angle of attack indicators
- Thread starter garyh
- Start date
Clay Hammond
Registered User
Rhinebeck NY (NY94)
As a member of the site you can access this article regarding a DIY unit:
http://www.supercub.org/woe/woe0402.php
http://www.supercub.org/woe/woe0402.php
Clay Hammond
Registered User
Rhinebeck NY (NY94)
Speedo
FOUNDER
TN
For most cub flying it doesn't seem like an AOA is practical, unless it's directly in the field of vision during short final. When you're on short final, trying to avoid the trees and plant the mains at the beginning of the landing zone looking out the side window, as you would need to do for the home made AOA linked above, doesn't seem like a great idea. Looking down at the panel doesn't seem like a good idea, either. However, if the AOA were mounted on the top of the cowling, or if an image were projected on a HUD, it might be useful.
If one were flying an Aztec and doing a typical long approach an AOA might be useful.
IMHO
Eric
If one were flying an Aztec and doing a typical long approach an AOA might be useful.
IMHO
Eric
wheat
Registered User
Look up lift reserve indicator or check this out: http://www.liftreserve.com/Plane.htm
JIm
JIm
FdxLou
BENEFACTOR
Canton, GA
I have the AOA unit in my Dynon D-10A.
I find it pretty useless...like speedo said, too many other things to be looking at outside the cockpit. You should be able to fly a cub my reference to your deck angle as seen over the nose once stabilized on final. It's really pretty simple( I like simple)...nose down, too fast...nose up, too slow...nose level with the horizon, on speed. Try it, you will like it!
I also find my AOA goes from amber to red quickly...and at that it is still flying well in to the red.
Lou
I find it pretty useless...like speedo said, too many other things to be looking at outside the cockpit. You should be able to fly a cub my reference to your deck angle as seen over the nose once stabilized on final. It's really pretty simple( I like simple)...nose down, too fast...nose up, too slow...nose level with the horizon, on speed. Try it, you will like it!
I also find my AOA goes from amber to red quickly...and at that it is still flying well in to the red.
Lou
Bill Ingerson
Registered User
Snohomish Washington
Angle of attack
I flew with Jim Wheat in his yellow supercub on floats. He demonstrated the use of this and it works great. It takes two or three times of stalls at 2000 feet to see where to adjust it right, on the underside of the wing then you lock it down and your set. The dial is mounted on the dash where you can see it well and its nice to know where your at when flying slow. I should have bought your cub Jim that was a nice one.
Bill
I flew with Jim Wheat in his yellow supercub on floats. He demonstrated the use of this and it works great. It takes two or three times of stalls at 2000 feet to see where to adjust it right, on the underside of the wing then you lock it down and your set. The dial is mounted on the dash where you can see it well and its nice to know where your at when flying slow. I should have bought your cub Jim that was a nice one.
Bill
mvivion
SPONSOR
Bozeman,MT
We installed one of these things on a C-185 to evaluate. None of the pilots I talked to who flew the airplane felt that the LRI did anything for them that the seat of their pants didn't do as well or better.
Due to the fact that their "receiver" is mounted well to one side of the centerline on a small single engine airplane, these devices work okay as long as the pilot (and the airflow over the sensor) is perfectly coordinated. This is also true of pitot masts, by the way, and these devices suffer from all the same variables that pitot systems do.
Now, if they were to mount a couple of sensors, one on each wing, and maybe one on the top of the tail, and some sort of averaging computer.....you'd have something like a REAL AOA system.
As it is, this unit is essentially a pitot system attached to an airspeed indicator, which just reads in a different metric.
Paint some "AOA" color ranges on your airspeed instrument, and you'll have about the same thing. Don't believe it?? Take a look at the pitot mast on the Piper low wing airplanes....it is almost identical to the "sensor" mast on these units. Does the same thing, but they CLAIM it's reading AOA. It's not--it's just reading airspeed.
