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Wheel penetration skiis

NimpoCub

NimpoCub

Registered User
Nimpo Lake, BC . . . AKA "the Floatplane Capital o
I have a new SCub bud here who wants a pair of wheel penetration (not hyd) skiis and I told him I'd search the SCub calssifieds. I did, and didn't find any.

Can you (yeah, YOU) help to locate a pair?
When he gets back to civilization (& his 'puter) he'll join up here, I was hoping to impress him w/the service here first. :)
 
Logan
I know little to nothing about skis. We don't have a lot of use for them in this part of the world. All I know is that they work better if you keep the curved end up and forward. Since nobody else jumped in, I am considering these for when I move up north again. http://www.trickair.com/
I don't know if they are approved for your airplane yet and they are probably more than you want to spend.
 
"I am considering these for when I move up north again."
Really, Snert!!!!!!!
 
Landis makes a nice wheel-penetration ski for Cubs. It is their model LW2500. Weight is 90 pounds and you must use 8.00x6" tires only.
 
check the aerro ski.

Retract by spring, down with johnson bar. They work great, and you can still get out on a wet snow day.
 
I'm looking to buy a set before the end of the year.
I've narrowed it down between the Aero & Landes.

For those of you who fly them, can you give me some
likes, dislikes and how they perform for you.

I have a set of Aero 3000 straights for the deep stuff up north,
but need some penetrating skis for here in ND.

Kinda short notice, but lets hear what you got and why.

Merry Christmas and Thanks,
Brad
 
I have got wheel penetration skis on both 185 and 180hp supercub. They suck in wet snow. Dry snow they are a good compromise if you must get on tarmac or push into a dry hangar. Getting gas is much easier. Wet snow lots of drag taking off and instant drag when landing on sticky snow. I would not go back to straights as i like the versatility, but straight skis perform much better when wet sticky conditions abound.
 
Brad,

Take your pick, frankly. The Landes penetration skis are without doubt the tougher of those skis. They are PROBABLY also heavier than the Aero 2800 retracts.

The Landes skis also have much more surface area than do the Aero 2800's. They are longer as well, which can be better in rough snow.

If you are buying new, I suspect the Landes skis are going to be cheaper, though the Aero retracts really aren't that bad.

If you're buying used, make sure that the Aero 2800s you buy have the later model rigger arms, which are longer. If you find an older set for sale, with the older arms, you can buy the newer arms from Aero. Don't know what the cost is, but it is well worth doing in any case. The older ones were terrible in any kind of deep snow. I understand the ones with the newer arms are much better in that regard.

If you're buying used, and you find a set of the Landes penetration skis, contact Landes to see if you can get hold of a set of the tailwheels they use on the newer skis. They create a LOT less drag than do the older ones. One trick for getting un-stuck with the Landes penetration skis is to remove the tailwheels from the skis, takeoff, and then put them back on whenever conditions permit. They create a lot more drag than they would appear to. The new style tailwheels are much better, I'm told.

If it matters, the Aeros are probably going to be easier to install/remove, though there's more "stuff" to connect and disconnect. The Landes skis will require some serious jacking or better yet a hoist.

If you plan to be in rough stuff quite a bit, I'd lean toward the Landes skis-they are hell for stout. The Aeros aren't nearly as tough, but...

MTV
 
Mike i have the newer style tailwheels on my cubs landes skis, the 185 has the older big springs and larger tailwheel. Do you know if the older landes skis can be converted to the smaller tail wheels? You seem to indicate it is being done?
 
Brad,

I have Aero skis. I used them on the 90 hp champ and PA-12 trapping. I got the 12 in some overflow :oops: and got stuck. But heck, I needed hip boots the water was so deep on the ice...

I flew the Champ off of 1,400' on a gravel bar one time in the rain with knee deep fresh wet snow, took a couple of passes to get a path nocked down, then she came out.

The same champ I flew continuously off of 970' at the cabins, but groomed the strip for that. Me fuel and 150 lbs was all I could take.

Hands down the ability to lift the tires out is worth the extra $.

