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Thread: Leading-edge slats

  1. #1

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    Leading-edge slats

    Has anyone retro-fitted the leading edge slat kit (Backcountry) to a stock PA-18 wing? Looks interesting, but I haven't seen much discussion on the subject.

    For safety and slow-speed handling is this a worthwhile mod? Ease of installation? Real-life pilot reports? Pros and cons?

  2. #2
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    I put them on an experimental Smith Cub. Made a helluva difference. Did a lot of testing before doing the thrustline mod and the slats. Easy installation and amazing what they did to the feel and flight characteristics of a 1300 lb. plus Super Cub.
    Steve Pierce

    Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects.
    Will Rogers

  3. #3

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    leading edge slats

    Thanks for that, Steve.

    I'm a little surprised that there seems to be so little interest in this mod.

    Larry

  4. #4

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    Leading edge slats

    Larry

    I have a set installed on my experimental cub - empty weight 1050 with a highly modified 0-320 A2B pushing about 190 horses.
    Also have drooping ailerons tied into the flap handle and larger tail feathers.
    Flys like its on a rail in the steep turns. In and out of places you only dream about in a stock cub. Stalls at 17 mph will all mods deployed.

    Lloyd

  5. #5

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    leading edge slats

    Thanks Lloyd.

    Right now I'm only on straight floats, but if I ever get bush-wheels or skis I guess this might be something to think about.

    My 'plane is Amateur-Built (Experimental) with the standard Cub airfoil.

    Larry

  6. #6
    JayH's Avatar
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    Old thread I'd like to bump a little:

    Dakotacoyote,

    Is your wing an extended, square tip or standard length with a bow tip? I have been looking for a pirep on the slats on a standard length wing with the classic bow tip.

    Thanks,
    J

  7. #7

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    wing

    J
    My wing is a Daktoa Cub wing squared. I also have a stall fence on the last rib.

    Lloyd

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    wing

    J
    My wing is a Daktoa Cub wing squared. I also have a stall fence on the last rib.

    Lloyd

  9. #9
    JayH's Avatar
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    Thanks Lloyd, appreciate the info.

    Jay

  10. #10

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    Re: wing

    Quote Originally Posted by dakotacoyote
    J
    My wing is a Daktoa Cub wing squared. I also have a stall fence on the last rib.

    Lloyd
    I have a 12 with extended squared tips and the day and night flap/aileron conversion (100 inch flaps with the ailerons moved out). Did you happen to fly yours with the current wing before adding the Stall fence? If so what did you notice for difference? Thanks.

  11. #11

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    stall fence

    It did make a difference with aileron control in the slow configuration. That is speeds below 30 mph. I have 92" flaps @ 102" ailerons.

  12. #12

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    Lloyd, could you post a picture of your airplane. Im thinking ive seen a picture of it and it would sure intrigue a lot of people here. Theres actually one more like yours, isnt there. If i remember right one was red, and i cant remember the other one. But im thinking there is another like yours, right? Doug north dakota

  13. #13

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    I flew one of the cubs that backcountry has as a demo plane and was amazed. I put a set of slats on my plane and just love it! There is no power off stall at all. It will get a negative pitch and then the nose comes back up and it just falls flat with the stick all the way back in your lap at about 750 feet per minute. If you watch Wayne Mackey fly his plane on you tube you get a good idea of what they will do.

  14. #14

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    leading edge stats

    Doug
    You are correct on the number (2) Mine is the red/white with moving leading edge slats.
    Wayne Mackey helped me build it so it was done right. When I get it back from the ranch I will take a couple of pic's. I now have 31" tires instead of the original 26" which really makes a difference.
    Its not the fastest cub but did not build it for speed. When I slow her up everyone still flys past me.
    If you get down this way give me a call. I took it out to Missouri Breaks this year and had a great time.
    Lloyd

  15. #15

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    leading edge stats

    Doug
    You are correct on the number (2) Mine is the red/white with moving leading edge slats.
    Wayne Mackey helped me build it so it was done right. When I get it back from the ranch I will take a couple of pic's. I now have 31" tires instead of the original 26" which really makes a difference.
    Its not the fastest cub but did not build it for speed. When I slow her up everyone still flys past me.
    If you get down this way give me a call. I took it out to Missouri Breaks this year and had a great time.
    Lloyd

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    Did you ever get around to taking pics of your cub dakotacoyote? They would be helpful to look at. The wings in particular. Thanks, Bobby

  17. #17
    Skycop's Avatar
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    Anyone ever put one on a Cessna wing?

