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Thread: J3 shoulder harness attach points

  1. #1

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    J3 shoulder harness attach points

    Where is the best place to attach the shoulder harness in a J3 for the for the front seat?

    Thanks for the help.

  2. #2

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    There is not a GOOD place.

    The brand "W" STC puts a clamp on the rear spar carry through, just waiting to gash your head open and leaving the harnesses hanging right in your face.

    The Kosola STC attaches to the cluster at the left rear of the overhead "V" with a single belt.

    Neither are ideal. Take your pick.

    John Scott
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  3. #3
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    I like the Kosola STC. It mounts the harness to a machined block that clamps over a tube at a stout cluster. It is a bit pricey though.





    Steve Pierce

    Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects.
    Will Rogers
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  4. #4

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    I have my Air Force 4-pt seatbelts mounted like the Kosolo - never, ever a problem with or without a front seat passenger. My personal next step will be a crotch strap - still thinking about it.

    I hate inertial reels. They were ok in the jets, but I have never seen a light plane inertial reel that I liked.

  5. #5
    Backcast's Avatar
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    Doesn't F Atlee Dodge sell a clamp that stretches across the top V brace?
    Tedd
    "Long Live Cowboys, and God Bless their Horses"

  6. #6
    Chuck-Fairfax's Avatar
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    I installed the Wag-Aero front belt as shown below. Their idea, also shown in Cub Clues, of having it right over your head made no sense, as John Scott said.


    My son and another pilot passenger have had no comfort problems with it off-set like this. I think it is better than a single belt, but don't really know.


    I have since moved it to the right side, as shown here, because I normally look forward along the left side more than the right; this gives less restriction to my forward vision.


    Your mileage may vary: there was a long thread on this on j3-Cub.com a while back.
    Chuck Shaw[img][/img][img][/img]
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  7. #7

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    Really nice photos. I note that Wag Aero got approval for a smaller bolt. Their first STC shoulder harness came with an AN-6 and a piece of steel plate that had to have come from a scrapped battleship. If you do the math, an AN-3 will break right after the tube has crumpled beyond recognition. I guess Piper did the math when it used coat hangars for the lap belts.

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    Thanks for the info and the pics. Very helpful. I assumed that a Y belt would need to have the attach point centered. From what I have read on other threads here there is no need to have an STC for shoulder harness install.?

    Thanks again

    David

  9. #9
    Chuck-Fairfax's Avatar
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    David,
    Note in my second photo mine is a "Y" shoulder harness. The offset does bring one side closer to the neck than the other, but not enough to bother either of the men who have flown with it.

    Correct, you do not need an STC for front seat shoulder harnesses on aircraft built prior to July 19, 1978, and on rear seat for aircraft built before December 13, 1986. FAA Policy Statement Number ACE-00-23.561-01 covers all this. The FAA thinking is that about anything is better than no shoulder harness. However, if you replace the seat belt, which I had to do, that belt must be an approved belt.
    Here is the link to the FAA site copy of the document.
    http://www.faa.gov/aircraft/gen_av/h...lderpolicy.pdf
    Chuck Shaw

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    Alex Clark's Avatar
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    Mine are Atlee Dodge

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    Gordon Misch's Avatar
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    Alex, I'm looking at your swing-up left window - could you please post a pic (or describe) your latching mechanism and the catch to hold it open?

    Hope your back's improving???
    Gordon

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    My SPOT: tinyurl.com/N4328M (case sensitive)

  12. #12

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    Yeah - and let's have a report on how the breeze is with that window open? I originally thought that would be a really hot idea, but then got the opportunity to fly rear seat with both doors open. Almost lost my headset and glasses - on the first takeoff. There really is a spiral around the fuselage from that prop, and at high power and high angles of attack it is a bit like a tornado. Never noticed it in a biplane, but watch out in a Cub.
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  13. #13
    SJ's Avatar
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    Any new thoughts on minimally invasive installation of J3 shoulder harnesses?

    sj
    "Often Mistaken, but Never in Doubt"
    ------------------------------------------

  14. #14

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    The old methods, above, are the best.

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    Crash, Jr.'s Avatar
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    Yes please. I need to do a rear seat harness and looking for ideas as to minimize fabric work.

