mixing different aeroshell oils

[garyh]

Got this question ?
have 150 hrs. smoh on c90-12 engine, about 25 hrs. ago converted oil to aeroshell 15w-50 multigrade from aeroshell w80 plus. have 2-3 qts. of the w80 left over that i would like to use up and want to know if i can safely mix the two oils in warmer weather conditions ?

[cubunltd]

Yes you can.

John

[garyh]

Thanks john !

[cubdriver2]

Some of us who are cheapo, only run the 15-50 during the cold months, the 100 and the 80 are 20 bucks a case cheaper, so I'd be buy in more of the 80, Springs acomin.

Glenn

[DW]

I have found that when I run the 15/50 I use more oil so I run 100 year round.

[AIRWOLF]

To be a certified aircraft it has to be compatible with all other aircraft oils, so you can mix any aircraft oil regardless of brand or weight.

[fadec]

How many Phillips XC20W50 people do we have here?

[irishfield]

How many Phillips XC20W50 people do we have here?

But depends on what airplane.

I run my O-320 in my Rebel on it and go about 12 hours per quart on chrome cylinders. Have never had any issues running the stuff for the last 14 years. My J3-C65 sees nothing but straight 80W Shell... was what was in it when I got it and felt no reason to change as only flown summers. Two customer airplanes... O-320 and O-360 both run Shell 100W as summer floats only. I won't put Shell 15W50 in an airplane period. I've seen numerous logs from aircraft I've bought for resale that showed a switch to 15W50 at some point and then shortly after notes of cylinder work to combat high oil consumption. Then continue to put the same oil in and still see high oil consumption.. a switch to Phillips 20W50 or a straight shell fixed that "need" for cylinder work almost instantly I've found.

If the original poster wants to run Shell... I'd just stick with that 80W and preheat WELL on colder days. My 900W electric heater in the cowl exit left running over night with a moving blanket on top = 120F oil temp at start up.

[PilotMikeTx]

Shell Aviation says their oils are all compatible but if you mix an oil with an additive with one without, you reduce the effectiveness of the additive (duh). Not an issue if you're just trying make it a few hours to oil change. But if you want to keep the antiwear additive properties of the 15w50, you should add PLUS oil (W80PLUS). The multigrade has the same antiwear additive package as the PLUS oils. The Plus satisfies the additive requirement of the Lycoming AD.

I ran 15w50 in my C-170 (C-145) because I thought I wanted the semi-synthetic properties. It's not cold enough here to warrant a seasonal change. That slippery s*^% found every pore to seep out of. I went from having a leak-free engine to having to wipe the cowling, firewall and belly after every flight. Switched to W100Plus after I found that it had the same antiwear additives as the multigrade, plus it had a favorable writeup in Aviation Consumer. Some people claim that the phosphorous in the antiwear additives will leach metal (brass?) from bearings, so they just stick with the plain AD oil.

Or as the second poster said, "Yes."

[Steve Pierce]

Shell Aviation says their oils are all compatible but if you mix an oil with an additive with one without, you reduce the effectiveness of the additive (duh). Not an issue if you're just trying make it a few hours to oil change. But if you want to keep the antiwear additive properties of the 15w50, you should add PLUS oil (W80PLUS). The multigrade has the same antiwear additive package as the PLUS oils. The Plus satisfies the additive requirement of the Lycoming AD.

I ran 15w50 in my C-170 (C-145) because I thought I wanted the semi-synthetic properties. It's not cold enough here to warrant a seasonal change. That slippery s*^% found every pore to seep out of. I went from having a leak-free engine to having to wipe the cowling, firewall and belly after every flight. Switched to W100Plus after I found that it had the same antiwear additives as the multigrade, plus it had a favorable writeup in Aviation Consumer. Some people claim that the phosphorous in the antiwear additives will leach metal (brass?) from bearings, so they just stick with the plain AD oil.

Or as the second poster said, "Yes."

Had the same leaking problem when using 15w50. Aeroshell enginners said the semi-synthetic properties are thinner and more abt to blow out or leak. Switched to Phillips 20w50 because it is a mineral based multi-grade and run Camguard for the additives.

[irishfield]

Glad I'm not the only one that saw this with 15w50.. thought I was in need of a shrink for a bit with others telling me I was full of sheet.

[mvivion]

There is no doubt that the Aeroshell 15W 50 oil is some runny stuff.

But, if it runs out of your engine, it may be the engine, as opposed to the oil to blame.

I went to ANC once to pick up a C185. The numbnuts who did the maintenance test flight after float install warned me that that sucker must be using a LOT of oil, cause he had to add four quarts... Groan---I asked him which side of the dipstick he'd used to determine that it was low on oil......long pause. Well, he'd put 14 quarts or more in a 12 quart engine. I drained some oil out, but that poor engine spit oil out of every orifice right up to tbo. THAT engine really didn't like Aeroshell 15W 50.

