A few, hopefully fresh, super-cub hints if you want them.

Hi.

We have been putting a few people through our cub-course and doing a bunch of bi-annuals and figured I would share a few items. Hopefully, it will help one or two of us.

First, I would like to point out that if you do not do a proper pre-flight and runup, you will eventually pay for it. This area is the first defense in stopping a problem before it gets taken with you to the field. It is rare to see a proper preflight. I have seen a few instances where there wasn't a control check or a mag check. There was a case where a set of Bose headsets cleaned up a rough mag because he could not hear it. (Hope fully I can set back me being my own worst enemy and don't wreck my own aircraft, Roger?)

2nd. If your cub starts bouncing on takeoff, put it back on the ground and use some of that 300 feet to get enough speed to actually fly, or stop. Yanking the thing of in ground effect when you have the room to get to good flying speed can make this happen: The pitch increases as with the flap drag. The airplane slows and sinks back on the runway. Then the pilot pulls back harder from the inevitable bounce. This will go on under full power until you stop or run off the runway, or until you drop the flaps, plant it on the runway until you have quality flying speed then go. If the take off is so short that you need to be doing this please consider cutting the load in 1/2.

3rd. Leaning. If you lean on takeoff, you can get a lean condition that will make you lose power. Try this on for size. We leaned for best power but did not make sure we were a little on the rich side. As we bounced down the runway two things took place. One, bouncing leaned us out a little bit and two, accelerating ram air flow leaned us out a little more. We were too lean to begin with is what it all came down to.

4th. Trim the airplane forward on takeoff. Most of the guys that do it perform a little better in the light aircraft, both in the water and on land. A side note is that most of the 180-185 guys that horse the tail off the ground have a little more control issue than by simply trimming the aircraft forward (nose down). In this way the tail will raise itself off the ground then pushing hard on the yoke.


Lastly, for the guys that do wheel landings. Be careful with a little tailwind and good brakes. Maybe a little downhill. With 30 gallons(180lbs.) of gas behind the spar in the wing tanks being accelerated ahead of the cg, it could be enough to throw your aircraft on it nose.

Hope it helps,
Artic Wikle
Artic's Air Academy
907-746-2290

Re: A few, hopefully fresh, super-cub hints if you want them

articfox said:

do a proper pre-flight

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I'm guilty of doing an incomplete preflight, missing some loose screws on the belly inspection panel back by the tailwheel, and having the panel peel back in flight. Makes a very efficient speed brake. Provides lots for folks to talk about when landing at a fly-in.

Really no excuse for it, and Artic's advice is worth repeating.

Eric

I always liked performing a pre-flight inspection. Guess I like the smell of 100LL when I test the fuel. I always use a check list. I know that we have all done many pre-flight inspections but I like having the peace of mind I get from the check list. Really just a habit I picked up. The one thing that I have always done is a good run up. I always get a visual on the fuel or stick my tanks. I'm not a high time pilot and don't know as much as I hope to someday.

James

one of my ~near future apps is going to be a USEFUL preflight one, with pictures that takes you around and shows what you really need to look for....

see most people absolutely wasting their time looking to see if the aileron has fallen off yet, and if it has a propeller..... just plain foolishness....

also one like it for pre-buy/annual.. checklist and all with examples pictures of what to look for at each point....

I will go out tomorrow and try a bounced takeoff. So far I have not seen one, and I usually lift off in the 3-point attitude. As I remember (I no longer do them, because an engine failure would be sudden death) the full flaps full power takeoff has you going "straight up" - no bounce involved - although I suppose forward stick could produce one.

You should post your written preflight - I have never seen one for a Cub, although a very sharp NASA test pilot once told me to always check fluids first, before the walk-around. I do that!

I'm sorry Bob, I probably should have clarified myself. I have check lists for run of the mill aircraft like Diamond DA20 Katana,172,152,172RG,Piper Warrior and the like. I don't have a checklist for the Supercub. I am new to the Supercub and am still trying to learn about them.

James

Good advice. I assume I will see you in a few weeks in Valdez.

Re: A few, hopefully fresh, super-cub hints if you want them

articfox said:

Hopefully, it will help one or two of us.