Coming into an airport at the end of the day and pulling the release so you can pull up to the pump is great, especially after you just left a lake with wet snow that penetration skis would not work...

If you are really serious but can not decide, if you will pay to ship them I could send you my set to try for a couple of days. They have no rigging as I am in the middle of changeing from normal gear to 3" extended. They require 600x6 tires.

Aero ski also certified them with all the back filled in, and I was/am going to make an emergency plate to slip under the tire for strait skis like my old Schnider had. REAL performance than.

If you want to try them, let me know. I was going to put them on after Jan 18 when I get the doc's ok for lifting 25 lbs.

George
 
Mike,

how much strenght before we break the gear and gear attach fittings? When you do have problems, aluminum is very easy to fix compared to glass, for me anyway.

The new/old arms? are you taking about the attach fittings on the plane? Yes the new ones drop the skis down so zero tire is through, a big difference.

If the ski swing arm is different, I am not aware.

The gear needs to have a fitting welded on the bottom, or be drilled for the bolt on fittings. I think my short gear has the drill holes so you could use thoes.

Or, feel free to make a trip up here, (alaska airlines is easy) and spend a couple hours with me changing to the skis, (I am limited to pushing the hoist button right now), and we could take her out for you to try.
 
You're absolutely right on potential damage. Working skis in rough snow puts more loads into an aircraft's structure than probably any other type of off airport flying there is. Is tougher important? Dunno, never got that far, myself.

You're correct on the attach points vs the arms.

pzink, I know of at least one fellow who's converted a set on a 185 to the new style wheels. He claims an impressive improvement in performance, and he would know. I don't know what he went through to do that, though.

MTV
 
Thanks mike, i will give them a call and see if there is a kit. Possibly some people are just modifying on their own. I have also been told about removing the spring/tailwheels if in a jam on a small strip with adverse conditions. Some say to deflate the tire as well. I was thinking a flat tire may create more drag though by catching slush.
 
Thanks for the reports guys.
That's what I like to hear.

That's a hell of an offer George, much appreciated, but I'll take
your guys word on them. That's good enough for me :wink: .

I can check tmrw on price with Aero, but does anyone know off hand.
Got Landes price off website.

Thanks,
Brad
 
This is pulling it out of my hat, or a lower place... But around $6,000 sticks in my brain!

I happen to have a set of fittings from an Aeronca oleo gear champ that have the lower holes! If you can use them...

FyI: when you need parts or help, refer to T.J. good guy thread to get an idea what the folks there are like...

It is obvious that good character was passed from father to son...
 
I have Aero R2800s. They had been modded with slightly wider plastic before I bought them, I think it helps quite a bit. They are a decent ski if its not a work for a living plane. Last winter we finally had decent powder, and I was happy with the performance on my plane. They are kind of a fred flintstone design, with the lever down, spring up deal, cable releases to the cockpit, and heavy as well. Mine weigh 57 lbs per ski. I had Scheneider penetrations on it before, a big improvement from those. The problem was the mashed potato snow on a 42 degree day. Cold hard conditions they worked ok. There are quite a few sets of R2800 here in Maine on cubs, they all work well on the lighter airplanes. There are a couple used sets for sale local as well, if you have some interest I can check them out for price.

Jim
 
Wide body,

I had AWB hydraulics on the first cub, now Aero. Aero are lighter, less $ and fly well.

For work? well, a little of a pain, but not that bad compared to the weight and cost of the hydraulics...

If I were ordering a set, (assuming use in deep or wet snow), I would ask for the plastic to be wider than the ski, and fill all the back possible. Then I would build the plates mentioned before just because!

Let us know what you do, I might modify mine soon...
 
aktango58 said:
Wide body,

I had AWB hydraulics on the first cub, now Aero. Aero are lighter, less $ and fly well.

For work? well, a little of a pain, but not that bad compared to the weight and cost of the hydraulics...

If I were ordering a set, (assuming use in deep or wet snow), I would ask for the plastic to be wider than the ski, and fill all the back possible. Then I would build the plates mentioned before just because!