All our airplanes here run 15W 50, and we do not have oil on the bellys, like ever.....and these trainers get thrashed hard. We operate down to -30 F, though we try not to do multiple landings and takeoffs when its that cold. But these poor engines are constantly doing full power followed by idle, followed by full power....etc.

We've got one engine that's at 2300 now since overhaul, and going great. Run on 15W 50 since new.

I've run probably a dozen engines or more on 15W 50 and never had a problem with excessive oil use.

But, as I noted, if there are any seeps in your engine, the 15W 50 will find them.

As to mixing oils, you can mix ANY approved aviation lubricating oil. They are ALL required to be compatible.

For the record, I now use Exxon Elite 20 W 50 oil in my personal plane. Not because my engine spit 15W 50 out (and yes, I did run it for a few years) but because Exxon has some great sales, with free shipping anywhere in the US (including AK) on their oils at OSH and Sun N Fun.

Aeroshell 15W 50 works fine, but if your engine is prone to leaks, it'll find em. Put it in a tight engine, and it's just an oil like any other.

MTV

[Shortwing1]

Here is another vote for Phillips 20W-50 and Camgard. Costs about the same as Aero Shell 15w-50 and provides better protection. The IO 550 in my C205 and also the 0-290 in my Pacer love the combination.

[ebkollin]

I ran 15w50 in my C-170 (C-145) because I thought I wanted the semi-synthetic properties. It's not cold enough here to warrant a seasonal change. That slippery s*^% found every pore to seep out of. I went from having a leak-free engine to having to wipe the cowling, firewall and belly after every flight. Switched to W100Plus after I found that it had the same antiwear additives as the multigrade, plus it had a favorable writeup in Aviation Consumer. Some people claim that the phosphorous in the antiwear additives will leach metal (brass?) from bearings, so they just stick with the plain AD oil.

Or as the second poster said, "Yes."

Actually it is the 50% PAO synthetic base oil in the 15W-50 that causes the leaks in engines. PAO shrinks and hardens seals and shell does not any compensation, like 10% ester base oil, for this. Seals do not have to shrink much to leak.

Ed

[mvivion]

Ed,

If that's the case (and it may well be), why doesn't Aeroshell 15/50 cause leaks in ALL engines it's run in? As noted, we've got at least one engine here that's at well over 2300 now, always run on 15/50, and clean as can be.

Just curious, not trying to start a pissing contest. The Exxon multi grade is also semi synthetic, and seems much less "runny" than the multi grade Aeroshell. More info please....

Sorry for the highly technical terminology

I think the most important thing with ANY of these oils is to use an approved oil AND ASL CamGuard as an additive. I am very impressed with that stuff, for a number of reasons.

MTV

[WindOnHisNose]

"Here is another vote for Phillips 20W-50 and Camgard. Costs about the same as Aero Shell 15w-50 and provides better protection"....ditto what Shortwing1 said. Our local engine rebuild guru, Darrel Bolduc, swears by this. I run it in my supercub and CT210.

Randy

[ebkollin]

Ed,

If that's the case (and it may well be), why doesn't Aeroshell 15/50 cause leaks in ALL engines it's run in? As noted, we've got at least one engine here that's at well over 2300 now, always run on 15/50, and clean as can be.MTV

Good question. There are two reasons for this, the first is PAO does not cause as many leakage problems when starting with new flexible seals and the second is it depends on the seal composition, some shrink more than others. The most common problem is that once seals set with heat (and a mineral based oil) AND THEN one hits them with PAO oils they will shrink enough to weep, even with compensating esters in the formulation.

Just curious, not trying to start a pissing contest. The Exxon multi grade is also semi synthetic, and seems much less "runny" than the multi grade Aeroshell. More info please....

Sorry for the highly technical terminology

I think the most important thing with ANY of these oils is to use an approved oil AND ASL CamGuard as an additive. I am very impressed with that stuff, for a number of reasons.

MTV

The Exxon Elite has only 26% PAO, vs 50% for the Shell, and does not have nearly the seal problems.

Camguard has seal conditioners that mitigate the hardening of seals due to age or chemical assault.

I am glad you like Camguard.

Regards,

Ed

[Steve Pierce]

Ed, My Dad met you at Sun& Fun a couple of years ago after your forum. He is a retired engineer and you have to prove everything to him. After your forum and conversation afterwords he was convinced of the attributes of Cam Guard and conveyed them to me. I talked to Gregg at length and became a dealer for it. During our annual restoration seminar here in Graham my Dad started talking about Cam Guard and shortly their after my entire first shipment was gone. I borescope every engine I maintain and have seen no corrosion and it seems to have stopped leaks in my Dad's engine and my own. After having torn down many engines due to failures due to corrosion and some where I have found corrosion that was unknown prior to disassembly I think that any preventive measures you can take are worth while and think your product along with regular oil changes is the best and most cost effective thing a person can do for the longevity of their engine. Thanks for all your efforts.

[mvivion]

Ed,

That makes sense, thanks. Our engines start right off on 15-50 Aeroshell, which, with your explanation would explain why they don't seem to have any problems with it.