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Thanks, good reminders, all.
T'would be a GoodThing to have a comprehensive Cub Checklist 'eh?
Maybe a new thread that we can all add to.
I'll get right on it...

Logan

Would love to see a good checklist for the supercub. If you are going to get right on it, can't wait to see it posted here. I am sure there has to be something I am missing in pre-flight, just not sure what it is !! If you need help with the list I am sure aktango could show up with a pad of sticky notes :lol: :lol:

I'll have to get them from Miss Daisy! :lol:


But is that not a preflight? walk around and read the notes on the plane? Worked for SJ.


It is always good to be reminded about doing good preflight, but what about a post flight???

We got a little delayed yesturday due to the plane facing partially up the hill, (read cliff), tail down a bit , and the lower ski doing it's best to plow a furrow.

After the digging, (shovel in for preflight?), pulling back and sideways, turning and more of the same , I took off down hill. It was sunny, warm and snow was great, just parking issues were to blame

So once back at base, I took a long, good look at the axles, and attach fittings to be positive that we did not get something lose or crack a weld with all the side stress. One might forget before they fly the next time....

dalec said:

If you are going to get right on it, can't wait to see it posted here.

No, not my creation, (I'm a noob) but I did plant a seed for the "cherry tree" that we can pick what we like for our basket!

If you need help with the list I am sure aktango could show up

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I am afraid of that. If not useful, it'll be funny!!

pre flight

Here is one I threw together

1. Check Oil Level
2. Check wing bolts, pins, and aileron/flap movement
3. Check tail pins, flying wires, and elevator/rudder
4. Check Fuel for water
5. Check brake bolts and tires
6. Seat Belts on
7. Door closed & locked
8. Altimeter set
9. Fuel on
10. Fuel Mix Rich
11. Crack Throttle open
12. Battery Master on
13 Left Mag on
14. Trim set
15. Prime 3 times and lock primer
16. Clear Prop
17. Foot brakes on
18. Start engine/ mags on both
19. Radio on
20. Check aileron, flap, and elevator movement
21. Check for oil pressure
22. Listen for wind direction and wx conditions
23. Listen for other traffic
24. Broadcast taxiing and intentions
25. Run up, checking mags and carb heat
26. Set flaps

I would add, don't do 360 degree turns at low altitude. They aren't just unecessary, they can be deadly, have been deadly, and have taken many advanced, high time skilled pilots by surprise.

This isn't new, but really nothing ever is.

Homerrhoid said:

I would add, don't do 360 degree turns at low altitude. They aren't just unecessary, they can be deadly, have been deadly, and have taken many advanced, high time skilled pilots by surprise.

This isn't new, but really nothing ever is.

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If you can't do any degrees of a turn at any altitude you probably shouldn't be allowed to fly in the first place.

citabrickr said:

Homerrhoid said:

I would add, don't do 360 degree turns at low altitude. They aren't just unecessary, they can be deadly, have been deadly, and have taken many advanced, high time skilled pilots by surprise.

This isn't new, but really nothing ever is.

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If you can't do any degrees of a turn at any altitude you probably shouldn't be allowed to fly in the first place.

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Citab... I think that this is referring to the 'moose stall' syndrome. Maybe you should read the previous thread on that, it would help you understand the contex of the statement.


Other preflight items

Check gear attach tabs for cracks, play on gear legs

Brake pad wear

Breake peddle movement

condition of prop

condition of primer lines (they crack, giving you a lean cylender)

Leaky exhaust from cracks?

Preflighting an aircraft that has been tied down for a week or more, out of your sight, and subject to who knows what by misc. factors is one thing. Jumping back in a plane you flew in the evening before, and hangared next to your house, for the 6 or 7 th. flight of the week, it gets harder, for me, anyway to maintain vigilance. I'm sure I'm not the only one to slack off when making frequent flights, "hell it flew fine yesterday or this morning" is a sneaky thing.

NOT finding ANY anomolies in years of pre flighting is another subtle problem, not that I wish I'd find something about to fall off, but at least it would remind me why we do it. Post flight inspections are not a bad idea either, and at least the hurry to go fly is not a factor.