  18. #18
    Ruffair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skycop View Post
    Anyone ever put one on a Cessna wing?
    ....only in my mind......

    Would look good on a 180 huh.....

  19. #19
    Skycop's Avatar
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    Or on a 1959 EXP 175 taildragger with a 200+ O-360 and Robertson STOL

  20. #20
    C-FIJK's Avatar
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    slats on Cessna wing

    My thought exactly i have a brand new Super Cyclone c-185 300 hp , but looking at the wing leading edge it is not straight meaning the cessna wing tapers back towards the tip ( correct me if i am wrong) If TCOW wants a plane to try them on I am game for it
    My wings are one foot longer at the root with one foot longer flaps I think the slats would be a excellent addition ! My flaps are also one foot larger

    How would the hangers have to be built or would the slat have to taper back like the wing

    Looking for advice My plane is Brand new never flown

    Gerry

  21. #21

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    I have slats on my SQ-2. It won't drop a wing on you in very slow flight.

    Its nice to have the slats when making a 180 turn in a deep narrow canyon.

    I will always have slats on any new SC that I might own. If you have small tires and land at airports only, I wouldn't bother with them.

  22. #22

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    I am wondering how much modification does it take to a pair of stock Smith Kit wings in order to install the LE Slats? Wy wings are the longer, square tip versions.
    How much do the slats reduce your cruise speed, and about what would you expect your new stall speed to be?


    Mike Kelly- South Carolina

  23. #23
    Yooper Cub rotto789's Avatar
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    I have the stock exteded square Smith wings and the leading edge slat mounts screw right to the rib and leading edge skin, very simple, they are designed for the piper airfoil and rib spacing, very easy instalation. I don't know the answer to the Stall and cruise speeds, but they claim around 20 mph air speed I assume hanging it on the prop, my super cub is not yet flying hopefully in about a year.
    cheers,
    Rick
    Last edited by rotto789; 02-04-2011 at 03:55 PM.

  24. #24
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    I put them on an extended wing Smith Cub. Easy, screw them on. Slowed the airplane down in cruise according to the owner. She didn't notice any increase in stall speed because she was flying the airplane like she did before the slats. I noticed a big difference at high angles of attack. The biggest thing I noticed is the responsiveness when slow and heavy. the airplane didn't feelheavy and flew very stable in tight slow turns. Sounds like what Palhal noticed. Back Country Cubs sells the kit.

    https://picasaweb.google.com/Piercea...CubFromMexico#
    Steve Pierce

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    Will Rogers

  25. #25

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    My slat mounts bolt to the front spar and come thru the leading edge with a couple of bent angles pop rivited to the inside of the leading edge. My slats were then made to accept my main mounts.

    I can hold altitude at 26 MPH. (empty Wt. 1075 lbs). Never took the slats off to see what cruise speed would be.

    I also have 8' ailerons & flaps with 4 1/2" longer cord with sq. wing tips.

    The complete slat kit weighs just under 20 lbs.

  26. #26

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    How much is involved in installing Leading Edge Slats? Can you do it with the wing currently covered? Where do you buy a "Kit", and about what do they cost? How much of a reduction in cruise speed are you guys seeing?

    Mike

  27. #27
    C-FIJK's Avatar
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    Last edited by C-FIJK; 02-05-2011 at 07:04 PM.

  28. #28
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    I couldn't find the current pricing. They were about $5k a few years ago when I installed them. They just screwed down to the ribs with PK screws. Easy installation.
    Steve Pierce

    Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects.
    Will Rogers

  29. #29
    Crash's Avatar
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    I'll be impressed with slats when they can beat a stock Cubcrafters Sport Cub (Valdez), or even a stock Cub wing. Until then.... the looks, extra weight, and nose "pointed at the moon" to make them work, do nothing for me.

    Crash
    Last edited by Crash; 02-07-2011 at 10:36 PM.
    Likes jwmusgrove liked this post

  30. #30
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    Crash - how about a slow speed (like real slow), tight turn, little bit cross controlled, in a wind competition? At altitude so the loser gets to live. Slots/slats vs. stock wing or stock wing with vgs.

