O290D2 for my exp. Pa14? Opinions???

I'm looking for some honest advise here regarding an engine for my 2+2/Pa14 exp. A friend of mine is upgrading his pacer to an 0320 so he can have a constant speed prop. He has been helping me with my project since I started (A&P and very highly regarded professional pilot). He has offered me his O290D2, fire wall forward including the prop, exhaust, accessories, carb, etc. The engine runs great; no oil or compression problems. Engine has about 1500 hours on it so about 500 or so before any overhaul issues if everything continues OK. I know there are questions about parts and more power is always nice. I am building as light as I can and am scratch building to keep cost down so I will someday actually have a plane to fly. My flying will be just my wife and I for the most part; maybe a grand kid for a ride sometimes. This will truly be a remove from his plane, pickle it with oil for a couple of years and then bolt it on and fly. A lighter starter, alternator and a wood prop would be added to reduce weight and give the plane a bit more of an edge with the lower power. I was leaning toward an O320 so not a big difference in weight or power. I will be flying out of high desert in California, about 2500'msl. The cost is one of the real selling points as he is giving it to me as a friend. Total cost is $3000 ready to go. So, ....... any thoughts taking a look at the big picture here? Thanks for any and all input.

Marty57

I'd jump on it if I were you. You will spend $5K on an O-320 core unless you fall into another deal. The good thing is it is a known engine. There are good O-290s and there are the oil slingers. A lot of oil slinger in my experience. The O-290-D2 does have a TBO of 1500 hrs but I have seen several with way more hours than that. I would buy it, pickle with some preservative oil and dehydrator plugs and if a better deal comes along or you win the lottery sell it. They are good engines until you have to overhaul one and then only if you need cylinders or piston pins, then it is more $$

Thanks for the input Steve. I just assumed the engine has 1500 towards a 2000 tbo. I'll have to check; my friend simply told me it has another 500 hours before overhaul so maybe it only has 1000 hours on it? Thanks
Marty57

I might be wrong but I have an 0290D-2, I think the TBO is 1400 hrs. I had it overhauled by a good engine shop in Anchorage. I cost more than a 0320 would have. Parts availability was the reason. It is a smooth running engine that worked well on my Pacer. Seems like fuel burn is about 7gal/hr. I saved the engine thinking I might put it on a 135 cub project I bought. Tony

I had a 0290D2 in my 12 several years back...I seem to recall a 1500 hour TBO.

FWIW, I replaced that engine with an 0-320...the performance difference was very notable. The fuel burn difference was something one was aware of, but required double-checking at the gas pump to really establish the difference.

Would probably work in your experimental project, but I wouldn't think you'd be happy if you fill the 14 up with either people, baggage, or fuel.

Good advice so far, thanks. I have some time to decide so looking at all angles here. I've done some more research and found out that the O290D2 case can be machined to accept O320 cylinders. Anybody done that? I've also been told that an O320 crank will fit in the case if needed. As this is exp. I have a lot of latitude here but want to have a good reliable engine at cost I can afford now and latter. I am guessing that with O320 cylinders the HP would be comparable to an O320. The engine currently has compression on all 4 in the low 70's with no oil issues. Any ideas what the cost of this type of machining would cost considering a case needs to be sent out at overhaul regardless to O290D2 or O320. Thoughts? I sure do appreciate the input here.

Thanks,
Marty57

According to Lycoming Service Instruction 1009 AS Recommended Time Between Overhaul Periods the O-290D is 2000 hrs and the D2 is 1500 hrs. http://www.mzp.gov.si/fileadmin/mzp.gov.si/pageuploads/DL_AD_NOTE2006/100_sb_SI1009AS.pdf

Piston pins are over $100 each last I checked for an O-290 but I had them magnafluxed and I deminsionally checked them and reused them. It can cost more to overhaul an O-290 cylinder than buy a new O-320 cylinder.