Agree 100% as I see the same thing. I think it is mostly bad habits and the are very hard to break. Mike I would love to see a pre buy check list! Fly safely John

aktango58 said:

citabrickr said:

Homerrhoid said:

I would add, don't do 360 degree turns at low altitude. They aren't just unecessary, they can be deadly, have been deadly, and have taken many advanced, high time skilled pilots by surprise.

This isn't new, but really nothing ever is.

Click to expand...

If you can't do any degrees of a turn at any altitude you probably shouldn't be allowed to fly in the first place.

Click to expand...

Citab... I think that this is referring to the 'moose stall' syndrome. Maybe you should read the previous thread on that, it would help you understand the contex of the statement.

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I understand it completely and stand by my original statement 100%, if you don't maintain situational awareness to the level required to not stall the plane in a turn, at any altitude then you need a lot more practice or training. There is no "syndrome" other than poor piloting technique.

Citabr...
just to pull your chain
Glad you weren't my instructor, you sound like a hardass!

One might have all the training/experience/hours to make him a very copmpetent pilot with excellent "piloting technique" but stuff happens. More than enough news of very experienced pilots nosing in because of a moment's lapse in attention, or a bit of an unexpected gust, or whatever might happen while circling low/slow.

I think what George is referring to is, the conversation about - instead of circling the moose or whatever banked over @ 60* ...do a low/slow pass, make a 180 & have another look while flying more or less straight so you have more time/options than if your wing takes a dive @ a steep angle.

You are correct, of course, in that if you don't have the feel of your wings (via your butt/hand) & the situational awareness, then you shouldn't be circling that moose/nudist until you have aquired that training/practice/feel.
Anyway, you're both correct, just talking a different angle.

NimpoCub said:

Citabr...
just to pull your chain
Glad you weren't my instructor, you sound like a hardass!

One might have all the training/experience/hours to make him a very copmpetent pilot with excellent "piloting technique" but stuff happens. More than enough news of very experienced pilots nosing in because of a moment's lapse in attention, or a bit of an unexpected gust, or whatever might happen while circling low/slow.

I think what George is referring to is, the conversation about - instead of circling the moose or whatever banked over @ 60* ...do a low/slow pass, make a 180 & have another look while flying more or less straight so you have more time/options than if your wing takes a dive @ a steep angle.

You are correct, of course, in that if you don't have the feel of your wings (via your butt/hand) & the situational awareness, then you shouldn't be circling that moose/nudist until you have aquired that training/practice/feel.
Anyway, you're both correct, just talking a different angle.

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You aren't pulling my chain at all, so far you're one of the few that seems to understand where I was going. I know accidents happen, but your statements are all correct. If you aren't capapble of dividing your attention, or find whatever your object of desire on the ground to be more appealing that keeping control of your plane I don't believe the stall you induce should be considered a "syndrome" or named anything other than a stall.

Well....

I had the so-called "Moose Hunter Stall" occur to me once. Call it poor training/whatever. Recovered well enough (fortunately was at higher elevation than typical) but couldn't think through what had caused that particular stall...so went up to altitude and repeated it.

While it was a bit difficult to repeat without a nearby focal point on the ground, I found that there were indeed a few subtle clues that had to be ignored in order to duplicate the experience.

Since it's entirely possible that I wouldn't possess the mental discipline to concentrate 110% on flying the aircraft rather than being at least somewhat distracted by the new world record moose below......I now use (and will use in the renovated 12) a teardrop viewing approach rather than the tight/steep turns.

This not only provides larger margin on the flying envelope, it is much more comfortable for the passenger-in-chief.

About 4 weeks ago I had an unusual wing drop I can't explain. I was loitering along waiting for another Cub to land. I was about 400' AGL flying straight and level, one notch of flaps and about 60 mph airspeed. I was in fresh air, that is to say I had not been making turns in this area and the other Cub was lower than me the entire time. Without warning my right wing dropped to near vertical. The nose pointed down and I applied full left rudder and power which soon became full power. The ailerons were in the neutral position when it happened. We came out of it OK at maybe 2-300' AGL. Nothing else unusual happened. I do have VG's.