MTV
Due to the fact that their "receiver" is mounted well to one side of the centerline on a small single engine airplane, these devices work okay as long as the pilot (and the airflow over the sensor) is perfectly coordinated. This is also true of pitot masts, by the way, and these devices suffer from all the same variables that pitot systems do.
Now, if they were to mount a couple of sensors, one on each wing, and maybe one on the top of the tail, and some sort of averaging computer.....you'd have something like a REAL AOA system.
As it is, this unit is essentially a pitot system attached to an airspeed indicator, which just reads in a different metric.
Paint some "AOA" color ranges on your airspeed instrument, and you'll have about the same thing. Don't believe it?? Take a look at the pitot mast on the Piper low wing airplanes....it is almost identical to the "sensor" mast on these units. Does the same thing, but they CLAIM it's reading AOA. It's not--it's just reading airspeed.
MTV
GeorgeMandes
Registered User
Homer, Alaska
I fly AOA on several other planes, with real systems, and I am a major AOA fan. That said, we put the AOA sport model into our Cub, and it didn't do anything for me.
When you are working a Cub/Husky at the slowest speeds with power, you may well be below the power off stall speed. The indicator in the Cub was blinking and squawking at you and, frankly, distracting me from flying the plane.
When you are working a Cub/Husky at the slowest speeds with power, you may well be below the power off stall speed. The indicator in the Cub was blinking and squawking at you and, frankly, distracting me from flying the plane.
skywagon8a
MEMBER
SE Mass MA6
I like "seat of the pants" best. I have never looked at anything on the instrument panel once I was in the flair. Couldn't take my eyes away from the outside visual reference, except when doing an autoland in Cat III conditions and never in a Cub. In the 185/180s there is a whistle sound that comes through the fresh air vent that gives a very good angle of attack indication perhaps, with some experimentation, something of this nature could be installed on the Cub? Has anyone installed a fresh air vent in the wing root? The later 180/185s had a aural stall horn that was an angle of attack whistle. It is adjusted by moving a slot in the lower leading edge of the wing.
clouds
Registered User
Litchfield, CT
AOA
At our field we have two new CC on amphibs, two beavers (one on amphibs), a C-172 on amphibs, and my J-5, all with LRI's. The best location is on top of the instrument panel, right in front of your face. That way your peripheral vision picks it up while flying with your eyes focused outside. We have pilots from 100 to 20,000+ hours flying these planes, and to a man we love them.
While we all fancy ourselves as seat-of-the-pants stick-and-rudder guys, the truth is that we have no idea what the real stall speed, Vx or Vy is with varying bank angles, and different weight and c.g. combinations.
Once calibrated, these gizmos let you know exactly what speed to fly wings level or in a 60 degree bank. As you load your plane to the max (or min), at either c.g. limit, and make a max performance turn, you will know what is safe, and you will know your best angle and rate of climb. Even Lindbergh would be otherwise guessing.
Think about this -- takeoff, climb at Vx, bank steeply, and ask yourself what speed you should be holding. What about at max forward or aft c.g., max or min weight? If you can do this seat-of-the-pants, you are the best pilot on this forum and please share your technique.
In reply to MTV, if you think it is just another pitot system, climb at Vx and roll into a bank. You hold your IAS constant of course, but as your bank increases, the LRI will slide toward the red, wanting more speed. You are correct that it is not truly an AOA indicator, but it does give the same information derived from the difference between two pitot sources. It is more accurately indicating potential energy, which for our purpose can be thought of as AOA. One last thing; lose your engine and establish best glide, which is? We have no idea other than the recommended speed. The gadget knows, no matter what your weight or c.g.
At our field we have two new CC on amphibs, two beavers (one on amphibs), a C-172 on amphibs, and my J-5, all with LRI's. The best location is on top of the instrument panel, right in front of your face. That way your peripheral vision picks it up while flying with your eyes focused outside. We have pilots from 100 to 20,000+ hours flying these planes, and to a man we love them.
