C-185 flying technique
- Thread starter Speedo
- Start date
pzinck
Registered User
western,me
Here is a good little quick synopsis. I don't know of much more than this and also FE pots website. http://www.skywagon.info/newsletter/A Cowboys guide to the Cessna 185.pdf Here is Fe potts site. http://www.fepco.com/Bush_Flying.html
irishfield
Registered User
Penetanguishene, Ontario Canada
I still miss my old 182A Eric... just remember.. full rudder and opposite stick(yoke) side slips with 40 degrees of flap down can be a NO NO... .. but I'm still here! lol
pzinck
Registered User
western,me
The only thing obnoxious i have found on a 185 is a short field go around. If you have the trim all the way back (nose up), you better start trimming fast (nose down). With full aft trim and full power the skywagon wants to nose up real fast. You will have to exert alot of forward pressure and learn to trim . Possibly this is worse on robertson skywagons, but ours is a handfull. I think they are a wonderfull plane and more like a cub than other cessnas. I like to leave the trim more forward than i did when i first started flying 180/185's. i prefer wheel landings now.
aktango58
FRIEND
18AA
Number one: Check before any flight that the seat is LOCKED in place.
Number two: Double check to see that the seat is locked in place.
Number three: it will go left when power is put in
Number four: use full flaps to lift the tail, then raise them until you get to flying speed and pull them again
Number five: flaps at one notch to start takeoff run, they are way down there to try and reach at full up.
Number six: trim is between the seats, use it, set it before takeoff or you will be sorry.
Number seven: check fuel selector before sitting down, and study it
Number 8: easy on x-wind until you get some time
Number 9: What crash said
Number two: Double check to see that the seat is locked in place.
Number three: it will go left when power is put in
Number four: use full flaps to lift the tail, then raise them until you get to flying speed and pull them again
Number five: flaps at one notch to start takeoff run, they are way down there to try and reach at full up.
Number six: trim is between the seats, use it, set it before takeoff or you will be sorry.
Number seven: check fuel selector before sitting down, and study it
Number 8: easy on x-wind until you get some time
Number 9: What crash said
skywagon8a
MEMBER
SE Mass MA6
When landing on pavement make sure that the main wheels are pointed in the same direction as they are tracking. Do not touch down in a crab.
sj
Staff member
Northwest Arkansas
skywagon8a said:
That should be true of ANY airplane (that does not have crosswind gear).
I had some pretty knarly gusty x-winds in the 180 yesterday, and I don't have my chops up quite where I would like them since I just got the plane back after a two year hiatus. I "got it done" but it could have been a lot prettier. I do need to go out and practice.
Once you get the hang of the 180 it is an easy airplane to fly in any conditions in my opinion.
sj
skywagon8a
MEMBER
SE Mass MA6
steve said:
True Steve. My point is that with any flat spring gear tail dragger, the gear will tend to bend inboard, winding up the spring so to speak, before the pilot recognizes what is happening. Then the spring rebounds launching the plane in an unanticipated direction. Since the tire grips pavement better than grass the rebound is more pronounced. The gear on the PA-12 which Speedo plans to transition from will not wind up in this same manner.
S
StewartB
An hour or two with a good Skywagon instructor would be my best advice. Most of what I've read isn't worth the time it takes to read it.
SB
SB
pzinck
Registered User
western,me
I agree totally that in flight training is by far the best training. I also think that reading and being aware of beforehand is a great practice. I have learned many things from reading posts here about cub techniques and operating practices. I learned to fly a cub without instruction. I never even had a tailwheel lesson in my life. My piloting skill have improved (most of the times) greatly by reading, hangar flying and listening to cub pilots. I also have learned alot about short field techniques in a 185 by this site. I guess we would not need this website if everyone just went out and learned by flying. I also don't think we would gain multiple perspectives and techniques by just going by what our checkout flight instructor told us. I think the original poster will be a much more rounded skywagon pilot by using all the tools available. Same as maintaining planes. If mechanic just learned by their original maintenance instructor, they would not have the knowledge of some of our cub gurus.
bob turner
Registered User
It's sort of moot now anyway - all the insurers are demanding a lot of instruction before they cover you. Ten years ago it was ten hours, but now it is 25!
I agree that the 180 is one of the best all around lightplanes. Took the Robertson factory course in a 300 hp 185, but do not remember any serious trim issues. Signed a guy off today in a 180 - he did a beautiful crosswind landing - but no worries, because the insurer will never let him go until we do 20 more hours.
My first 180 flight was solo IFR out of Vero Beach. I don't do that kind of stuff anymore.
I agree that the 180 is one of the best all around lightplanes. Took the Robertson factory course in a 300 hp 185, but do not remember any serious trim issues. Signed a guy off today in a 180 - he did a beautiful crosswind landing - but no worries, because the insurer will never let him go until we do 20 more hours.
My first 180 flight was solo IFR out of Vero Beach. I don't do that kind of stuff anymore.
mvivion
SPONSOR
Bozeman,MT
One thing you could do is acquire a copy of a POH for the particular model you're considering. I realize you may not be able to be specific, but any POH will be helpful.
That will enable you to at least become familiar with systems and procedures ahead of time. A thought.
Bob,
The "trim issue" he was referring to was a go-around from a full flap glide, with the airplane trimmed for the full flap glide. Then push up full power, and welcome to a deeply moving religious experience :roll: . The forward force required on the yoke to level the airplane until you can reduce the flap setting is "interesting", and an eye opener for most folks.