Thanks for your clear and concise response.

MTV

[ebkollin]

Ed, My Dad met you at Sun& Fun a couple of years ago after your forum. He is a retired engineer and you have to prove everything to him. After your forum and conversation afterwords he was convinced of the attributes of Cam Guard and conveyed them to me. I talked to Gregg at length and became a dealer for it. During our annual restoration seminar here in Graham my Dad started talking about Cam Guard and shortly their after my entire first shipment was gone. I borescope every engine I maintain and have seen no corrosion and it seems to have stopped leaks in my Dad's engine and my own. After having torn down many engines due to failures due to corrosion and some where I have found corrosion that was unknown prior to disassembly I think that any preventive measures you can take are worth while and think your product along with regular oil changes is the best and most cost effective thing a person can do for the longevity of their engine. Thanks for all your efforts.

Thanks and I'm glad I passed the dad test.

Ed

[ebkollin]

Ed,

That makes sense, thanks. Our engines start right off on 15-50 Aeroshell, which, with your explanation would explain why they don't seem to have any problems with it.

Thanks for your clear and concise response.

MTV

You are welcome.

Ed

[Clint Hinds]

Had the same leaking problem when using 15w50. Aeroshell enginners said the semi-synthetic properties are thinner and more abt to blow out or leak. Switched to Phillips 20w50 because it is a mineral based multi-grade and run Camguard for the additives.

Going down to Texas to fly my Cub back here to AK next month (third week April 21'), it's had W100 plus since overhaul (roughly 650 hours), and fresh oil change with 1.5 hours on it, same oil. I was wanting to add the AS 15w50 as needed on the way up so I'd be a little thinner for cold mornings by the time I reach the northern states and legs through Canada. Plan on preheating as needed but, not sure I'll always have time to preheat as thoroughly as I'd like, just want to help the engine out as much as possible, I think I've got a good one and want to keep it that way. Saw on the Aeroshell website (among other places) that they are compatible with each other. Was just about to order some and have shipped to Texas before reading this thread. I see above that most all, regardless of mfg. "should" be compatible?? I have NO leaks, would you guys use the Phillips 20w50 instead under these circumstances? Thanks, C
PS, apologies if my question's answered below, only read to this post of Steve's, I'll go finish now

[cubdrvr]

How many Phillips XC20W50 people do we have here?

20W50 plus Camguard for years. Best combo there is IMO.

[labrador_cub]

another vote for 20W50 , I used to run 15W50 but last time I went to order it I realized the case size from AC spruce ( cant buy oil locally) was 6 quart's and the shipping cost per case was same for the 20w50 for 12 quarts, price is different now go figure, but after running it my oil consumption went down so I continue to use it. plus I like the little bottle extension they give you with the case, its a nice bonus! I didn't have the leaking problem with the 15w50 though I will say, my engine stays pretty dry.

On another note and this Probably has more to do with the practice then the 15w50 oil , during my time in flight school I flew a c152 with a O235. school wanted us to have 6 quarts which is max all the time, I have friend that runs his 0320 at 10 quarts to , and that engine hated 6 quarts, within 2 hrs it was down a quart with a oily belly. talked with the person who ferried it to the school and same report, with 5 quarts it would hardly use any.

[Crash, Jr.]

If you like 20W50 with camguard check out their new 20W50 Victory oil. It's pretty much the normal Phillips 20W50 but with the camguard blended in from the factory and for only $10 a case more. Been running it for a oil change and seems to work great and doesn't seep out as much as normal 20W50

[Scooter7779h]

If you like 20W50 with camguard check out their new 20W50 Victory oil. It's pretty much the normal Phillips 20W50 but with the camguard blended in from the factory and for only $10 a case more. Been running it for a oil change and seems to work great and doesn't seep out as much as normal 20W50

I’ve switched to it. So much simpler.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[stewartb]

My understanding is that Victory is the Phillips equivalent of Aeroshell’s Plus oils. Phillips advertises Victory as having Lycoming’s scuff additive, like anyone in aviation is still in need of that. To say either brand is equal to Camguard is a pretty big stretch. Camguard tested Aeroshell Plus oils. The test results are easy to find on their website.

[Clint Hinds]

Thanks for all the great info! LC, for what it's worth I agree, I'm as green as they come, but with 6.5 qts and up in this 0320, steep turns, stalls, bouncy grass strip landings, seems to burp from CCV, oily belly. Been trying to maintain 5.5-5.75 and all has been good. I've ordered the P 20w-50 and camguard from spruce to use as needed on the way up. Easy to remember the ratio too, 50:1 two stroke is 1.6oz per gallon, camguard is 1.6oz per qt. , makes it easy thanks again guys! C

[G44]

Glad I'm not the only one that saw this with 15w50.. thought I was in need of a shrink for a bit with others telling me I was full of sheet.

You are not the only one who has seen this. Nope, you are not full of sheeeet.

Kurt