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Thread: sutton exhaust system

  1. #41
    Widebody's Avatar
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    Sutton

    Here are some pictures with captions. The rear seat heat mod on exhaust stack is our own.
    I really like the Sutton exhaust and previously had the Leading Edge.
    It's 9-10lbs lighter I believe and the engine seems to run smoother.
    It also frees up much needed space by the firewall.
    No complaints here, plenty of heat.

    http://picasaweb.google.com/11126741...eat=directlink

    Brad
    Last edited by Widebody; 12-08-2010 at 03:37 PM.

  2. #42
    aviationinfo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by S2D View Post
    I had the same problem. Tired of freezing my arse last winter, I redid my hoses, installed a Y so some of it would go thru my FADodge heat robber, and most importantly, added two finned bands inside the muff clamped to the exhaust. now I have more heat than my old system.
    Brian---

    Am trying to visualize the two finned bands and how they help---can you explain a bit? I too could use more heat. Thx.

    Andrew

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by NimpoCub View Post
    After a claim of 20hp lost, JN said:



    OK, so let's see the data.

    My experience with "straight pipes" has been great. I bought mine from Vetterman (designed for Rans) on recommendation from Bart. He said it would make a "noticeable" diff, and it did. There is no muffler, the pipes cross over in front of the oil pan, and you can dump the exhaust down through the lower cowl vents, or out the back just under the firewall. Fit/finish/quality is 101%

    I was suffering a bit of an RPM issue on break-in, it wouldn't spin up to 2750. After the new exhaust system it now goes to 2800 without a prob. My "massaged" 0320 now jumps off the water 1 sec. faster than the neighbors' 0360. Bart's magic + no back pressure = a GoodThing.

    Nimpo-bro, that is not "straight pipes".

    Straight Pipes are straight pipes, usually about 18" long, one for each cylinder.

    I hear Brian/PPI about the "dyno-magic". However, that is a reputable builder/messager (LyCon) in a hopefully-balanced (fair) dyno-test. Is there a reason they would fudge things? I can't think why.

    D

  4. #44
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    I have always wondered why Horse Power is so relied upon as the definitive numbers in airplane engines. Take automotive exhaust manufacturers, Good ones will design multiple configurations to fit the needs of the application. More often than not they will design with torque in mind and let the horse power take its own course. Brian stated the pull test (IE: torque the engine actually produces) for the design of his exhaust and they let the HP find its new home. Building tourqe is key, torque is what we feel in the seat of the pants. I have alway thought that is why an O-300 won't pull as hard as a O-320,,,,, when there is only a published 5 HP difference between the two. Anyway I like the look of the Sutton exhaust. Something just looks right about it.

    Scott..

  5. #45
    Dave Calkins's Avatar
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    "We" need to develop a "dynamic" thrust test. A static pull test (tail tied to a scale tied to a tree) gives us some data, but not everything useful to know about our prime mover.

    I'm not arguing with you Scott or Brian.

    I'm simply saying that loading an airplane on a flat-bed trailer and tying the tail to a scale that is tied to the trailer and pulling the trailer down the runway with a truck at various speeds to test thrust dynamically would provide more useful data......

    ....just saying.

    DAVE

    PS, anyone ever do a dynamic thrust test?..... and, no, I'm not asking about time-to-climb or time-to-rotation.

  6. #46
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    This post has been helpful to me. Brian, I will give you a call to find out about the ribbons. Now that I read this, I recall a conversation about that when we bought the system.

    My Super Cub is super drafty. What can be done to seal it up? The back seater in bird always gets pretty cold. I do have the rear seat heat kit but I agree that the without cutting down the drafts, it would take a monumental amount of heat. On a sunny day, I have the same problem Calfi describes, though not to the same degree -- it can be comfortable up front in the sun and really cold in the back. I always assumed that the drafts were just a function of rag and tube construction.

  7. #47

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    I keep a 2 in roll of masking tape in the cockpit to tape off the doors on cold days. Don't think it will work in very cold weather but point is when I cut the draft the heater becomes two much. Only talking the 20 to 30's up high. Also the joint I taped off where the boot cowl meets the fire wall and silconed the joint. Lot of air and unwanted engine compartment venting comes through there. Also siliconed the any gaps where the fabric meets the landing gear fittings,had a couple of gaps.I think the wing root is the main problem for all of us. Fabric panel would cure most of that when building.
    Last edited by Fortysix12; 12-09-2010 at 06:48 AM.

  8. #48
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    SJs is super drafty as well.....with a 1 - 1.5" diameter whole in the window and the left side sliding window that slides easily. But I have plenty of heat now! It really is quite comfortable now.

    cafi

  9. #49
    5 Rivers's Avatar
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    I've been very pleased with the Sutton Exhaust. From the performance factor to plenty of heat to freeing up much need space near the firewall.
    I sure like the 3" tail pipe.
    The SQ2 sure seems to perform great with it.