While we all fancy ourselves as seat-of-the-pants stick-and-rudder guys, the truth is that we have no idea what the real stall speed, Vx or Vy is with varying bank angles, and different weight and c.g. combinations.
Once calibrated, these gizmos let you know exactly what speed to fly wings level or in a 60 degree bank. As you load your plane to the max (or min), at either c.g. limit, and make a max performance turn, you will know what is safe, and you will know your best angle and rate of climb. Even Lindbergh would be otherwise guessing.
Think about this -- takeoff, climb at Vx, bank steeply, and ask yourself what speed you should be holding. What about at max forward or aft c.g., max or min weight? If you can do this seat-of-the-pants, you are the best pilot on this forum and please share your technique.
In reply to MTV, if you think it is just another pitot system, climb at Vx and roll into a bank. You hold your IAS constant of course, but as your bank increases, the LRI will slide toward the red, wanting more speed. You are correct that it is not truly an AOA indicator, but it does give the same information derived from the difference between two pitot sources. It is more accurately indicating potential energy, which for our purpose can be thought of as AOA. One last thing; lose your engine and establish best glide, which is? We have no idea other than the recommended speed. The gadget knows, no matter what your weight or c.g.
GeorgeMandes
Registered User
Homer, Alaska
How long have you had your LRI system and how do you know it is properly calibrated -- the airspeed system in the typical Cub is fairly primitive? Does your LRI work for all flap and gear configurations. With the AOA sport, for example, you only can pick two. Is there heat for the LRI probes? Does the LRI understand the difference between power on and power off stall speeds? How do floats effect best glide? What does the LRI indicate at the slowest approach speeds power on, and are you looking anyway? Does it help you land shorter?
In a jet carrying a bunch of fuel, weight and stall speed vary dramatically and the AOA shines. In the sim, amidst multiple emergencies, we often just fly AOA as there isn't time to continually check speeds. Of course this is a real AOA system, certified on the aircraft, linked to the stick shaker and required for dispatch.
I don't think best glide varies that much for the typical Cub. And, in an engine out, it doesn't take into account wind, so you will still need more than the LRI and have to use the "spot on the window concept" to figure your point of impact. Last time I was at Bell Helicopter, I did an hour of auto rotations with the air speed indicator covered. That reinforced that we don't need to be looking inside the cockpit chasing airspeed in an engine out.
I am a gadget guy, have paid to put the real deal AOA glareshield indexer into a turboprop with out it, use it in the jet every flight but think it is a distraction or superfluous in a Cub/Husky. I put it in our Cub but found it didn't allow me to land shorter, and since I don't want to be at Vx more than a few seconds, all I was left with was best glide which still needs to be adjusted for wind to get you furthest in an engine out.
In a jet carrying a bunch of fuel, weight and stall speed vary dramatically and the AOA shines. In the sim, amidst multiple emergencies, we often just fly AOA as there isn't time to continually check speeds. Of course this is a real AOA system, certified on the aircraft, linked to the stick shaker and required for dispatch.
I don't think best glide varies that much for the typical Cub. And, in an engine out, it doesn't take into account wind, so you will still need more than the LRI and have to use the "spot on the window concept" to figure your point of impact. Last time I was at Bell Helicopter, I did an hour of auto rotations with the air speed indicator covered. That reinforced that we don't need to be looking inside the cockpit chasing airspeed in an engine out.
I am a gadget guy, have paid to put the real deal AOA glareshield indexer into a turboprop with out it, use it in the jet every flight but think it is a distraction or superfluous in a Cub/Husky. I put it in our Cub but found it didn't allow me to land shorter, and since I don't want to be at Vx more than a few seconds, all I was left with was best glide which still needs to be adjusted for wind to get you furthest in an engine out.
skywagon8a
MEMBER
SE Mass MA6
http://www.barkeraircraft.com/AOA_kit.html
It might be worth $54 for the fun of it. I don't doubt that it is a useful tool and when placed within your peripheral vision would be an attention getter.
