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Thread: Wheel ski design

  1. #1
    jimboflying's Avatar
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    Wheel ski design

    If you could have a new retractable wheel ski designed for your experimental Cub what features would you like to have in that design?
    Likes NC2252M liked this post

  2. #2
    mvivion's Avatar
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    Just buy a set of Rosti Fernandez 8001 skis. I really don't think you could improve on their performance or weight.

    Two problems with them: They are not currently STCd on the Cub, but if you're experimental who cares?

    and: They are expensive.

    Why re-invent the wheel?

    MTV

  3. #3
    8856Charlie's Avatar
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    I am currently building a fernandez style experimental wheel ski all carbon, electric pump 850 tire. should have the first set mounted and rigged within a month. first ski is built and building # 2 today and thursday. Its a big ski 10 sf per ski but light. first ski without plastic, yoke or pump is 14# Plastic is 3# pump 7# yoke 3# so each ski should come out under 30#.

  4. #4
    courierguy's Avatar
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    Anybody heard of a way to have brakes while on skis? Seriously....I don't "want to re-invent the wheel", but has it been done, and if so how? A few ways come to mind, ala Fred Flintstone's foot powered car, I suppose a big johnson type bar activating some kind of snow grabbing device would be a design start. Anybody know if this has been tried lets hear about it.

  5. #5
    StewartB
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    Novak ski brakes. STC'd for Landes Airglas straight skis.

    Very effective on ice. Marginally effective on hard pack. Ineffective on soft snow, but brakes are rarely needed on soft snow.


  6. #6

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    MTV wrote: Just buy a set of Rosti Fernandez 8001 skis. I really don't think you could improve on their performance or weight.

    Two problems with them: They are not currently STCd on the Cub, but if you're experimental who cares?

    Mike, I have been in Europe last week and it seems that the STC is in progress for the Cub. - However I don't have any good news about the problem # 2.

    Cheers, Martin

  7. #7
    SpainCub's Avatar
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    Fernandez skis on an interesting cub.
    I have a set of ERCM skis that I am hopping to try, but I can´t find a set of rigging manual for them. I was hopping to get some training for Ski flying this year, but not been able to find the manuals. I plan to rebuild and paint the skis in the meantime, and I will try to pay with Autocad and a laser scanner to see if I can generate plans for the ERCM skis. I believe they are made of Titanium and weight is about 55#s. Not sure how that compares to the Fernandez skis, but I least I have them

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    Ask him how he certified them on that cub? What does it cost to fly with these people? Where in Alps?

  9. #9
    SpainCub's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RAC cubs View Post
    What does it cost to fly with these people? Where in Alps?
    Rate is somewhere in the 120-140€/h. They are located in Switzerland, it´s about a 30 min flight to Mnt. Bianco (Mnt. Blanc) from the lake.

  10. #10

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    www.gletscherflug.ch most in german,some in engish,my dream have time to enjoy alps ,my other half is a german hill billy as they call her.

  11. #11

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    Post Skis ERCEM

    We fly on our Piper PA18/150 from many years without any problem. If you want more details of skis ERCEM (drawing), write me.

    Good fly

    Glaciers ]

  12. #12
    SpainCub's Avatar
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    Thank you, you have a PM from we

  13. #13
    Bugs66's Avatar
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    I'll take a set of plans or an affordable kit! The skiis I have seen cost more than some floats!

  14. #14

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    are fernandez skis STC' d for pa-18?

  15. #15
    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    I would like to build a set of wheel penetration skis that will go with the Goodyear 26" tires. Just something simple. How about wood covered with fiberglass?
    N1PA

  16. #16
    courierguy's Avatar
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    Check out the Datum's, experimental only. Very robust, I can't break 'em, been trying. Not sure about the kit, but mine (2000 lb gross) were around 5K.