    Randy Goza

  10. #50
    S2D's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aviationinfo View Post
    Brian---

    Am trying to visualize the two finned bands and how they help---can you explain a bit? I too could use more heat. Thx.

    Andrew


    Make two strips of aluminum ( or very thin stainless steel), about 13 1/2 inches long by 3/4" wide. mark two lines 1/4 inch apart lengthwise on the sgtrip . On those lines, drill holes approx 1/2 " apart the whole length of each line. then notch the strip at each of those holes. Take a sheet metal brake and make the strip into a U channel. Now the strip will bend easily around the muffler with all the little fins sticking up to radiate heat to the air flowing over the muffler. Attach to the muffler (under the shroud) with safety wire wrapped completely around the muffler.

  11. #51
    SteveE's Avatar
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    I'm glad you fixed that,, now I wont get so cold in the back.. Although a little cool air helps at times..

  12. #52
    aviationinfo's Avatar
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    Thanks Brian, I'm going to go look at it today.

  13. #53
    Dave Calkins's Avatar
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    As far as keeping the cabin of a Cub warm, most of us don't think about this, but sealing THE BACK of the cabin is very important. Sealing the aft baggage area and under the rear seat will stop the draft of cool air from the back of the airplane. Seriously, try it.

    Randy G., am I wrong to think that Wayne Mackey's SQ-2 original has the Custom Cross Over exhaust system? Sorry if I misled anyone.

    My intention in mentioning the Custom Crossover was to talk about the one Hot Rod Cub that had very long tail pipes and was choking until the pipes were shortened. D.

  14. #54
    Widebody's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Calkins View Post
    As far as keeping the cabin of a Cub warm, most of us don't think about this, but sealing THE BACK of the cabin is very important. Sealing the aft baggage area and under the rear seat will stop the draft of cool air from the back of the airplane. Seriously, try it.
    Failed to mention this in my post. But Dave is right, very important for a warm cabin.

    Brad

  15. #55
    5 Rivers's Avatar
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    Mackey's SQ2 definitely has the Sutton with the winter kit and 3" tail pipe. My SQ2 has the same as well. As said in earlier post, very pleased with it.

  16. #56

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    On the left hand side of the heat shroud around the muffler should the gaps around the exhaust pipe be closed up tight to retain more heat and airflow?

  17. #57
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    On the Sutton exhaust which outlet do you hook the cabin heat to? The inboard one looks to me like it would give you more cabin heat but then less for carb heat.

    Eric

  18. #58

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    The cabin heat outlet is the inside one. I just installed the sutton on my 12. I have yet to fly it but it sounded good on the run up. Super easy installation other than cutting the hole in the cowl. It sure cleans up the engine compartment without all those pipes running everywhere. Hopefully the weather will clear soon so I can give a review on it.

  19. #59
    S2D's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tempdoug View Post
    On the left hand side of the heat shroud around the muffler should the gaps around the exhaust pipe be closed up tight to retain more heat and airflow?

    Thats the carb heat. It sucks air in thru that opening. there is a baffle part way inboard from that to seperate the carb from cabin heat
    Thanks Dbow thanked for this post

  20. #60

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    Here is a picture of my Sutton exhaust that Steve Pierce just got back from Dawley with the heat ribbons installed:


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    "Why is it wives can't just accept the biological mystery of guns reproducing in gun cabinets, and let it go at that?" - Patrick F. McManus

  21. #61
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    Brian, i think you linked the thumb nail.

    You can see the heat ribbons installed on Brian's existing muffler.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Steve Pierce

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  22. #62

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    Dooh! Guess I need a little "dual" on the new system....
    "Why is it wives can't just accept the biological mystery of guns reproducing in gun cabinets, and let it go at that?" - Patrick F. McManus

  23. #63
    JMBreitinger's Avatar
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    Anybody have advice on the best practices for cutting down the drafts? The job seems like trying to heat a screen porch.
    Thanks Brmoore thanked for this post

  24. #64
    JMBreitinger's Avatar
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    One other question -- anyone try reducing the volume of interior space by walling off the extended baggage area with a piece of rigid foam insulation and some PMA duct tape? I have a wide body and my back end is wide-ass open. There is a very large volume of space back there. Seems to be negative air pressure too so in cruise, there is air seeping in through every penetration. I never notice it until it gets cold.

  25. #65
    S2D's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JMBreitinger View Post
    One other question -- anyone try reducing the volume of interior space by walling off the extended baggage area with a piece of rigid foam insulation and some PMA duct tape? I have a wide body and my back end is wide-ass open. There is a very large volume of space back there. Seems to be negative air pressure too so in cruise, there is air seeping in through every penetration. I never notice it until it gets cold.
    Wall of the extended baggege hell, I've been trying to figure out how to wall it off right beihind the door in front of the rear seat, or at least right at the back of the rear seat.