The B-777 which I was flying before I retired had an angle of attack indicator, but it was not within my peripheral vision when landing, therefor was useless. One doesn't fly that size airplane on the ragged edge. I do not claim to be the best pilot as there is always someone who is better, but I can assure you that every airplane that I have flown, including the 777, my primary landing indicator is my butt. I would be at a loss as to how to explain it to any one.
It might be worth $54 for the fun of it. I don't doubt that it is a useful tool and when placed within your peripheral vision would be an attention getter.
The B-777 which I was flying before I retired had an angle of attack indicator, but it was not within my peripheral vision when landing, therefor was useless. One doesn't fly that size airplane on the ragged edge. I do not claim to be the best pilot as there is always someone who is better, but I can assure you that every airplane that I have flown, including the 777, my primary landing indicator is my butt. I would be at a loss as to how to explain it to any one.
clouds
Registered User
Litchfield, CT
AOA-II
Supposing that subsequent comments may have been aimed at my previous post: About five years of LRI use. You calibrate the LRI yourself per instructions, which is why the manufacturer disclaims liability. They provide good material to do this. Power on, power off, floats, gear up - gear down, slow approach with power, right side up - upside down, one G, four G's -- none matter. Angle of attack is angle of attack. The speed at which you attain that angle of attack changes, which is the whole point.
Is it a huge deal in a cub? Probably not, but my observation is that optimum AOA occurs at varying airspeeds of 5-8mph, depending on c.g., weight and bank angle. If you just want to add this speed anytime you significantly bank, carry a passenger, or have a heavy fuel/gear load, then save your money. Will it help you land shorter? Not if you fly a lot, find calm air, already feel comfortable flying on the edge and you always have a good day.
While I said I'm not a gadget guy, that is in my present life. I have regressed back to my aviation beginnings after a life of using the best of the best. All I have carried back is that GPS and AOA are two elements we mortals cannot consistently assess by ourselves.
Boeing recommends flying the PLI in windshear recovery, which demands maximum performance. PLI is the pitch limit that corresponds to optimum AOA. I trust them.
Hey, don't buy an LRI if you don't believe in it. You'll do fine, but you will never safely wring the max out of your plane. As a parting shot, if the ball is in the middle and the LRI in the green, you have solved a major cause of fatal accidents (about one a day in the U.S.).
Supposing that subsequent comments may have been aimed at my previous post: About five years of LRI use. You calibrate the LRI yourself per instructions, which is why the manufacturer disclaims liability. They provide good material to do this. Power on, power off, floats, gear up - gear down, slow approach with power, right side up - upside down, one G, four G's -- none matter. Angle of attack is angle of attack. The speed at which you attain that angle of attack changes, which is the whole point.
Is it a huge deal in a cub? Probably not, but my observation is that optimum AOA occurs at varying airspeeds of 5-8mph, depending on c.g., weight and bank angle. If you just want to add this speed anytime you significantly bank, carry a passenger, or have a heavy fuel/gear load, then save your money. Will it help you land shorter? Not if you fly a lot, find calm air, already feel comfortable flying on the edge and you always have a good day.
While I said I'm not a gadget guy, that is in my present life. I have regressed back to my aviation beginnings after a life of using the best of the best. All I have carried back is that GPS and AOA are two elements we mortals cannot consistently assess by ourselves.
Boeing recommends flying the PLI in windshear recovery, which demands maximum performance. PLI is the pitch limit that corresponds to optimum AOA. I trust them.
Hey, don't buy an LRI if you don't believe in it. You'll do fine, but you will never safely wring the max out of your plane. As a parting shot, if the ball is in the middle and the LRI in the green, you have solved a major cause of fatal accidents (about one a day in the U.S.).
GeorgeMandes
Registered User
Homer, Alaska
You'll do fine, but you will never safely wring the max out of your plane.
Please elaborate on this statement and in particular describe what you define as "safely wring the max out of your plane?"