    I have to post this I guess: Due to a mis wiring by me, I had double the amp rating breaker, so when one ski got in a bind when retracting (huge chuink of ice, going to ski mode after taxiing out of my hangar) the industrial linear actuator overloaded instead of simply popping the breaker way before overload, again, MY screwup since resolved. Even mis wired it took many, many cycles to have this happen. I took off, flew to my destination about 30 miles away, hoping they still had a bit of snow left, nope all gone, so I chose to set her down on the grass along the runway, I knew that would be no problem, as I had already slid off of snow onto grass a few times in the past.

    After concluding my business at the airport, got in, full throttle, nothing. So.... about 10 minutes with 2 other helpers with a pickup we stealed enough snow that was piled up close by to give me a 35' long ski way. While that wasn't of course long enough to launch, it was long enough to build up a head of steam, and once on the grass (even over the muddy ruts left by the pickup) I continued to accelerate and lift off in the usual fashion.

    Replacement of the actuator took 10 minutes, rewiring under the panel to the proper breaker configeration a bit longer (like most of a day), problem solved.

  17. #17
    Bugs66's Avatar
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    Haven't seen much action on this thread lately. Seems you could take extra large snowboards (maybe double up per side) and come up with a set of wheel skiis for experimental.

  18. #18

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    I`m building a set of these for my experimental supercub.

    12v electric actuators

    I will post a video of the building process when i`m done

    Frenchy

    Click image for larger version. 

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  19. #19
    irishfield's Avatar
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    Yah.. they'll work great Frenchy.. but you'll be a lot happier if you make that tailwheel retract!

  20. #20
    courierguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frenchy View Post
    I`m building a set of these for my experimental supercub.

    12v electric actuators

    I will post a video of the building process when i`m done

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Today I'm re-installing my electric Datum skis http://www.datumair.com/(non cert) for my third season of winter flying, they are holding up great. The electric concept is pretty simple, it is the powerful relatively new style permanent magnet linear actuators that make them possible. Lots of power in a small reliable package. Good hard surface operation on the tires and lots of surface area on the snow. Good to see your project Frenchy, I look forward to the finished project pictures.
    Last edited by courierguy; 12-05-2011 at 11:47 AM.

  21. #21
    Bugs66's Avatar
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    Frenchy, very cool! Would appreciate what you can share. I could see a set of those working for me!

    For you wheel/ski experts, what does the mini tailwheel do for you, benefits?
    Last edited by Bugs66; 12-05-2011 at 12:09 PM.

  22. #22
    irishfield's Avatar
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    Here's a shot of the ones we've been building here for over a decade. Frenchy's are very similar (as are flightlites and many others). As I noted above, Frenchy, if you do some mods and make that tailwheel retract you'll be a MUCH happier camper. Ours deploy the tail wheel during the last inch or so of plate retract.

    Click image for larger version. 

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  23. #23
    mvivion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bugs66 View Post
    Frenchy, very cool! Would appreciate what you can share. I could see a set of those working for me!

    For you wheel/ski experts, what does the mini tailwheel do for you, benefits?
    The "mini tailwheel" keeps the tail of the ski from dragging on pavement/gravel/etc when the wheels are down. As Irishfield notes, however, those things sticking down when on snow create an INCREDIBLE amount of drag.

    I too would strongly recommend that the tailwheels be made retractable.

    MTV

  24. #24
    Bugs66's Avatar
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    Thanks. Is that drag not beneficial on landing for shorter stopping? Like an ice brake? For takeoff, not ideal but perhaps not an issue for a STOL type plane such as Cub?

  25. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by irishfield View Post
    Yah.. they'll work great Frenchy.. but you'll be a lot happier if you make that tailwheel retract!
    Here in Rimouski(Quebec) the owner of the jigs i will use to built mine, he has build 2 sets an one pair of skis has the retract on that small rear wheel an he told me he doesn`t really see any difference between the 2 (the drag is very low on this small wheel)

    Frenchy

  26. #26
    irishfield's Avatar
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    You get into some real wet snow and you'll find out that isn't so Frenchy !