  16. #16
    SJ's Avatar
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    "Often Mistaken, but Never in Doubt"
    ------------------------------------------

  17. #17
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    I used brand "W" for the front seat but got an 8110 to tack weld the clamp so that I could use a clevis pin in place of the bolt. Then, when flying solo, you could pull the shoulder harness out and stow it so that it was not in your line of sight.
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  18. #18

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    The brand W attaches to the center of the rear spar carrythrough. See posts above. Ours are located to the side like "longwinglover" above, and when solo we don't even see them.

    Inertia reels have their place, but in front all you need is snug.

    Also note how heavy the Wag thing is - AN-6 bolt? On an .032 tube?

  19. #19
    Crash, Jr.'s Avatar
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    It's a good point but at least the Wag bracket looks pretty minimalist. The Atlee one is a massive bracket for such a simple installation.

    Now I'm really torn. I like the Wag seat belt setup and it's inexpensive but it would have to be left pretty loose in order to lean forward to get to the trim and carb heat. Pretty much necessitates an inertia reel. Not that I have anything against an inertia reel necessarily except the cost and having a big reel in the baggage area. The univair harness kit looks like the ticket then but the belt ends look like they're in need of modification to work with the wire loop seat belt attachments in a J3.

    Hmm...decisions...

  20. #20

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    I don’t remember where I got mine, but they are Hooker harness Y type attached by welding a tab and using AN4 bolt. Left cluster for front harness, middle of diagonal tube for back seater. Works fine. I’m Experimental.
    Click image for larger version. 

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  21. #21
    hotrod180's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crash, Jr. View Post
    ... I like the Wag seat belt setup and it's inexpensive but it would have to be left pretty loose in order to lean forward to get to the trim and carb heat. Pretty much necessitates an inertia reel. Not that I have anything against an inertia reel necessarily except the cost and having a big reel in the baggage area....
    Dunno about the attach points, but Cub Crafters sells what seems to be a reasonably price inertia reel set-up in 2 lengths.

    27" Shoulder Harness, Inertia Reel w/lap belt for PA-18 (cubcrafters.com)

    38" Shoulder Harness Inertia Reel and Lap Belt for PA-18 (cubcrafters.com)
    Cessna Skywagon-- accept no substitute!

  22. #22
    WhiskeyMike's Avatar
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    J_3 Shoulder harness

    Quote Originally Posted by bob turner View Post
    The old methods, above, are the best.
    You might find CAA Manual 8 on line. It has the recommended shoulder harness attach methods for Ag planes. You should attach at clusters on the main frame sides. In Restricted category anyways, we would wrap plastic coated 1/8" cable around the rear spar attach clusters on each side, and I would criss cross the straps to keep them nicely in place while wearing them. Strongest method I could find. While you're at it, make sure the seat belt is attached to the frame as well.

  23. #23
    cubdriver2's Avatar
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    The Wag and CC belts are a pain to put on. I wish they would switch to plug in like Scientific Pacific uses on jets

    Glenn
    "Optimism is going after Moby Dick in a rowboat and taking the tartar sauce with you!"

  24. #24

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    Agree. There are apparently four ways to attempt connection - I always get it right on the fourth attempt. Our J3s use the old Army Air Corps buckles with hammered fabric loops. Easy-peezy. Decathlon has Silver Parachute - just like Hooker - also easy.

  25. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by cubdriver2 View Post
    The Wag and CC belts are a pain to put on. I wish they would switch to plug in like Scientific Pacific uses on jets
    I've flown with several different types of seat belt including thousands of hours with plug in type. I have no trouble putting on and fastening the CC inertia reel harness. It only goes one way.

    Pull shoulder harness off the reel with no twist. Top shoulder strap over right shoulder with no twist, bottom shoulder strap over left shoulder with no twist, right lap strap on thigh. Then right strap on buckle tongue with no twist, left strap on buckle tongue with no twist, hold the 3 parts together with right hand. Bring up the left strap then crunch down and back in the seat to make enough slack to fasten, then click on the left side. All done. It takes less time than the G3X takes to boot.

    Now if you have to make it slacker once you have it on, then it's a problem. The webbing is locked so tight in the lap strap buckles that it's almost impossible to move unless the belt is slack.

  26. #26
    cubdriver2's Avatar
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    Eazy peezy.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    No room for inertia reel in my J4, these are Wagaero shoulder straps that a cut their tabs off and replaced with the SP ends

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Glenn
    Last edited by cubdriver2; 09-13-2021 at 10:17 AM.
    "Optimism is going after Moby Dick in a rowboat and taking the tartar sauce with you!"

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