Please elaborate on this statement and in particular describe what you define as "safely wring the max out of your plane?"
clouds
Registered User
Litchfield, CT
AOA - III
Minimum turn radius, Vx, best glide, landing with turbulence, all with varying weight and c.g. If you always fly with the same configuration, you probably have a good feel for these. If you want to KNOW where the optimum AOA always is, no matter what the variables, then you need more information.
Depends on what you want. The reason I own a cub is for nice handling stick-and-rudder flying, sightseeing in places I sometimes don't belong, and operating out of a field with "challenges". For me, there is comfort in knowing the plane will not bite me for my occasional less than sterling judgement.
Minimum turn radius, Vx, best glide, landing with turbulence, all with varying weight and c.g. If you always fly with the same configuration, you probably have a good feel for these. If you want to KNOW where the optimum AOA always is, no matter what the variables, then you need more information.
Depends on what you want. The reason I own a cub is for nice handling stick-and-rudder flying, sightseeing in places I sometimes don't belong, and operating out of a field with "challenges". For me, there is comfort in knowing the plane will not bite me for my occasional less than sterling judgement.
GeorgeMandes
Registered User
Homer, Alaska
I would be glad to have a discussion on these topics. I don't know what the answer is, but I suspect I will learn something. To disclose my biases, I love AOA and use it, but didn't think it was valuable in the Cub. You got my wife and I pulling out our copy of "Aerodynamics for Naval Aviators," which is always a good thing. I think it is also true that the FAA would absolutely freak out if they thought pilots were using the LRI as a primary instrument in any of your examples, but let's put that aside.
1) Minimum turn radius. As I understand it, a minimum radius turn is executed by pulling at the load limit (3.8 for a Husky) of the aircraft at maneuvering speed. I would be curious how you use the LRI for a minimum radius turn.
2) Best glide. Let's assume at Cub payload weights, best glide varies by a couple of knots. We still need to adjust that for wind, which means LRI in itself doesn't tell us the whole story. Even if you nail all that to the knot, isn't best glide to that theoretical max distance landing spot pretty unlikely? I think the real world in a Cub, with its slow landing speed, is that you pick a spot that you know you will make, maneuver to land into the wind, and show up with extra airspeed that you can dissipate with a slip before touchdown to make sure you have enough energy to flair? Would you be just as well off with a grease pencil mark on the airspeed indicator for best glide.
3) Landing with turbulence. I don't know how stable the LRI is in turbulence, but in a Pilatus PC 12, with the AOA probe out on the wingtip, the AOA indexer bounces so much in turbulence that it is useless. Assuming it works better than the system in the PC 12, it may tell you AOA right now at this bump, but does nothing to predict what AOA will be in a minute. That is why we carry extra airspeed on approach in those conditions and I don't see how the LRI does anything more useful?
clouds
Registered User
Litchfield, CT
AOA - IV
I would be glad to have a discussion on these topics. I don't know what the answer is, but I suspect I will learn something. To disclose my biases, I love AOA and use it, but didn't think it was valuable in the Cub. You got my wife and I pulling out our copy of "Aerodynamics for Naval Aviators," which is always a good thing. I think it is also true that the FAA would absolutely freak out if they thought pilots were using the LRI as a primary instrument in any of your examples, but let's put that aside.
[You are correct. They specifically say the LRI should not be used as a primary instrument. This is not a good forum to challenge them.]
1) Minimum turn radius. As I understand it, a minimum radius turn is executed by pulling at the load limit (3.8 for a Husky) of the aircraft at maneuvering speed. I would be curious how you use the LRI for a minimum radius turn.
[From my fighter days (admittedly pretty ancient, but aerodynamics are aerodynamics), min radius is obtained at the minimum speed at which you can pull the maximum allowable G. We have no way to figure that out in our cubs; no g meter, no test data, and for many of us no way to tell our angle of bank. You could figure these numbers if you did know (and could fly) the bank angle that equated to your G limit, and the minimum speed that equated to that. Given a poor playing hand, all we can say is whatever the angle of bank, the minimum turn radius will be at the speed that equates to optimum angle of attack. If this is important to us, the only way is via an AOA indicator of some sort.]