The air was somewhat unstable. We were flying in a river valley landing on a large island and the wind was probably 10-15 MPH and at that point on the river perpendicular to the river valley. Occasional Cats Paws could be seen on the river.

Anybody else experience something like this? A little off-topic but not that much.

NimpoCub said:

you should be circling that moose/nudist until you have aquired that training and practice feeling that nudist.

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Nimpo, always getting to the important subjects. :lol:

I do not think I misunderstood. I just allowed myself a less eloquent way of saying that it is easy to look at accident reports, and think it is all pilots not being competent.

Put 1,000 hours low level in a cub in rough terain. Let the downdraft grab your tail and watch your airspeed go from 60 to zero in a heartbeat on a calm day. You will become a believer.

His Ineloquentness said:

NimpoCub said:

you should be circling that moose/nudist until you have aquired that training and practice feeling that nudist.

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Nimpo, always getting to the important subjects. :lol:

Getting pretty frisky with that edit button 'eh?

I do not think I misunderstood. I just allowed myself a less eloquent way of saying that it is easy

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We know, George. We know. But still luv ya.

I agree with citabrickr 100%!!
I spend hundreds of hours a year avoiding
a stall, while cirlcling animals (360deg turns) low level and slow counting
for the game and fish and Ag spraying.
Yet I read it all the time here how it's to dangerous, try 180 turns
and figure 8's in a work enviroment and see how long you last at that job.
It's not dangerous if you keep your head out of your ass and avoid the stall,
some can and some can't. Am I bullet proof? NO! But I do my best to be.

About the checklist... don't have one, don't need one.
Preflight... sometimes I do, sometimes I don't.
But I know my airplane and how it's maintained.
Have I ever forgotten to do something, YUP!

Got my floats on and going fishing for a week, so flame away
I'll check back later

Brad

Preflight Checklist is one thing.
I came up with another idea on my SuperCub as I had some free space in the panel. When doing short flights or after the (daily) runups I didn´t want to turn the checklist several times until it´s upright. Sometimes then - you know - you don´t use it!

So here is a pic of my pre T/O and inflight checklist:

It seems everyone is taught to conduct a thorough PRE-FLIGHT inspection before every flight. These vary in extent and intensity, of course, and as some have noted, particularly in airplanes with only one pilot flying them and that are kept in hangars, we sometimes get a bit casual with the pre-flight. Not a great idea, frankly, for a number of reasons.

However, one thing we teach here is to conduct at least a minimal POST-FLIGHT inspection on the airplane. Wouldn't it be nice to catch some item that might need attention when you're done flying as opposed to when you are getting ready to go fly? When you have a little time to get it fixed properly, instead of....well, you know.

I think a good post flight walk around is a great idea. Doesn't take that long, and it can really help out in the event that something needs some work.

And, who knows--you might catch something that you missed on the PRE-flight .

MTV

I have a friend who has a friend who found something during the post flight he should have seen/fixed in the preflight ... he had several sleepness nights. What's worse is that he's the guy who always wrote up checklists and raised hell when new pilots weren't trained to use them.
Flying alone in an empty Twin Otter, he left on a one-fuel stop 4.5 hour flight, but accidently failed to latch the oil dipstick on the right engine. One hour into a flight across the middle of nowhere at about 15,000 feet he had to shut it down when the oil pressure started to flucuate.
About eight hours later, he arrived at his original destination. Tools and spares were there, but anyplace he might have landed was far from useful help. By the time he landed he had a suspicion that a loose dipstick was the problem, but all the oil vented overboard went down the outboard side of the right nacelle and he couldn't see oil leaking.
It turned out okay, airplane was safe, engine had no damage ... its the stuff of nightmares.

Here is another one.

Here is another thing I started doing a few years back and boy howdy does it save things. Right before you get in the airplane and after your passenger is loaded, walk about 8 feet out from the right wing and about 8 feet back. From that position you can see the tops of the wings and tank caps, head and under the engine and behind the airplane. It has saved a few caps, kept the students from eating engine covers and the prop from eating anything else. Works good.