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sutton exhaust system

Sutton

Do what it takes to keep oil temps above 180 degrees.:lol: 200 is really good. I use the standard cub heat for a hose to the back seat with a hook on the end when I need defrost. I have a Y to a attle box that comes in high on the right side of the boot cowl with a short piece of exhaust riser hose that is directed between my feet up front.
I have never had the front seat heat on more than a little. The hose will melt everything in site on high heat. I deal with low temps all winter long.
Sandy
 
After a claim of 20hp lost, JN said:

J NIESEN said:
I will dig up the printout of the dyno runs and post them.
There is a quote in the world that I work in that says: "In God we trust, all others bring data"
Click to expand...

OK, so let's see the data. :)

My experience with "straight pipes" has been great. I bought mine from Vetterman (designed for Rans) on recommendation from Bart. He said it would make a "noticeable" diff, and it did. There is no muffler, the pipes cross over in front of the oil pan, and you can dump the exhaust down through the lower cowl vents, or out the back just under the firewall. Fit/finish/quality is 101%

I was suffering a bit of an RPM issue on break-in, it wouldn't spin up to 2750. After the new exhaust system it now goes to 2800 without a prob. My "massaged" 0320 now jumps off the water 1 sec. faster than the neighbors' 0360. Bart's magic + no back pressure = a GoodThing.
 
Could somebody post some pictures I'm having a hard time understanding the config under the cowling.
 
I don't think you would ever get a straight pipe system approved. You have to have a carburetor heat source that must drop so many degrees at the carb air box and you have to meet a noise limitation. I am sure there are other limits as well. My point is that we compare certified to certified instead of what the experimental guys have figured out and what can be approved.

Brian, SJ has too much heat because we welded a 2" tube to a V shaped plate, attached a long 2" SCAT hose to it and slid it between the V tube on the firewall and the firewall blanket. It puts all the heat out the end of the hose. :Ghothead: Laura was cold in the back seat before we came up with this and SJ was cooked. Normal Super Cub thing I think. SJ put some holes in the aluminum tube this year to give him some heat and Laura not so much. His door was pretty drafty as well. All this is mute if you fly in Texas most of the time. :lol:
 
There you go. The Steves were just trying to prevent any lip from me....so they made sure I had nothing more to complain about. Well done! hee hee! :)

cafi
 
There you go. The Steves were just trying to prevent any lip from me....so they made sure I had nothing more to complain about. Well done! hee hee! :)

cafi
 
Just wanted to keep you warm and well. You have a bad habit of getting sick here or shortly after you leave. :cry:
 
PPI Brian said:
The guys at Dakota Cub even streamlined the corners of their cabin heat box to increase the flow. (Thanks for the tip Mark:smile:)
Click to expand...

We were just talking about that the other week . . . and I can assure you that airplane will cook you out without trying! With an airplane that is nicely sealed up (door seals, window seals), the heat is just barely cracked and I am perfectly content in a sweatshirt/t-shirt, and I get cold just thinking about snow.

Keep up the good work!
 
S2D said:
I had the same problem. Tired of freezing my arse last winter, I redid my hoses, installed a Y so some of it would go thru my FADodge heat robber, and most importantly, added two finned bands inside the muff clamped to the exhaust. now I have more heat than my old system.
Click to expand...

Brian---

Am trying to visualize the two finned bands and how they help---can you explain a bit? I too could use more heat. Thx.

Andrew
 
NimpoCub said:
After a claim of 20hp lost, JN said:



OK, so let's see the data. :)

My experience with "straight pipes" has been great. I bought mine from Vetterman (designed for Rans) on recommendation from Bart. He said it would make a "noticeable" diff, and it did. There is no muffler, the pipes cross over in front of the oil pan, and you can dump the exhaust down through the lower cowl vents, or out the back just under the firewall. Fit/finish/quality is 101%

I was suffering a bit of an RPM issue on break-in, it wouldn't spin up to 2750. After the new exhaust system it now goes to 2800 without a prob. My "massaged" 0320 now jumps off the water 1 sec. faster than the neighbors' 0360. Bart's magic + no back pressure = a GoodThing.
Click to expand...


Nimpo-bro, that is not "straight pipes".

Straight Pipes are straight pipes, usually about 18" long, one for each cylinder.

I hear Brian/PPI about the "dyno-magic". However, that is a reputable builder/messager (LyCon) in a hopefully-balanced (fair) dyno-test. Is there a reason they would fudge things? I can't think why.

D
 
I have always wondered why Horse Power is so relied upon as the definitive numbers in airplane engines. Take automotive exhaust manufacturers, Good ones will design multiple configurations to fit the needs of the application. More often than not they will design with torque in mind and let the horse power take its own course. Brian stated the pull test (IE: torque the engine actually produces) for the design of his exhaust and they let the HP find its new home. Building tourqe is key, torque is what we feel in the seat of the pants. I have alway thought that is why an O-300 won't pull as hard as a O-320,,,,, when there is only a published 5 HP difference between the two. Anyway I like the look of the Sutton exhaust. Something just looks right about it.