2) Best glide. Let's assume at Cub payload weights, best glide varies by a couple of knots. We still need to adjust that for wind, which means LRI in itself doesn't tell us the whole story. Even if you nail all that to the knot, isn't best glide to that theoretical max distance landing spot pretty unlikely? I think the real world in a Cub, with its slow landing speed, is that you pick a spot that you know you will make, maneuver to land into the wind, and show up with extra airspeed that you can dissipate with a slip before touchdown to make sure you have enough energy to flair? Would you be just as well off with a grease pencil mark on the airspeed indicator for best glide.
[You are correct, and as I relayed to you via PM, test data in my J-5 shows a min descent rate at 40, max range at 45 and a book number of 60 (the fat tires and bigger engine really hurt me here). I might use the former numbers if in deep do-do obstacle wise, but 60 is a better number since it allows maneuvering, a last minute stretch over the unforseen, and flare capability. (Again, the LRI will refine these numbers for optimum AOA.) I certainly agree that given the option, the answer is always higher-faster and live by the slip.]
3) Landing with turbulence. I don't know how stable the LRI is in turbulence, but in a Pilatus PC 12, with the AOA probe out on the wingtip, the AOA indexer bounces so much in turbulence that it is useless. Assuming it works better than the system in the PC 12, it may tell you AOA right now at this bump, but does nothing to predict what AOA will be in a minute. That is why we carry extra airspeed on approach in those conditions and I don't see how the LRI does anything more useful?
[The LRI is more stable than the IAS, but in no way is rock solid. It does, however, let you know if you are keeping an adequate energy margin. Turbulence related G forces are reflected in the angle of attack.]
[Please don't think I claim the ultimate answer here. The LRI is above "Rube Goldberg" science, but is not the best money can buy. For a few tanks of gas worth of $$, I think it is a good safety addition.]
[/quote]
I would be glad to have a discussion on these topics. I don't know what the answer is, but I suspect I will learn something. To disclose my biases, I love AOA and use it, but didn't think it was valuable in the Cub. You got my wife and I pulling out our copy of "Aerodynamics for Naval Aviators," which is always a good thing. I think it is also true that the FAA would absolutely freak out if they thought pilots were using the LRI as a primary instrument in any of your examples, but let's put that aside.
[You are correct. They specifically say the LRI should not be used as a primary instrument. This is not a good forum to challenge them.]
1) Minimum turn radius. As I understand it, a minimum radius turn is executed by pulling at the load limit (3.8 for a Husky) of the aircraft at maneuvering speed. I would be curious how you use the LRI for a minimum radius turn.
[From my fighter days (admittedly pretty ancient, but aerodynamics are aerodynamics), min radius is obtained at the minimum speed at which you can pull the maximum allowable G. We have no way to figure that out in our cubs; no g meter, no test data, and for many of us no way to tell our angle of bank. You could figure these numbers if you did know (and could fly) the bank angle that equated to your G limit, and the minimum speed that equated to that. Given a poor playing hand, all we can say is whatever the angle of bank, the minimum turn radius will be at the speed that equates to optimum angle of attack. If this is important to us, the only way is via an AOA indicator of some sort.]
2) Best glide. Let's assume at Cub payload weights, best glide varies by a couple of knots. We still need to adjust that for wind, which means LRI in itself doesn't tell us the whole story. Even if you nail all that to the knot, isn't best glide to that theoretical max distance landing spot pretty unlikely? I think the real world in a Cub, with its slow landing speed, is that you pick a spot that you know you will make, maneuver to land into the wind, and show up with extra airspeed that you can dissipate with a slip before touchdown to make sure you have enough energy to flair? Would you be just as well off with a grease pencil mark on the airspeed indicator for best glide.