Let us know what you do, I might modify mine soon...
Click to expand...

Any chance one of you guys could post some photos of the Aero R2800s? I'm not sure I have ever seen a set. I sold my Airglas L3000s when I left Alaska. Straight skis worked well up there. Now that I can keep the cub in a hangar, I could sure use some decent wheel skis here in N. Idaho. It just keeps snowing, and snowing and.....
 
There are a couple of threads on skis that mention Aero 2800's directly. Do a search and there are pics...

There is also a photo or two of some with the tail wheel put on top of the ski. I can not find the thread this was in, but somewhere on gallerys...
 
I have a set of LW-2500's I bought used at a good price to try them out, I'm very happy with them. I had concerns I thought the same thing that MTV spoke of. After some research the things that fowled landees wheel skis in the past are gone on these. First they are not fiber-glass, they are injected plastic, very strong. The UHMW bottoms are not bolted over the top of the normal bottom. The UHMW is the bottom and is bonded to the plastic shell that makes the ski. The spring steel to the tail wheel is gone also, it now is a little "shopping cart" wheel molding in the tail of the ski. I think there was some mention of them being very heavy, not sure but I think the LW stands for light weight, I don't know what mine weigh but I do know I can pick up the ski with the gear leg attached and put it in the truck while talking with someone so there are very light. The main's must be kept aired up, if left to leak down they squish out and rub on the ski. They are a bit twitchy on hard surfaces not ground loop just side to side as the fore and aft wheels try to track anything they can. They do require 3" gear and need some tabs welded on, best to take them to airglass for it, there are specs for in the paper work. The 3" is only for the borer prop. Anyway I like mine they do not perform like straight skis, none will. They do perform better than I thought they would.
 
I have a set of LW-2500's on my cub, and so far they have performed well. Just as everyone says, the best is with powder snow. I've used them on crust, the kind where the tire will break through now and then, still no real problem. Wet snow is just plain sticky, so you can expect longer takeoffs, but they still performed ok in wet conditions,

Mike
 
I have the LW 2500s on my 150 HP Cub and like them a lot. I am still learning what they will do. Every day is a learning experience. Some days, every landing is a learning experience. The workmanship is great. I bought them new two years ago. About $6,000 installed.
 
Will we ever see or is anyone working on a set of wheel-skis or wheel penetration skis for use with Bushwheels ? All the penetration skis that I've seen create so much drag with the small tire. The bushwheel would seem to be much better at reducing drag at the penetration location.
 
David,

Frankly, I think a bigger tire sticking through the penetration in a ski would make things worse, not better.

My AWB 2500 skis, with 8.50 tires really need longer rigger arms for that size tire. It's amazing how much drag a tire just barely sticking down through the ski bottom creates.

Our old aircraft division modified several sets of AWB 2500 hydraulic skis to fit them to Super Cubs equipped with Goodyear 25 inch Airwheels. Those skis worked okay, because the rigger arms were long enough to pretty much get the tire out of the snow when in skis position.

Frankly, if you're going to penetration skis, I think the manufacturers have already answered your question: Use the smallest tires you can, cause the bigger the tires, the more drag in the snow.

MTV
 
David just wants that cool big tire look! David, I assume the BW's are in the hanger and the skis are on? You could use floats on Vermilion for all the slush on it.
 
My thought is that if you have an inch and a half sticking through the ski, the larger the diameter the less drag there would be. Imagine a 31"er in packed snow vs. an 8.50. No comparison right. Now do the same with it penetrating the ski. Less drag...no ???

Russ,

Skis are on. Been to Red Lake a few times. No slush up there, but plenty of drifts, though not too terribly bad.
 
Got a call into Landes, I was leaning that way at the start.
Both sets sound good and I appreciate all the reports.
The hard rough snow from cold temps and wind we get
in ND seem to favor Landes, more surface area and longer
in length will also help them perform better in deep snow.
Tough to beat Aero's, when you can have just the ski in the
snow though.

Thanks
Brad
 
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