  27. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by irishfield View Post
    You get into some real wet snow and you'll find out that isn't so Frenchy !
    I will go a small roller skate wheel and if it`s of a real problem it will be easy to modifie and go retrack, i like the way you did yours, thanks.

    Frenchy

  28. #28

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    here i go



    Frenchy

  29. #29
    aktango58's Avatar
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    Most snow conditions the tail wheel is no issue, but worse than a good slush is a crust that the ski floats on, and the tailwheel digs in and has to break snow every inch forward...
    I don't know where you've been me lad, but I see you won first Prize!

  30. #30
    Tim's Avatar
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    Frenchy, very cool. You're very talented

  31. #31
    AntiCub's Avatar
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    I got to see a set of the new Airglass wheel skis with the sliding plate. Very nice looking set-up. Can't wait to get a report back on how they perform.

    Phil

  32. #32

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    Phil,
    I have a set that I will trade for Federal 2200's in a second. Who needs two more tail wheels on the back of the skis that make turning all the more difficult. Who needs skis that fly 13.5 degrees nose up with wheels down. Who needs a up & down light system that gives the wrong information. Who needs the plate slide gides that fail in a year of use.
    Sandy

  33. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by arcticairalaska View Post
    Phil,
    I have a set that I will trade for Federal 2200's in a second. Who needs two more tail wheels on the back of the skis that make turning all the more difficult. Who needs skis that fly 13.5 degrees nose up with wheels down. Who needs a up & down light system that gives the wrong information. Who needs the plate slide gides that fail in a year of use.
    Hi Sandy,

    I will work on a system that will shorten the rear cables when the plate slide in(wheel down) , i won`t need the small wheels in the back and at the same time will lower the front of the skis. I agree with you( up or down) can be confusing( what`s up,ski or wheel),but my switch(12v actuators with limit switchs)) will have 2 positions SKIS or WHEELS(no more confusion). 12V actuator only weigh 3pounds each and no oil to mess with.Experimental only of course!

    Claude

  34. #34
    aktango58's Avatar
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    Love the 'John Deere press'

    Sandy,

    have you used these skis, or is your post from proto type testing reports?
    I don't know where you've been me lad, but I see you won first Prize!

  35. #35

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    I am on my second year working these skis in a 135 operation. The lights have never worked properly, That is not a problem in the day light which we have precious little this time of year. I am on my 3rd pump and they are trying to come up with a fix on the lights. I just need a wheels us, wheels down light. I am trying to keep the system the same as we all learned when we were flying complex aircraft. Positive rate gear up. That way my pilots know that gear up means the wheels are up and gear down the wheels are down. I know the wheels don't move but I don't want pilot confused on non standard gear light indicators.
    Sandy

  36. #36

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    Frenchy,
    I like your design. I have 4000's on my 206 and the main problem I have had with them is that there is no strength between the tunnels. I taxied over a small piece of ice with a 206 with 90 gal of jet fuel in the back. I felt something was wrong as the aircraft did not want to continue smoothly during my taxi. I stopped the aircraft and found the outside tunnel on the right ski was crumpled as the weight came up on the out side of the ski. I have taxied over way worst things with my C-3600's and C-2200's and never had such a thing happen.
    Sandy

  37. #37
    mvivion's Avatar
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    Sandy,

    Interesting comments on the Landes skis. Hopefully, they'll figure this stuff all out.

    MTV

  38. #38
    jimboflying's Avatar
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    Frenchy,

    Are there any drawings available for these skiis? What metal thickness is used?

  39. #39
    aktango58's Avatar
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    A snowmobile boggie wheel works good as a tailwheel also...
    I don't know where you've been me lad, but I see you won first Prize!

  40. #40
    TirolCub's Avatar
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    Check this website out rf-skis.com or contact snowbirdxx@aol.com, these guys should hold an STC for Cubs. It was reported this year in a European Aviation Magazine (http://www.aerokurier.de/de/general-...ssen.39018.htm)

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