I have an O-290 D2 and a couple of O-320s laying around. When I have some time I will do some comparisons.

Thanks Steve! I know my up front cost of $3000 for the firewall to prop is good (for the O290D2) but I don't want to get into something that will cost too much down the line. If I can really use new O320 cylinders (with case machined) than that makes it a lot more desirable. That would eliminate the expensive piston pins and the high cylinder overhaul cost. If not a fit, than I need to think through this option vs finding a similar package for a O320 complete. I know the O320 would cost a lot more up front but would it be less in the long run? I'm curious to see what your comparison shows.

Thanks,
Marty57

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T.J. said:

Minor correction;
I don't think the case "needs to be sent out" for overhaul. As I remember, all that is required is a visual inspection and dye check for cracks. An A/P can do that. I don't have my Lycoming book here. It's at the hanger. I will check tomorrow to see if I am correct.

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I don't think you have to send anything "out for overhaul" on the small Lycomings TJ. If you are capable of inspecting and determining the airworthiness of the item. (and have the proper tools, or someone local with the proper tools) to accomplish it.

Just an update on the O290D2 for my exp '14. I helped my friend remove the engine from the Pacer. The plane had just returned from Oshkosh (40 or so hours round trip). I think the oil consumption was 4 quarts over the course of the trip. We first changed out the oil, than filled it with a gallon of preservative oil and 4 quarts of regular oil than ran the engine for ten minutes. Next, compression check: 75/80, 77/80, 74/80, and 70/80. Again, everything looks good. We put a couple of oz of preservative oil in each cylinder than removed the engine and prop. Everything is stored in my shop on a rolling stand and covered. The carb has been removed and also pickled. The only parts I did not get from the fire wall forward package were the primer lines. I have a great starter and generator that I plan on replacing with lighter weight ones. The engine has about 1290 hours since overhaul, 300 since top in 1991. The engine logs show 100 hour inspections from 1957 until 2006. The overhaul was a long time back, in 1967 but has had the 100 hour inspection until 2006. Looks like it was flown about 50-80 hours a year from 1967-2006. Looks like same maintenance outfit from 1976-2006; Dulick & Becker in Enid, Ok. The prop, by the way, is exactly what is called for in the 2+2 plans for a 135hp engine and is in great shape. I also have an exhaust system in great shape. So, I think this will work great to get my plane flying. I don't plan on doing much other than cleaning and painting before I fly it in a couple of years. I do plan on getting the dehydrator plugs even though I live in the desert. It sure was nice to do the removal and pickling my self and to have all logs since new. So, all I need to find is a trashed 0290D2 case that I can use as a jig to build my engine mount and I should be all set. Any thoughts?

Marty57

Since you know the seller, and the engine, this is probably not a big deal but I would be nervous about any engine that had only a grand total of 300 hours since 1991. That's under 17 hours per year, which is not nearly enough to fight corrosion.

Have you looked inside with a borescope to investigate? Others on this site would know better than I what you should inspect. Would the good compressions necessarily indicate all's well in that regard? I don't know for sure but wouldn't think so.

Andrew

Andrew,
I think the compression, oil pressure, and oil consumption says a lot about the health of the engine. I know possible corrosion on the cam might not effect the readings above. But your right that a boreascope would give a nice look at the condition for piece of mind. The good oil pressure and compression tell me that if I split the case and open it up I probably would have a good set of parts to rebuild. The cylinders are the big thing on the o290D2 but with compression good they can likely be cleaned up and used. So, do I just fly it (recommend by the previous owner and another friend; an IA/Cub rebuilder) or open it up, and hope the overhaul is reasonable. Not sure yet but have time to figure it out. Thanks for your input.

Marty57

S2D said:

T.J. said:

Minor correction;
I don't think the case "needs to be sent out" for overhaul. As I remember, all that is required is a visual inspection and dye check for cracks. An A/P can do that. I don't have my Lycoming book here. It's at the hanger. I will check tomorrow to see if I am correct.

