beginning pilots...

So much discussion is centered around people getting into off airport landings on this site, and what type of plane to get to learn...

I wonder: is the better pilot one that begins with the tricked out cub and can land her in the 300' pea patch, or is the better pilot one that takes the equipment he has available and learns how to get every ounce of performance from it, and instinctively knows what it will and won't do, adding in safety margins to keep the bird, and themselves in one piece.

To that question: can one learn good bush techniques in a Cessna 150, or do they need a 'good bush plane'?

I think you should be the best at flying what you've got. I learned in a Clipper and had 1500 hours in it. Could make that airplane do what I wanted and could put it right where I wanted it. When I got in better equipped airplanes it just helped but I feel I learned to fly the airplane instead of the other way around. Just my opinion, probably because I don't have a Super Cub with all the right equipment. :lol:

There are essentially two very different functions and skill sets to off airport flight operations:

1) Absolutely precise aircraft control. Putting that airplane precisely where you want it, at precisely the speed you want it, every time.

2) Site evaluation. Learning to judge what a potential landing site is REALLY like while flying over it. Length, width, surface composition, etc.

You can accomplish (and should accomplish) number 1) above in any airplane, and at airports. You don't have to go off airport to learn to fly an airplane precisely. And, if you're not flying that airplane precisely, you won't do well in the off airport world.

Site evaluation, on the other hand, has to be done off airport, but there are ways to ease into this skill set as well.

But, the point is, I'd rather land on a gravel bar with someone who has absolutely MASTERED a Cessna 150 than with someone who slops around in a tricked out Cub, any day.

MTV

I think you need to stick with whatever you start with for a good while and learn the airplane. Resist the temptation to bounce around between a 150 a SC a Husky a Bonanza and a whatever. A little time in a lot of airplanes won't make you a good pilot, it'll make you a pilot who has flown several different airplanes. Ain't the same thing. I know I speak heresy here, but the universe does not revolve around off-airport landings and tricked out Cubs. Fly whatever you fly however you are comfortable flying it. Be happy in your work; you'll know when it's time to move on to a new adventure.

mvivion said:

You don't have to go off airport to learn to fly an airplane precisely. And, if you're not flying that airplane precisely, you won't do well in the off airport world.

Click to expand...

Good points all, Mike!

sj

In the old 65 horse champ I learned in you had to learn to fly on the wing, my super cub is easy you can fly on the engine, ram the power in and follow it around. A guy can get lazy if he has that much power at hand. I had a helicopter guy drooling yesterday.............

Become proficient in one aircraft-----and then you can expand on that.

Just my 2 cents: I'm certainly not the best pilot but found my training with three different instructors and five different airplanes very interesting.Started out soloing a 150 H.P. Supercub then went to a 115 H.P. GCBC then a C-150 Airobat a 65H.P. J-3 then finally got my license in a C-172. The differences of opinions on a given subject amazed me and told me --some things kinda gotta be sorted out on your own. Still believe the Supercub is simply the best, but my PA 12 sure does all I need to do and is every bit as fun as the Supercub--Of Course --if I won the lottery-------- :lol: :lol:

Good points from all. My experience was that I learned to fly in dad's Skyhawk. Got my tailwheel endorsement shortly after and dad quickly cut me loose in his 65hp Cub, and I spent as much solo time in it as possible. Learning to fly "on the wing" as previously stated I think prepares one better to fly anything they want later in life. You truly get an "on the job" experience in learning the true nature of aerodynamics that way IMO. To me its all about aerodynamics and energy management, not horsepower. Flying the J-3 early on taught me that. Learning in the underpowered aircraft makes you work for it, same applies in a C-150 or Cherokee 140...etc, you generally have to work for it. A good thing, if you ask me.

The airport my dad ran in Kentucky had a short intersecting runway with about a 75' hill immediately off the end. I cut a swath of grass about 10 feet wide and 600 feet long paralleling that runway and started practicing placing my touchdowns, keeping her straight and getting her stopped quick, all the time having to deal with that hill. I played on that strip for about two years until I moved away after college. It was great experience and a definite confidence builder.

My point is you have to work your way up to doing the shortfield stuff, and if you don't want to expose yourself to the real thing while still training then make it so that you can simulate it. And then start doing it over and over, creating your own varied scenarios to expand your personal limits.

And my other point is at some point you have to take it upon yourself to do these thing by yourself and get right with it in your head. Yes, obviously in many cases an instructor or friend/adviser will show you the ropes. But you have to do it solo at some point and learn for yourself what is happening and how it is being done. Thats when you truly graduate.

What airplane

Be the best you can be. Be precise in every airplane you fly, even if it's just one. Be precise in where ever you fly, even if it's just pavement, or just backcountry.

I think it's best to fly multiple type planes in multiple type landing environments.

On my own time and at work, I try to do overseas, longhaul, shorthaul, a/p on, a/p - a/t off, day, night, winter, tropical, grass, sandbar, 13,000ft, 1000ft, busy, uncrowded, tricycle, tailwheel, floats, (no skis yet) controlled, uncontrolled, power-on, power-off, high altitude, low altitude, fast, slow...you get the point.

Keep learning the corners of everything you fly and get better.