[You are correct, and as I relayed to you via PM, test data in my J-5 shows a min descent rate at 40, max range at 45 and a book number of 60 (the fat tires and bigger engine really hurt me here). I might use the former numbers if in deep do-do obstacle wise, but 60 is a better number since it allows maneuvering, a last minute stretch over the unforseen, and flare capability. (Again, the LRI will refine these numbers for optimum AOA.) I certainly agree that given the option, the answer is always higher-faster and live by the slip.]
3) Landing with turbulence. I don't know how stable the LRI is in turbulence, but in a Pilatus PC 12, with the AOA probe out on the wingtip, the AOA indexer bounces so much in turbulence that it is useless. Assuming it works better than the system in the PC 12, it may tell you AOA right now at this bump, but does nothing to predict what AOA will be in a minute. That is why we carry extra airspeed on approach in those conditions and I don't see how the LRI does anything more useful?
[The LRI is more stable than the IAS, but in no way is rock solid. It does, however, let you know if you are keeping an adequate energy margin. Turbulence related G forces are reflected in the angle of attack.]
[Please don't think I claim the ultimate answer here. The LRI is above "Rube Goldberg" science, but is not the best money can buy. For a few tanks of gas worth of $$, I think it is a good safety addition.]
[/quote]
Tom3holer
MEMBER
Cape Cod
I know this is an old thread but was wondering what thoughts might be nowadays?
I am looking for a 185 and ran across one with a Reserve lift indicator and have read all I can find but most threads are a bit dated.
The FAA from what I have read is streamlining the AOA installation process in light aircraft.
Any thoughts?
T
I am looking for a 185 and ran across one with a Reserve lift indicator and have read all I can find but most threads are a bit dated.
The FAA from what I have read is streamlining the AOA installation process in light aircraft.
Any thoughts?
T
mvivion
SPONSOR
Bozeman,MT
If you can't figure out how to accomplish minimum turn radius, and minimum approach speed in a Cub via the seat of your pants, you need a little more instruction. You can argue the benefits of these electronic "AOA indicators" all you like. My point is this:
There are different FLAVORS of AOA indicators. Mine happens to be the seat of my pants. Hasn't failed me yet, and doesn't require any electricity to operate. And, best of all, it doesn't cost much nor does it require the blessing of the Friendly Aviation Administration.
Choose the "AOA system" that makes you happy, but please don't suggest that my "AOA system" doesn't work. It works just as well as some bleating horn or flashing light, only it's quieter.
MTV
There are different FLAVORS of AOA indicators. Mine happens to be the seat of my pants. Hasn't failed me yet, and doesn't require any electricity to operate. And, best of all, it doesn't cost much nor does it require the blessing of the Friendly Aviation Administration.
Choose the "AOA system" that makes you happy, but please don't suggest that my "AOA system" doesn't work. It works just as well as some bleating horn or flashing light, only it's quieter.
MTV
They probably make good sense if a pilot is flying different airplanes and never really gets grooved in one. Or when a pilot flies infrequently. Or is distracted. Or has an emergency landing. Or has sinus congestion. The FAA sees them as a way to help reduce stall spin accidents. That's hard to argue with unless you're immune to stall spin accidents. A year or two ago there was an Anchorage FAA meeting where Steve from ACME Cub Training was doing a presentation about AOAs in small GA airplanes. I was sorry to have missed that. I'd have liked to hear what he had to say.
skywagon8a
MEMBER
SE Mass MA6
Thank you MTV, We are on the same page. My personal "angle of attack system" has worked for me in every airplane which I have flown, and is transportable from one plane to another without approvals.
And for clouds comment from post #20 " .... and for many of us no way to tell our angle of bank." There isn't an airplane out there with out an angle of bank indicator unless you are in the clouds with only a partial panel. Don't you ever look out the windshield at the horizon?
And for clouds comment from post #20 " .... and for many of us no way to tell our angle of bank." There isn't an airplane out there with out an angle of bank indicator unless you are in the clouds with only a partial panel. Don't you ever look out the windshield at the horizon?
cubdriver2
FRIEND
upstate NY
mvivion
SPONSOR