But, they're a great airplane.
MTV
That will enable you to at least become familiar with systems and procedures ahead of time. A thought.
Bob,
The "trim issue" he was referring to was a go-around from a full flap glide, with the airplane trimmed for the full flap glide. Then push up full power, and welcome to a deeply moving religious experience :roll: . The forward force required on the yoke to level the airplane until you can reduce the flap setting is "interesting", and an eye opener for most folks.
But, they're a great airplane.
MTV
Speedo
FOUNDER
TN
Thanks to all who have shared their thoughts. Phil's quote below pretty much sums up my thinking when I made the original post.
The plan is to acquaint myself with some of the basic info that's available in books and from forums, and then get plenty of instruction. That is, of course, assuming that the opportunity to fly the plane really does materialize; it's been dangled out there, but is not a firm commitment.
Eric
pzinck said:
The plan is to acquaint myself with some of the basic info that's available in books and from forums, and then get plenty of instruction. That is, of course, assuming that the opportunity to fly the plane really does materialize; it's been dangled out there, but is not a firm commitment.
Eric
bob turner
Registered User
Mike - I get it. I still haven't noticed any problem, but maybe that is because I do not put full aft trim in lightplanes for landing. Most 180s that I have flown need no trim change while in the pattern, from full flaps to flaps up.
Speedo - the 180 is predominately motor skill. You just need to get in there and do it. Start out with full stall landings, and master them before you start wheel landings. The airplane flies off the deck just fine in the 3-point attitude, although most are now teaching flaps 20, hold it on the deck until 60. Dunno why . . .
Speedo - the 180 is predominately motor skill. You just need to get in there and do it. Start out with full stall landings, and master them before you start wheel landings. The airplane flies off the deck just fine in the 3-point attitude, although most are now teaching flaps 20, hold it on the deck until 60. Dunno why . . .
I spent a bit of time in a mates 185 ,before I had heard about how tricky they were,,,,geez I'm glad i just went out and flew/landed it the way the owner said to if I'd read up I might have tried to over think it all, I fell in love with the big bird though,,, and yes to the damn seats,do the cessna wriggle! and yes to the damn avgas ,very thirsty!
Dough Head
Registered User
4AK6/DVT
bob turner
Registered User
I am not a high time 180 driver, but most of my time has been teaching, and almost all of that is in the pattern. Wheel landing a Cub is trivial, but for most of us, wheel landing a 180 requires some finesse. However, for the guy who asked for the advice, take all of it, absorb it, and make your own choices. Good 180 instructors are not all that plentiful, and you may wind up doing your 25 hours of insurance time with somebody who knows less about taildraggers than you do. Your Cub experience will stand you in good stead.
texmex
MEMBER
Hanging Rock, Australia.
Agree with StewartB.
Ah those steel spring legs! My first solo was in our family C-180, the only guy around who probably did close to 100hrs before Dad would send me solo. Anyway he use to talk about the spring in those gear legs but when I flew the old model 182 with the same or similar legs there was no spring. Barry Schiff provided the answer in that the bouncing C-180's CoG pulls the tail down and increases the AoA. Therefore more lift and the aeroplane flies again. I figure the moment arm between the wheels and CoG on different tailwheelers is the reason some bounce more readily then others.(looking for correction here)
In the C-182 the CoG pulls the wing down, decreasing the AoA, ie lift, and planting it more firmly on the runway.
Ah those steel spring legs! My first solo was in our family C-180, the only guy around who probably did close to 100hrs before Dad would send me solo. Anyway he use to talk about the spring in those gear legs but when I flew the old model 182 with the same or similar legs there was no spring. Barry Schiff provided the answer in that the bouncing C-180's CoG pulls the tail down and increases the AoA. Therefore more lift and the aeroplane flies again. I figure the moment arm between the wheels and CoG on different tailwheelers is the reason some bounce more readily then others.(looking for correction here)
In the C-182 the CoG pulls the wing down, decreasing the AoA, ie lift, and planting it more firmly on the runway.
A entertaining read of Skywagon Flying from Down Under:
http://www.dh82.com/index.php/component/k2/item/161-c185.html
http://www.dh82.com/index.php/component/k2/item/161-c185.html
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S
StewartB
I wish some of you were with me last Friday. The final 5 minutes into the strip was so rough the dog was bouncing around like a ball. The strip was under the trees so the 35 mph crosswind at 60* off heading assured it would be a circus ride at the treetops. The approach took two attempts. Going around was a handful. If I'd have missed the second try we'd have turned and ran. Taking off three days later saw more of the same. Up near the treetops and wham. Can't learn that stuff from a book. Gotta build up to it over several years. The level of a pilot's competence is related to the pilot's experience with the conditions of the day. Weather, short strips, obstacles, you get good at things you do on a regular basis. Coming home found Lake Hood strip closed due to an accident. We were rerouted to Anch International and the huge runway 32. I botched that landing to an enormous runway with benign conditions. Unfamiliarity with the approach and environment. Distracted. Out of my comfort zone. I got behind the airplane. Lesson learned. I'll be better prepared next time because I can reflect on experience. It all adds up. That's the thing I recognize as the biggest difference between anateur and professional pilots. Adapting to variables. Pros are better at it than I am. It's the sum of their experience.
SB
SB