Scott..
 
"We" need to develop a "dynamic" thrust test. A static pull test (tail tied to a scale tied to a tree) gives us some data, but not everything useful to know about our prime mover.

I'm not arguing with you Scott or Brian.

I'm simply saying that loading an airplane on a flat-bed trailer and tying the tail to a scale that is tied to the trailer and pulling the trailer down the runway with a truck at various speeds to test thrust dynamically would provide more useful data......

....just saying.

DAVE

PS, anyone ever do a dynamic thrust test?..... and, no, I'm not asking about time-to-climb or time-to-rotation.
 
This post has been helpful to me. Brian, I will give you a call to find out about the ribbons. Now that I read this, I recall a conversation about that when we bought the system.

My Super Cub is super drafty. What can be done to seal it up? The back seater in bird always gets pretty cold. I do have the rear seat heat kit but I agree that the without cutting down the drafts, it would take a monumental amount of heat. On a sunny day, I have the same problem Calfi describes, though not to the same degree -- it can be comfortable up front in the sun and really cold in the back. I always assumed that the drafts were just a function of rag and tube construction.
 
I keep a 2 in roll of masking tape in the cockpit to tape off the doors on cold days. Don't think it will work in very cold weather but point is when I cut the draft the heater becomes two much. Only talking the 20 to 30's up high. Also the joint I taped off where the boot cowl meets the fire wall and silconed the joint. Lot of air and unwanted engine compartment venting comes through there. Also siliconed the any gaps where the fabric meets the landing gear fittings,had a couple of gaps.I think the wing root is the main problem for all of us. Fabric panel would cure most of that when building.
 
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SJs is super drafty as well.....with a 1 - 1.5" diameter whole in the window and the left side sliding window that slides easily. But I have plenty of heat now! It really is quite comfortable now.

cafi
 
I've been very pleased with the Sutton Exhaust. From the performance factor to plenty of heat to freeing up much need space near the firewall.
I sure like the 3" tail pipe.
The SQ2 sure seems to perform great with it.

Randy Goza
 
aviationinfo said:
Brian---

Am trying to visualize the two finned bands and how they help---can you explain a bit? I too could use more heat. Thx.

Andrew
Click to expand...



Make two strips of aluminum ( or very thin stainless steel), about 13 1/2 inches long by 3/4" wide. mark two lines 1/4 inch apart lengthwise on the sgtrip . On those lines, drill holes approx 1/2 " apart the whole length of each line. then notch the strip at each of those holes. Take a sheet metal brake and make the strip into a U channel. Now the strip will bend easily around the muffler with all the little fins sticking up to radiate heat to the air flowing over the muffler. Attach to the muffler (under the shroud) with safety wire wrapped completely around the muffler.
 
I'm glad you fixed that,, now I wont get so cold in the back..:) Although a little cool air helps at times..:Gsnide:
 
As far as keeping the cabin of a Cub warm, most of us don't think about this, but sealing THE BACK of the cabin is very important. Sealing the aft baggage area and under the rear seat will stop the draft of cool air from the back of the airplane. Seriously, try it.

Randy G., am I wrong to think that Wayne Mackey's SQ-2 original has the Custom Cross Over exhaust system? Sorry if I misled anyone.

My intention in mentioning the Custom Crossover was to talk about the one Hot Rod Cub that had very long tail pipes and was choking until the pipes were shortened. D.
 
Dave Calkins said:
As far as keeping the cabin of a Cub warm, most of us don't think about this, but sealing THE BACK of the cabin is very important. Sealing the aft baggage area and under the rear seat will stop the draft of cool air from the back of the airplane. Seriously, try it.
Click to expand...

Failed to mention this in my post. But Dave is right, very important for a warm cabin.

Brad
 
Mackey's SQ2 definitely has the Sutton with the winter kit and 3" tail pipe. My SQ2 has the same as well. As said in earlier post, very pleased with it.
 
On the left hand side of the heat shroud around the muffler should the gaps around the exhaust pipe be closed up tight to retain more heat and airflow?
 
On the Sutton exhaust which outlet do you hook the cabin heat to? The inboard one looks to me like it would give you more cabin heat but then less for carb heat.

Eric
 
The cabin heat outlet is the inside one. I just installed the sutton on my 12. I have yet to fly it but it sounded good on the run up. Super easy installation other than cutting the hole in the cowl. It sure cleans up the engine compartment without all those pipes running everywhere. Hopefully the weather will clear soon so I can give a review on it.
 
tempdoug said:
On the left hand side of the heat shroud around the muffler should the gaps around the exhaust pipe be closed up tight to retain more heat and airflow?
Click to expand...


Thats the carb heat. It sucks air in thru that opening. there is a baffle part way inboard from that to seperate the carb from cabin heat
 
Here is a picture of my Sutton exhaust that Steve Pierce just got back from Dawley with the heat ribbons installed:


100_8488.JPG
 

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