Click to expand...

I don't think you have to send anything "out for overhaul" on the small Lycomings TJ. If you are capable of inspecting and determining the airworthiness of the item. (and have the proper tools, or someone local with the proper tools) to accomplish it.

Click to expand...

B and TJ, I agree with you, about the only part needing "outside" attention is the magnaflux, most shops aren't setup for that... Personally, I'm not a "D2" fan, even though Pierce has seen them go past TBO (which is low for a reason), my experience has been the top end is going to need attention way before a "D" or O-320 and as Pierce pointed out, parts are more expensive and harder to find... My buck ninety-five...

Marty I would pull a cyl. and look at the cam, if it looks ok you are good to go, if the cam is bad you know where you stand. I would do it while you still have time to shop for parts if necessary. Tim

TW,
That's kind of my plan. I have a couple of years before the plane flies so time is on my side. I think I would like to get a good look inside to see what things look like. If the cam is bad, than I need to know and start looking for parts. Cost of overhaul is always an issue but the price I paid for this engine gives me some options to really take a good look at what I want to do. The engine was running just great when removed so that is good. Also, having the entire engine vs a core is a big plus. Not having to look for the right carb, or the correct accessory case, etc is a bonus. Buying a core where I don't really know the condition or history is scary, too many horror stories about that great core engine that turned out to have a bad case, crank, etc. So, yeah I would love to just bolt it up and go but I think a good look inside at some point makes sense. I know that the case can be fitted with 0320 cylinders and crank so lots of options for an experimental. I sure appreciate the input here from everybody.
Thanks,
Marty57

O-290-D2

Central Cylinder O'hauled/ yellow tagged my cyls for $350 ea (rings are expensive). You can fix oil slinging problems easily and inexpensively for Exp. use. Fuel use - 6.2 gph in mine (2200 rpm) w/ 52"pitch Sen. DM in PA-18, about 7 gph in Experimental. Know of an O-290-D2 w/O-320 cyls-evidently no problems. !35hp and 150 hp eng mounts for PA-18 are interchangeable. Basically same crank (and other parts) as O-320.

I just read all through the thread
proper cylinder/piston break in, very interesting read. It got me thinking about my situation. When I finish building my exp.14, I will need to do some run up work to check everything out on the engine install. Than, some slow taxi testing followed by some high speed taxi runs, followed by the first flight. So, a bunch of ground runs followed by the first flight. After reading the proper cylinder/piston break in thread I realized that the type of engine running I just outlined would not be very good on an engine just out of overhaul or top overhaul unless it had been run on a test stand. So, in my case or other exp. first flights with fresh metal under the cowl; what do you do? I could simply slip off a cylinder to look at my cam and if OK, do my initial runs and taxi's without as much concern as on new cylinders. But, if I decide to replace rings or do a top, than what? Always seeking to learn and that is what I love about supercub.org!!!!
Marty57

Re: O-290-D2

wlt said:

Central Cylinder O'hauled/ yellow tagged my cyls for $350 ea (rings are expensive). You can fix oil slinging problems easily and inexpensively for Exp. use. Fuel use - 6.2 gph in mine (2200 rpm) w/ 52"pitch Sen. DM in PA-18, about 7 gph in Experimental. Know of an O-290-D2 w/O-320 cyls-evidently no problems. !35hp and 150 hp eng mounts for PA-18 are interchangeable. Basically same crank (and other parts) as O-320.

Click to expand...

Could You elaborate on the easy fix for exp.use?Thanks.

TW said:

Marty I would pull a cyl. and look at the cam, if it looks ok you are good to go, if the cam is bad you know where you stand. I would do it while you still have time to shop for parts if necessary. Tim

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Since the O-290 has that breather hole in the front of the case, could one access thru that hole well enough to get a look at the cam and lifters w/ a borescope?