    Sure, all the good pilots don't get cross controlled, not even a little bit, especially when they are slow and maneuvering, that is except for all of the good pilots that got killed when they were slow and maneuvering, close to the ground, with a little wind, and maybe just maybe a little cross controlled (nah, they couldn't have been crossed, they were good pilots).

    Sure, sure, training wheels....and by way of comparison, back in the day cars didn't have seat belts. Now they do because we found out that you might survive better in a crash with one - but good drivers don't need seat belts because they never crash, well hardly ever, I mean almost never.....

    PS: If this post seems a little cryptic or disjointed its because Crash and I go back on this subject so bear with us. Crash, I think I see some German artillery on that hill over there.....
    "You are the Gray Rider who would not make peace with the Blue Coats, you may go in Peace." - Ten Bears

    Gunny

  31. #31
    Crash's Avatar
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    Gunny

    The slats / slots discussion remind me of this...

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ug75diEyiA0

    A Super Cub's most redeeming value is STOL. If it doesn't get you off the ground quicker, or land slower / shorter, it's just extra weight!

    Crash

  32. #32

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    I cross control my SQ-2 all the time to see something under my nose quickly. It will not drop a wing.

    In the German flight manual for the Fieseler Storch (with slats) It says when flying close to the ground to use rudder only for manuvering so you will keep the wings level for max lift.

    I did airshows with my Storch at 800 ft doing 360 degree square corner left turns which was full left rudder and full right aileron and my SQ-2 will do the same.

    Slats may be one of the most expensive mods for the experimental which leaves alot of owners out of the picture.

  33. #33
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    $3K for this set with about 10 hours on them. PM me for the owners contact info.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Steve Pierce

    Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects.
    Will Rogers

  34. #34
    5 Rivers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crash View Post
    I'll be impressed with slats when they can beat a stock Cubcrafters Sport Cub (Valdez), or even a stock Cub wing. Until then.... the looks, extra weight, and nose "pointed at the moon" to make them work, do nothing for me.

    Crash

    Crash, you put a whole moose in a CC Sport Cub and come follow me around in a SQ2, if you can!

  35. #35

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    Until you have flown with a set of slats you do not know what you are talking about.

    Safer than a stock wing any day.

    L

  36. #36
    Skycop's Avatar
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    It's amazing how the banter wavers away from the original posted question...

  37. #37
    aktango58's Avatar
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    Steve,

    I did not realize that 94CC was exp.!

    (haha)
    I don't know where you've been me lad, but I see you won first Prize!

  38. #38

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    regardless of whether people think this is a worthwhile mod or not, lets go back to the original question. is it possible to fit a slat on stock cub wing with round wing tips? and for those of you with drooping ailerons, are they recommend and are they effective without slats? i know it would make a lot of lift in the back of the wing and probably tip the nose down so you could see as well as go slow.

  39. #39
    Dave Calkins's Avatar
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    Slats are a hoot to fly! They are not the all-time answer to every mission, and I doubt a Cessna would be a meaningful use for them, but anyone who has really wrung-out a slatted Cub would never tell you they aren't cool, or fun, or worth having!!!! Never! Ever! Never, ever, ever, ever, ever!

    Slats would still work excellent on a round-tip wing, in my opinion.

    Droop Ailerons. Droops work great to give better slow-flight performance on an unslatted wing, but again, are not the answer to every mission. The only kind to have on a Cub are selectable for zero droop versus flap if that's what the pilot wants.

    My personal experience using Wayne Mackey's slat kit with drooped ailerons (20 degrees) is that when the droops are selected at Minimum Controlable Airspeed, the nose drops 10 degrees with zero other changes.......i.e. Bobby is right, the change in lift-center-of-pressure drops the nose and you can see over the nose better.

    The droops come at a price, adverse yaw with aileron commands, but roll spoilers work very well to give roll authority ALL back.

    DAVE

  40. #40
    Crash's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Pierce View Post
    $3K for this set with about 10 hours on them. PM me for the owners contact info.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Why is he taking them off after only 10 hours of flight time?

    And yes, I have flown a slotted winged Cub. Fun to screw around in, but it didn't get off the ground any better or land any shorter then my stock wing. My point is, why spend the money or add the extra weight? Not really seeing them "spank" everything in organized competition either.

    Safer, I've never felt un-safe doing steep turns in my Cub. But to each his own. If you feel you need them, go for it. Just some friendly banter here.

    Take care,

    Crash

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