  26. #66

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    A vinyl panel secured with industrial strength Velcro might work. Put the "hooks" on the panel, or you will be snagging a lot of things when not using the panel.

  27. #67

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    I have a Sutton exhaust on my Smith Cub. It is a very high quality system, and I would buy it again if needed. In addition, the Sutton people are truly great to deal with.

    Mike

  28. #68

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    Lightbulb

    Well I finally got to do some flight testing. Here are a few differences I noticed.

    Heat output. Good. With the heat ribbons installed it puts out better heat than the stock PA-18 style exhaust I had. I think heat output could be boosted with more air pressure through the intake vent in the left side baffling. I don't have the front mounted oil cooler scoop but something similar to increase air flow would give even more heat.

    Power. The same. In flat cruise wide open I am getting 2600 RPM (150HP). On climb out 2400 RPM.

    Noise. The same only a little deeper sound. I think the noise in the cabin is quieter. It is much smoother as far as the vibrations heard and felt inside the cabin. The old system was causing some pretty strong vibrations somewhere.

    Exhaust smell/CO. Gone. There was no ehasust smell or CO indicated on my 2 different CO indicators. This was a problem before. It could have been a number of things. The stock exhaust is short. On most PA-12's the gaps around gear legs let air flow up in the cabin. The metal belly may have been catching some exhaust. There were no cracks found on the old one but maybe there was a leak? The sutton gets the exhaust gas away from the belly and the side of the plane.

    EGT/CHT There was a difference in EGT. 100F less than the old exhaust. CHT also ran slightly lower than the other system. The EGT/CHT is only on one cylinder.

    Weight loss. With the new lightweight starter and Sutton it was around 11 LBS.

    Simpicity was a big selling point for me on this system. Inpection or just working on anything on the engine is much easier now.

    Instalation was easy and straight forward. The service from PPI was great. They were very helpful. I would definitely put this system on again. I now have a few buddies thinking it might be OK for their cubs too.

  29. #69

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    I've been running the Sutton system 2800 hours on my pa 18 the heat out of the heat hose is high volume and very hot ,though the muffler is not next to the firewall so you lose this radiant heat ,bad int the winter ,though awesome in the summer , I've run the carb heat outlet to the cabin heat on accident and it seems the flow is much less . overall i love the system

  30. #70

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    Can anyone confirm if the Sutton Exhaust will fit on a Stoddard Short Mount O320? I’ve got a new B&C Starter and Alt and plan to have a rear oil cooler.

  31. #71
    Gordon Misch's Avatar
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    The entire system is forward of the accessory case, so the mount shouldn't matter.
    Gordon

    N4328M KTDO
    My SPOT: tinyurl.com/N4328M (case sensitive)
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  32. #72

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gordon Misch View Post
    The entire system is forward of the accessory case, so the mount shouldn't matter.
    Thanks, I spoke with them today. They confirmed it should work fine, so I placed an order for it. I suppose I was more concerned about the lower cowling clearance given the steep angle that a short requires.

  33. #73
    Gordon Misch's Avatar
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    I have the short mount on my -12, and Sutton exhaust. It all fits fine. Enjoy!
    Gordon

    N4328M KTDO
    My SPOT: tinyurl.com/N4328M (case sensitive)
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  34. #74

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    I talked ton Dawley last week, they sold out to awi of Minnesota, so heads up on that. More jobs lost in aviation. I really liked them. Tim
    Thanks jrussl thanked for this post

  35. #75
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by astjp2 View Post
    I talked ton Dawley last week, they sold out to awi of Minnesota, so heads up on that. More jobs lost in aviation. I really liked them. Tim
    So they sold out and shut down or they sold out and are gonna be building exhaust under AWI's name? Always enjoyed visiting with Larry, the owner and Kurt was always great to work with.
    Steve Pierce

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  36. #76

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    No more in wi, Kurt did not seem too happy, a lot of the staff did not want to move to Minnesota.

  37. #77

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    I received my exhaust on Friday. The box was labeled with Dawley’s labeling and came from Burlington, WI. I did not know they sold out! This exhaust is amazing BTW. Much simpler and more efficient compared to what’s coming off the airplane!
    Likes dgapilot liked this post

  38. #78
    Marty57's Avatar
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    Hmmm; I'm ready to order a Sutton Exhaust for my exp. '14 and I have a few questions for them; where do I order it from?
    Marty57
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  39. #79

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marty57 View Post
    Hmmm; I'm ready to order a Sutton Exhaust for my exp. '14 and I have a few questions for them; where do I order it from?
    Marty57
    https://www.propilotsinc.com/exhaust-conversion/

  40. #80
    Marty57's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MEM-PA12 View Post
    Thanks, that's where I have been looking for info. I guess the posts above are were a bit confusing to me about the company being sold? I'll contact propilot.

    Marty57
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    Psalm 36:7 "High and low among men find refuge in the shadow of His wing"
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